Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Butch5]

I honestly don't think you're a Greek expert and qualified to rewrite our Bible. Why don't you post Scripture. It's not that difficult. I do it all the time.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep, still there! Even the JW's Bible agrees that you're wrong!

I did post Scripture. I posted Scripture where Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. I posted Scripture where the apostles spoke of the end of the aion. And, I posted Scripture where Paul spoke of the end of the aion. But, if you don't accept the words of Jesus, the apostles, and Paul, surely there is no reason to listen to anything I say. It's clear you've chosen to believe your English translators of Jesus, the apostles, and Paul.

 

[kcnalp]

I did post Scripture. I posted Scripture where Jesus spoke of the end of the aion.

Got a link?

I posted Scripture where the apostles spoke of the end of the aion.

Got a link?

And, I posted Scripture where Paul spoke of the end of the aion.

Got a link?

But, if you don't accept the words of Jesus, the apostles, and Paul, surely there is no reason to listen to anything I say. It's clear you've chosen to believe your English translators of Jesus, the apostles, and Paul.

Who told you that you're qualified to rewrite our Bible? Kingdom Hall maybe?

 

[Butch5]

Got a link?

Got a link?

Got a link?

Who told you that you're qualified to rewrite our Bible? Kingdom Hall maybe?

Jesus,
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. (Matt. 13:39-40 KJV)

The apostles,
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Matt. 24:3 KJV)

Paul,
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb. 9:26 KJV)

In each passage the word world is the word aion.

 

[kcnalp]

Jesus,
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. (Matt. 13:39-40 KJV)

Yeah, everlasting fire.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The apostles,
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Matt. 24:3 KJV)

And if you had kept reading:

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Paul, For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb. 9:26 KJV)

In each passage the word world is the word aion.

NONE of that changes the EVERLASTING FIRE! What are you trying to prove? Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

 

[Cooper]

You just described Total Depravity … man being incapable of choosing to do right even when they know what the right thing to do is, using only the power of HUMAN FREE WILL (which is really a will that has been given the freedom by God to follow its’ dark desires into the sin that it craves).

If only God would elect some, from before the foundation of the earth, to be objects of His love and receive grace when they fail and a “helper” (even the Holy Spirit) to create in them both the desire to do right and the ability to persevere in the faith. Oh wait, according to scripture, God did.

Therein lies the reason for the hope that we have within us and the confidence that Christ will lose none of the Saints that the Father has drawn to Him. Those called have been justified and will persevere to glorification … just as the Father planned from the beginning.

We all have freewill, and we have all exercised our freewill from time to time, even to the extent of CHOOSING Christ of our own freewill. So because we have all exercised our freewill and I know I have, sometimes for good and sometimes for ill, does that mean we are all condemned? Just wanting you to think about it. I think it depends on what our freewill choice is, don't you? For myself, I chose Christ, and I hope the way I live my life, what the Bible describes as our works, demonstrates that.

By the way, you say in response to me, that what David and Solomon did, describes total depravity. I doubt that, certainly with regard to David, but Solomon is the epitome of a backslider. If the pair of them were totally depraved then there isn't much hope for the rest of us... or alternatively were they like Judas who was one of the chosen twelve elected for a specific purpose that would fulfil God's plan and purpose for the whole world, and if so, then Judas was ELECTED to play a vital role, the same as Abraham, Noah, Joseph and Moses to name four men who each played a part in fulfilling God's plan and purpose here on earth. Rahab and Mary the mother of Jesus, are two more. These, dare I say at the risk of invoking people's wrath, are the elect of God. We have done nothing that would change the course of history, but they did. As for me, I choose Christ, whose plan it is for people everywhere to become a child of God, but sadly few there are who accept his invitation to follow him.
.

 

[JunChosen]

We all have freewill, and we have all exercised our freewill from time to time,

If we have freewill, why do we need to exercise it?

even to the extent of CHOOSING Christ of our own freewill, so because we have all exercised our freewill and I know I have

Jesus said in John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you!" And In Romans Chapter 3 we read that "there is none righteous no, not one" and "there is none that seeks after God no, not one" [without exception].

