Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Iconoclast]

"Cooper,
[Yours is an incoherent mess.]
It might seem that way to you as you do not seem to grasp biblical salvation.

[God’s plan of salvation for mankind.
Step 1: is to believe Jesus Christ is the eternal God, and the gift of our eternal salvation was gained by His vicarious resurrection thereby conquering Satan and death.]

Christus Victor does not address penal substitutionary atonement. Jesus did not die a potential death , but rather a CVovenant death for the elect.

[pStep 2: The risen Christ, our advocate now pleads on our behalf. “So now, if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1Jn 2:1., who is making intercession for us. Rom 8:34; Rom 11:2; Heb 7:25 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:5]

Your attempt to suggest that verses for those elected by the Father, are applied to all mankind are unbiblical and in truth oppose biblical teaching.
[Step 3: Is the Judgement, when we shall have to answer for our own sins.
If at anytime we deny Christ or His finished work on the cross, our salvation is in peril,“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also. 1Jn 2:22-23” for “it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. (Heb 6:4-6)]

Apostates were never saved to begin with. You are using verses that you do not understand.

[About those who wander astray we read:
Our Saviour, Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd will seek those who have wandered away from the fold, but the rebellious ones, who perhaps with the best of intentions, like the Galatians who went back to a work based salvation and the keeping of Old Testament festivals etc., so denying Christ’s redeeming work on the cross, will find their life with Jesus is finished. (Gal 5:4)]


They were never known by God to begin with 1 jn.2:19

 

[Iconoclast]

Rubbish.

The only rubbish here is coming from your keyboard. You are not close to the truth, and each posts manifests your error.

 

[Cooper]

The only rubbish here is coming from your keyboard. You are not close to the truth, and each posts manifests your error.

Sin separates from God.

But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear. Isaiah 59:2

The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. Exodus 32:33

 

[Iconoclast]

Sin separates from God.

But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear. Isaiah 59:2

The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. Exodus 32:33

Those are fine verses but do not make your case at all.

 

[Cooper]

Those are fine verses but do not make your case at all.

Sin came between Adam and God, and God blotted him out.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sin came between Adam and God, and God blotted him out.
.

The bible does not say God blotted him out.
This is a fabricated idea from your carnal mind.
God covered them and gave the first gospel promise to them.Gen3:15
God saves sinners.

 

[Cooper]

The bible does not say God blotted him out.
This is a fabricated idea from your carnal mind.
God covered them and gave the first gospel promise to them.Gen3:15
God saves sinners.

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24 KJV)

He drove out the man. Never to return.

Less of the insults (carnal mind) thank you. Those with a carnal mind are the ones who think they can sin and still be saved. Someone with a pure heart wouldn't be throwing insults around. Repent and be saved.
.

 

[Cooper]

The righteous person that sins shall die. OSAS is false teaching. Ask yourself, "Is a false teacher righteous, or shall they die?"

(24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

(26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Ezekiel 18:24 & 26 KJV

Where does it say, the righteous person who commits iniquity, is always saved?
.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

The righteous person that sins shall die. OSAS is false teaching. Ask yourself, "Is a false teacher righteous, or shall they die?"

Only your understanding is false, nothing more

 

[Iconoclast]

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24 KJV)

He drove out the man. Never to return.

Less of the insults (carnal mind) thank you. Those with a carnal mind are the ones who think they can sin and still be saved. Someone with a pure heart wouldn't be throwing insults around. Repent and be saved.
.

When people do not understand the fall,they have error after error.
Are you claiming now that you do not sin?
You sin everyday my friend my confused friend.
God has saved me so your ungodly accusations are to no effect.
Another day, and more posts showing you do not grasp biblical salvation,but rather a false ,fleshly,counterfeit.

 

[Iconoclast]

Only your understanding is false, nothing more

He offers a false works based salvation and sanctification.There is no gospel in his error.

 

[Cooper]

When people do not understand the fall,they have error after error.
Are you claiming now that you do not sin?
You sin everyday my friend my confused friend.
God has saved me so your ungodly accusations are to no effect.
Another day, and more posts showing you do not grasp biblical salvation,but rather a false ,fleshly,counterfeit.

If I had been an apostle, I would be saying to the other disciples, "let them go, they are not one of us" and of course you are not. Jesus said no man can serve two masters, God and Satan, and Paul said to keep on the narrow road until the end and the crown of glory. You seem to think you are always saved and can do as you like, and that is not true. We need to follow Jesus every step of the way and to live a life that is pleasing to God. There is no room in Christianity for licentiousness and the things of earth, and yes, we should always look to Jesus the Saviour of the world, because without him there is no salvation, and this is why we should always follow in the masters foot steps, and tell Satan "in the name of Jesus Christ, and by his precious blood shed on Calvarys Cross, I command you to get thee behind me Satan."
.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

If I had been an apostle, I would be saying to the other disciples, "let them go, they are not one of us" and of course you are not.

I bet your name would have been Jonah and you liked to swim in the ocean.

 

[Cooper]

I bet your name would have been Jonah and you liked to swim in the ocean.

I would have said yes to the command to go and preach the Gospel first time round, which is what I am doing now, and so would not have got into that awful situation.