If Jesus "have chosen us" and "there is none righteous no, not one that seek after God" How then can we have freewill to choose and seek after God? That's an impossibility!

if David and Solomon were totally depraved, then there isn't much hope for the rest of us...

No! David and Solomon's sins is a different issue. All sins are forgivable, except one!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

No you don't.

Yes I do.

No you don't LOL
This is what you said back in post 469...I take things literally, unless Scripture says otherwise.
Now maybe your definition of literal maybe different than mine? And and, what I am seeing in your posts is that you adlib a lot.
Which is not all that bad but could be an interesting topic.
You plan on taking up your cross and being crucified? Or just carry it around all the time? Literal?
You plan on hating your mother and father? Literal?
You plan on giving away everything you own and walk around with nothing but the shirt on your back? Literal?

Not what makes sense to our own minds

I do run across the concept where if if does not make sense it is of God. I do not agree. What you are suggesting is God intentionally inspired the Bible so it would not be understood or make sense to us. I disagree with that.

People that do not understand the Bible will develop their own religious lingo so they say they understand it, but no one else does.
The Bible was written to be understood. What would be the alternative, religion of confusion. God of infinite wisdom, smart enough to talk to us at our level. Sure there are a few things that might make some scratch their heads but for the most part it is straight forward. But people get started with this home-made religious lingo and it does nothing but cause confusion.

When Hebrews says the law is changed of necessity with the priesthood, then I take it literally to mean that the law of God by Moses was changed to that of Christ, even as the Levitical priesthood was changed to that of Jesus and His saints.

You call this literal? I am not going to get into Hebrews too much with you because Fundamentalism does not have the answers for Hebrews....but Christ was a High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek now where is your literal scripture that says that the Order was changed to Levitical or even Jewish or Christian. Then when was the Mosaic Law changed a scripture that says the word changed to that of Christ.

When Romans says there is no Jew that is outward, and no circumcision that is in the flesh, I take that literal to mean that there are no more outward Jews on earth, and all born of flesh are born into uncircumcision, all nations alike, including the one still calling itself Israel after the flesh. Many don't like that so literally read and concluded, because they like a physical seed of promise to be on earth, so that they can keep their learned prophecies intact that require it.

Romans chapter 2....you read so much into things....no Jew that is outward? Roman 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: The whole of chapter 2 is not about the Jews not existing anymore it is a comparison. You are taking things to an extreme.

The law of sin and death began when God made the 1st commandment and law defining transgression as eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Understand the law of sin and death...it is the Mosaic Law.....but do you have a scripture that specifically says that when God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil....that that was the law of sin and death. exact scripture please.

When the eyes of Adam and Eve were both opened to sin and shame by transgression, they died to God. They were no longer living souls, even as their seed by flesh are born in sin and dead to God: not souls. By flesh we are born as souls alive to sin and flesh, but not living souls alive to God and His righteousness.

A living soul is alive to God with eternal life by the Spirit of God. Souls abiding in sin are dead to God, though they have continued existence beyond the grave.

See this is a personal theology that is not represented in the Bible. Adam and Eve were dead to God? You are not going to find that scripture. Adam and Eve were no longer living souls? You are not going to find that one either.

We are all sons of God in sense but Adam was a created being.

Once again, this 'in sense' is a rationale of the mind, not the true sense of Scripture: They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

We are all creatures created by God in His image physically, but we are not all children and sons of God created in Christ unto good works:

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

In things pertaining to truth of God and eternity of the spiritual things of life, I do not use my own reasoning, but speak and give my sense of Scripture only.

Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
There are differences between Adam and us, I will give you that. But still a discussion. Born again...for salvation...adoption...that is a discussion.

Scripture states Jesus is the 2nd Adam, and the only man on earth to ever be born after the Spirit as was the 1st Adam, and His blood is called after His resurrection incorruptible.

Christ the only man on earth to ever be born after the Spirit....exact scripture please.
His blood is called after His resurrection incorruptible....exact scripture please.
The Greek word used that can mean incorruptible or imperishable, only appear 4 time in the scriptures and never referring to Christ. And of course the phrase "incorruptible blood" does not appear in the scriptures. BLOOD...Christ's blood, that is another topic.

And since Adam died to God by transgression, no longer having the life of God in his soul, then his blood was no longer pure, but corrupted as is the seed and flesh born of that one corrupted blood (Acts 17). And so, I have made a sensible argument, that the 1st Adam's blood was uncorrupted by sin at birth, being born with the Spirit breathed into Him, and the 2nd Adam came from heaven with uncorrupted blood by the Spirit overshadowing the woman.

The 1st Adam transgressed and corrupted himself and his blood, and died to God, and the 2nd Adam did not sin, nor corrupt Himself, but is resurrected with incorruptible blood forever, which blood He commands us to drink indeed, that we may have life in us: His eternal life in His blood.

You have a lot going on with this blood stuff that is of your own invention.
no longer having the life of God in his soul.....I disagree with that.
then his blood was no longer pure, but corrupted as is the seed and flesh born of that one corrupted blood. I disagree with this and God is still referring to it as the holy seed in Ezra 9:2
And again the whole uncorrupted blood or incorruptible blood thing is not in the Bible.

So far it looks like you are using the Bible as a prop to stage your own religion.

I agree with this.
That was the purpose of the commandment in the garden, to try Adam. And so are we also tried in the trial of our faith, not to transgress after the similitude of Adam, but to walk in the steps of the 2nd Adam, choosing to yield ourselves to God and Christ, not to obey the lust of the flesh, but to keep the faith of Jesus and obey His Word only to the end.

You want to call this life a trial? For Christians to follow the way of Christ? I can sign on for that.

 

[Butch5]

Yeah, everlasting fire.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

And if you had kept reading:

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

NONE of that changes the EVERLASTING FIRE! What are you trying to prove? Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

I see why you got banned on the other forum.

 

[kcnalp]

I see why you got banned on the other forum.

Yeah, they didn't like Scripture either.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Grailhunter]

No you don't.

Yes I do.


The former renew the mind in Christ with great profit, and the latter exercise the mind in Scriptural things, with a little profit. Sort of like godliness is profitable in all things, whily bodily exercise profiteth little.

Now as far as the topic of Christ's blood, it isn't like there is a shortage of scriptures on the topic. And that is where the topic should start.
Here is a couple things from the Old Testament.

Genesis 9:4
But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Leviticus 17:11
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.”

Then we get into the New Testament.
Matthew 26:28
“For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”

Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”

John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 1:18
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold.

1 Peter 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

Acts 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Colossians 1:20
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Romans 3:25
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:6
This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1st Corinthians 11:25
In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Revelation 12:11
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

And if you want to dabble with Hebrews a bit...
Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil.

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Hebrews 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:29
How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 13:12
So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.

Hebrews 13:20
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant.

Now I am not opposed to singing a hymn with you about the incorruptible blood of Christ.
I am not oppose to you explaining why you think Christ had incorruptible blood....or that it was because of His blood that He could not sin. I can go with that Christ's blood being incorruptible as unperishable....as in an artifact.

There are things about Christ's blood I believe that are outside of the Bible. But I am not a fundamentalist and I say the source of the belief.
I believe any of the cloths or rags that touched Christ during the Passion had miraculous powers.
I believe in the Veil of Veronica
I believe in the Shroud of Turin
I believe in a few of the Christ artifacts.
But direct biblical support is another thing.

 

[robert derrick]

Now as far as the topic of Christ's blood, it isn't like there is a shortage of scriptures on the topic. And that is where the topic should start.
Here is a couple things from the Old Testament.

Genesis 9:4
But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Leviticus 17:11
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.”

Then we get into the New Testament.
Matthew 26:28
“For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”

Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”

John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 1:18
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold.

1 Peter 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

Acts 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Colossians 1:20
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Romans 3:25
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:6
This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

1st Corinthians 11:25
In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Revelation 12:11
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

And if you want to dabble with Hebrews a bit...
Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil.