Now then, who do you think the elect of God are? They are people like Jonah who God used, his purpose to fulfil.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

If I had been an apostle, I would be saying to the other disciples, "let them go, they are not one of us" and of course you are not. Jesus said no man can serve two masters, God and Satan, and Paul said to keep on the narrow road until the end and the crown of glory. You seem to think you are always saved and can do as you like, and that is not true. We need to follow Jesus every step of the way and to live a life that is pleasing to God. There is no room in Christianity for licentiousness and the things of earth, and yes, we should always look to Jesus the Saviour of the world, because without him there is no salvation, and this is why we should always follow in the masters foot steps, and tell Satan "in the name of Jesus Christ, and by his precious blood shed on Calvarys Cross, I command you to get thee behind me Satan."
.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
Your confusion and claims you know who is saved and who are not continue to put your ignorance on display.
You did not answer the question. DO YOU SIN?

 

[Cooper]

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
Your confusion and claims you know who is saved and who are not continue to put your ignorance on display.
You did not answer the question. DO YOU SIN?

It was Paul who said "they are not one of us," so be careful who you accuse of being Satan. As for me, I answer to God my judge, not men, and he would not ask that.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

It was Paul who said "they are not one of us," so be careful who you accuse of being Satan. As for me, I answer to God my judge, not men, and he would not ask that.
.

No...I am not of you and your false gospel of works.
I love internet clowns...do not know basics but want to share false teaching. No thanks.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Now then, who do you think the elect of God are? They are people like Jonah who God used, his purpose to fulfil.

I'm going to throw one out there and watch. "Hypothetically"....

Lets suppose that before the foundation of the world even...…

God in his infinite knowledge knew that "man" in general would sin, Satan would rebel and so forth. (not a stretch at all for God)

So, he incorporated into the "Genesis Device" the plan for Salvation through His Son along with everything else. ( it was there at the big event, all ready to go and rolled out along with creation)

He made the plan Free but the individual had to "elect" to take it up.

God again in His infinite knowledge knew then "who would be naughty and nice" but even knowing that didn't deviate from the plan.

Some of the specific ones (For reasons known but to God alone) gave them certain preferences ,roles or whatever because He simply knew they would do them. (no other reason)

So, from the first man to the last man, would not those who "elect" to accept Jesus as their Savior be considered the "elect"?

God didn't "elect" them but they "elected" to choose Jesus? (God simply knew it and let it occur naturally)

What's wrong with that theory? (biblically)

 

[Cooper]

I'm going to throw one out there and watch. "Hypothetically"....

Lets suppose that before the foundation of the world even...…

God in his infinite knowledge knew that "man" in general would sin, Satan would rebel and so forth. (not a stretch at all for God)

So, he incorporated into the "Genesis Device" the plan for Salvation through His Son along with everything else. ( it was there at the big event, all ready to go and rolled out along with creation)

He made the plan Free but the individual had to "elect" to take it up.

God again in His infinite knowledge knew then "who would be naughty and nice" but even knowing that didn't deviate from the plan.

Some of the specific ones (For reasons known but to God alone) gave them certain preferences ,roles or whatever because He simply knew they would do them. (no other reason)

So, from the first man to the last man, would not those who "elect" to accept Jesus as their Savior be considered the "elect"?

God didn't "elect" them but they "elected" to choose Jesus? (God simply knew it and let it occur naturally)

What's wrong with that theory? (biblically)

I could go along with that.
God knew man would sin because he gave us freewill, and freewill allows us to choose Christ or to reject Him as we please. We can even change our mind which is backsliding. Also the way we live our life morally is down to us. The offer of salvation is to people everywhere, of every nation and even before the foundation of the earth, God in his foreknowledge knew who would reject his offer of salvation, and who would accept.

Lights out.

 

[robert derrick]

Don't go silly on me or you can just talk to someone else, you have in fact not provided one scripture on Christ having incorruptible blood. It would not bother me if He did but the phrase or explanation does not occur in the scriptures.



Trust me when I tell you that you cannot get away with this malarkey with me. That is the Precious blood of Jesus, not incorruptible blood.
At this point you need admit that your belief is not specifically stated in the Bible. You need to save face and explain why you have a belief that Christ's blood in incorruptible. It is ok to have a belief. Maybe the Holy Spirit lead you to believe it? Christ's blood means a lot and thank God for the power of His blood. But that phrase does not occur in the scriptures.



Shame on you! Accuse me of not understanding something that is not in the scriptures? Do you think you have the power to make people believe something that is not there? We are approaching crazy here!



I fully understand what was going on there, but it still has nothing to do with you trying to insert a phrase in the scriptures that is not there.


This is all garbage! You have got something going on in your head. How many other meaning and scriptures twists I can only guess. We are done here.

you have in fact not provided one scripture on Christ having incorruptible blood.

I did. You choose not to believe it. Which is fine. You don't have to. I will continue to.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

Not redeemed with corruptible things, but with the precious blood of Christ, which must therefore be incorruptible, since it is not corruptible. You don't see that as the obvious sense of the Scripture, then don't. It makes perfect sense to me.

Shame on you! Accuse me of not understanding something that is not in the scriptures? Do you think you have the power to make people believe something that is not there? We are approaching crazy here!

I don't care what yoy believe or don't. That is your business. I only offer Scripture and my sense of it, and look for others to either agree or refute it by Scripture, or by a better reading of Scripture.

You don't agree with my reading, which is obvious to me, then don't. You don't have to throw a hissy fit over it, nor go crazy by it.

This is all garbage! You have got something going on in your head. How many other meaning and scriptures twists I can only guess. We are done here.

You are done, and good riddance. People who just declare something garbage without refuting it, nor offering a better reading of it, are completely useless to me. I like to engage with adults, not little children that cover their ears, because they don't like what they are hearing.