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Hebrews 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:29
How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 13:12
So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.

Hebrews 13:20
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant.

Now I am not opposed to singing a hymn with you about the incorruptible blood of Christ.
I am not oppose to you explaining why you think Christ had incorruptible blood....or that it was because of His blood that He could not sin. I can go with that Christ's blood being incorruptible as unperishable....as in an artifact.

There are things about Christ's blood I believe that are outside of the Bible. But I am not a fundamentalist and I say the source of the belief.
I believe any of the cloths or rags that touched Christ during the Passion had miraculous powers.
I believe in the Veil of Veronica
I believe in the Shroud of Turin
I believe in a few of the Christ artifacts.
But direct biblical support is another thing.

I am not oppose to you explaining why you think Christ had incorruptible blood....or that it was because of His blood that He could not sin. I can go with that Christ's blood being incorruptible as unperishable....as in an artifact.

I don't express personal beliefs nor look for artifacts to worship. I only give Scripture, and interpretation as I see it.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

We are not redeemed by something corruptible, but by the precious blood of Jesus: something incorruptible. We are redeemed by the incorruptible blood of Jesus.

If you seriously think Jesus meant drinking of the uncorrupted blood of His physical body, then you think too much of flesh and blood, and don't understand the blood of His resurrected body, of which we all drink inwardly by the Spirit, being His physical body on earth.

God made law that no man was to drink the blood of flesh, for the express purpose of leaving no doubt, that He could not possibly be speaking of His physical flesh and blood, but of His spiritual flesh and blood in the body of His resurrection.

Many were offended at his saying to drink His blood, because they were so carnally minded to think He meant His physical blood before resurrection. Afterward He explained to His disciples that remained, that He was not speaking of His physical flesh and blood, wherein is no profit, but that His words were Spirit and life, so that the blood we drink would be in His resurrected body by Spirit with eternal life.

We are the physical body of Christ on earth in natural bodies, and we drink of His blood by the inner man of the heart as His new creature.

When we are resurrected into His spiritual body, then we will also have His incorruptible blood in us, even as he does now.

Even as we are circumcised inwardly, so we drink His incorruptible blood inwardly.

It is the blood of the Spirit that we drink, wherein is eternal life, and it is the flesh of His Word that we eat, which is the bread from heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't express personal beliefs nor look for artifacts to worship. I only give Scripture, and interpretation as I see it.

Don't go silly on me or you can just talk to someone else, you have in fact not provided one scripture on Christ having incorruptible blood. It would not bother me if He did but the phrase or explanation does not occur in the scriptures.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

We are not redeemed by something corruptible, but by the precious blood of Jesus: something incorruptible. We are redeemed by the incorruptible blood of Jesus.

Trust me when I tell you that you cannot get away with this malarkey with me. That is the Precious blood of Jesus, not incorruptible blood.
At this point you need admit that your belief is not specifically stated in the Bible. You need to save face and explain why you have a belief that Christ's blood in incorruptible. It is ok to have a belief. Maybe the Holy Spirit lead you to believe it? Christ's blood means a lot and thank God for the power of His blood. But that phrase does not occur in the scriptures.

If you seriously think Jesus meant drinking of the uncorrupted blood of His physical body, then you think too much of flesh and blood, and don't understand the blood of His resurrected body, of which we all drink inwardly by the Spirit, being His physical body on earth.

Shame on you! Accuse me of not understanding something that is not in the scriptures? Do you think you have the power to make people believe something that is not there? We are approaching crazy here!

Many were offended at his saying to drink His blood, because they were so carnally minded to think He meant His physical blood before resurrection. Afterward He explained to His disciples that remained, that He was not speaking of His physical flesh and blood, wherein is no profit, but that His words were Spirit and life, so that the blood we drink would be in His resurrected body by Spirit with eternal life.

I fully understand what was going on there, but it still has nothing to do with you trying to insert a phrase in the scriptures that is not there.

We are the physical body of Christ on earth in natural bodies, and we drink of His blood by the inner man of the heart as His new creature.
When we are resurrected into His spiritual body, then we will also have His incorruptible blood in us, even as he does now.
Even as we are circumcised inwardly, so we drink His incorruptible blood inwardly.
It is the blood of the Spirit that we drink, wherein is eternal life, and it is the flesh of His Word that we eat, which is the bread from heaven.

This is all garbage! You have got something going on in your head. How many other meaning and scriptures twists I can only guess. We are done here.

 

[kcnalp]

First off they are David's words and he knew so little about what was really going on.



LOL I am not a Jew inwardly, outwardly, or by religion. Don't get me wrong I was raised with the Jews and love them. I would die for the Jews and Israel. I was proud to defended Israel. But I am not a Jew and Christ said if try to mix the two religions and you will ruin them both.

As far as Christian religions I am very tolerant, I am multi-denominational I just take a stand against evil. The Calvinists that believe God is a monstrous puppet master and just for the sole purpose of edifying themselves. I take a stand against Voodoo which combines witchcraft and Christianity. I take as stand against the Jehovah's Witnesses which deny the deity of Christ. I take a stand against the OSAS crowd the ruins people's lives and leads them to hell. I take a stand against the new denomination which is a social religion that tries to deny the morality of the Bible. I have done battle with evil my whole life and I am good at it.

 

[kcnalp]

I take a stand against the OSAS crowd the ruins people's lives and leads them to hell.

And yet you attack our Bibles like Satan does.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis,

Normally I do not like to interact with such false ideas, but I will demonstrate the falsehood now
Curtis seeks to deny bible teaching of irresistable grace, however me makes a caricature of the teaching showing he does not understand the terms being discussed. Curtis says this;

[Of course I can’t, BECAUSE THERES NO SUCH THING, as I can prove from scripture:
Reformed dogma claims God unconditionally elects to salvation,
that grace is irresistible,
and therefore the Holy Spirit is irresistible.]

Here, Curtis shows no understanding in that irresistable grace or effectual calling is only taught concerning elect sheep coming to saving knowledge of Jesus.
It is NOT speaking of those who resist right into hell. Multitudes resist unto death, but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC.
Here is the actual confessional statement of the teaching;

Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling
1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )


2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )



4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

That the Holy Spirit is resistible destroys irresistible grace.

 

[Curtis]

Adrian Rogers refutes Calvinism:

 

[Iconoclast]

That the Holy Spirit is resistible destroys irresistible grace.

That the Holy Spirit is resistible has nothing to do with it, it shows you are a bit lazy in not trying to understand the biblical teaching.

Hint;
the reprobates are not drawn to Jesus,they resist right into hell.Acts7...you do always resist
The elect are all drawn effectually to Jesus, not one is lost. jn6:37-44,2pet3:9

 

[Cooper]

That the Holy Spirit is resistible has nothing to do with it, it shows you are a bit lazy in not trying to understand the biblical teaching.

Hint;
the reprobates are not drawn to Jesus,they resist right into hell.Acts7...you do always resist
The elect are all drawn effectually to Jesus, not one is lost. jn6:37-44,2pet3:9

I have to say this. I believe salvation is God's free gift to all, pending our acceptance and the elect are those who are chosen to a special work. Sorry to interrupt.
.

 

[Cooper]

And yet you attack our Bibles like Satan does.

I'm not sure if attacking the fallacy of OSAS is attacking the Bible. Adam was not always saved.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have to say this. I believe salvation is God's free gift to all, pending our acceptance and the elect are those who are chosen to a special work. Sorry to interrupt.
.

Hello Cooper,
Election is the work of God the Father giving a multitude of sinners to the Son.
He seeks and saves everyone of them.
Once called to be saints, all elect saints serve God.
The gospel is freely offered to all men who hear it.
A saving response only takes place when the Spirit regenerates a sinner.
No one"accepts" Jesus.
Those elected are made accepted in the Beloved Eph1:6.
Now it is true some are elected to a special calling, as Jer.1:5.....but this did not prevent or hinder his election unto salvation.