The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!

[Grailhunter]

so we look at the OT looking for Christ in it. the purpose of the scripture is to testify of Him, and that includes

Ya that would be a difficult thing since Yahweh Himself testifies that He is the only God no one like Him. There is no discussion with His Son or the Holy Spirit. Yahweh does not talk or act like a trio in the Old Testament.

 

[theefaith]

Ya that would be a difficult thing since Yahweh Himself testifies that He is the only God no one like Him. There is not discussion with His Son or the Holy Spirit. Yahweh does not talk or act like a trio in the Old Testament.

The trinity is revealed by Christ in the New Testament

 

[theefaith]

explain matt 16:17-19

back ground Isa 22:21-22

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

explain matt 16:17-19

Read verse 16. Its right there in wide open space.

Jesus affirms that in 17 when he says that didn't come from him but from God

and its that foundation (rock ) that Jesus is the living Son of God thats the foundation of the church.

Not some dude named Peter

 

[Josh27]

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The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!

Satan and his angels have ran wild with incorrect definitions of "wine", deceiving a majority of the world into thinking that our HOLY GOD consumed intoxicating beverages, but this is obviously a doctrine of devils - The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol...

In the Bible, BOTH fermented alcoholic wine, AND non-alcoholic grape juice were called "wine" - The Lord Jesus Christ drank and created non-alcoholic grape juice.

"New wine" means freshly squeezed grape juice that hasn't been fermented, and thus contains no alcohol.

The Lord Jesus Christ is not a hypocrite - He would never forbid alcohol, and then drink it himself -- God specifically says NOT TO DRINK ALCOHOLIC WINE, and describes it in detail here:

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Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Proverbs 23:31-35

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Now that you know that you've been lied to by Satan and his angels, I will now show you some scripture talking about "new wine" - unfermented non-alcoholic grape juice straight from the grape cluster.

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Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 65:8

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You have now been informed of the two types of "wine" in the Bible, the forbidden alcoholic fermented grape juice, and the non-alcoholic freshly squeezed grape juice that The Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples drank called "new wine".

Next, I will show you a piece of scripture showing how "new wine" is indeed freshly squeezed non-alcoholic GRAPE JUICE, and not the forbidden fermented alcoholic "WINE" of today.

This is what The Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples drank - NON-ALCOHOLIC JUICE DIRECTLY FROM THE GRAPE.

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And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes: And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.

Genesis 40:10-11

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At this point, anyone with the Holy Spirit of God living inside them should be 100% satisfied that the Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol, but I'll take it even further - why not?

The Bible says to "be sober" many, MANY times - sober means "not under the infuence of intoxicating substances", such as ALCOHOL and PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS.

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Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 5:8

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Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Thessalonians 5:6-8

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It should be noted, that The Lord Jesus Christ was even tempted with an alcoholic beverage at one point, and He refused it - your God is not a hypocrite!

When did this happen?

The Lord Jesus Christ was given an opportunity on the cross to sin, when a sponge of ALCOHOLIC "VINEGAR" (a fermented alcoholic drink popular with the Romans) was given to Him - what did The Lord Jesus Christ do? HE WOULD NOT DRINK IT, BECAUSE HE IS HOLY AND SINLESS, AND DRINKING ANY ALCOHOL WHATSOEVER IS A SIN!!!

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And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

Matthew 27:33-34

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I've wanted to write this for a while now - there is a lot of historical information out there that I could have used, and a few other people have said similar things, but I wanted to prove it by using only the Bible - well, here it is - the Holy Spirit of God has helped me to prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt - no one can ever slander and blasphemy The Lord Jesus Christ in this manner again -- the consumption of alcohol in any amount is a sin -- The Lord Jesus Christ is HOLY, and He NEVER consumed alcohol, AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU...

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And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Isaiah 6:3

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Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter 1:16

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Don't listen to anyone that says anything different than what I have said - most people calling themselves "Christians" are FAKE CHRISTIANS -- they do not have the Holy Spirit of God living inside them -- the Bible warns us about these types of people; please try to remember - only born again Christians are protected from demon possession - if you're talking to someone that's not born again, then it's extremely likely that you're talking to the demons inside them; HARDLY ANYONE IS ACTUALLY BORN AGAIN...

"...having not the Spirit."

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How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude 1:18-19

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I'd like to end this by saying: Even *IF* you're born again - if you consume ANY alcohol, YOU WILL GO TO HELL.

If you still think that the Lord Jesus Christ drank alcohol, and that it's ok for YOU to drink, then it's extremely likely that you're NOT born again in the first place - no born again Christian thinks that the Lord Jesus Christ ever drank alcohol.

If you're not born again, then you're going to go to Hell when you die.

If you ARE Born Again, and you drink alcohol, or you take psychotropic drugs, unless you stop for good, you're going to go to Hell when you die.

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Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

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For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:26-31

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And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:46

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And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 5:9

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Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:21

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Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:20

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Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:4

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Stop sinning, or go to the Lake of Fire...

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If grape juice is stored in a container at ambient room temperature, it is not possible to prevent it from becoming wine.

Using your feelings about fermented wine to state Jesus never consumed alcohol is an error in judgement. God can deliver you from fear into His Wisdom.

 

[post]

Yea, who said he changed her name.

the Author of scripture did.
i.e. God said so.

Genesis 2:23
She shall be called Woman

That's a name. Adam named every living soul apart from himself in the creation ((v. 19)). Naming living souls is kind of his 'thing'

Genesis 3:20
Adam called his wife's name Eve

That's explicitly a name. Now he's already named her, so this is clearly a new name.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

the Author of scripture did.

Genesis 2:23
She shall be called Woman

That's a name. Adam named every living soul apart from himself in the creation.

Genesis 3:20
Adam called his wife's name Eve

That's explicitly a name. Now he's already named her, so this is clearly a new name.

No, just another in a long list of your errors

in 2:23 the word is "kawraw" which is more correctly used as identification of a class, division, type etc.

in 3:20 kawraw is followed by "shem" which is a proper name.

A better analogy would be he defined her from just being a truck to being specifically an F-250

Are all of the fruits of your 'alleged research" this sloppy and inaccurate?

 

[post]

explain matt 16:17-19

Previously discussed. See post #164

 

[post]

No, just another in a long list of your errors

in 2:23 the word is "kawraw" which is more correctly used as identification of a class, division, type etc.

in 3:20 kawraw is followed by "shem" which is a proper name.

A better analogy would be he defined her from just being a truck to being specifically an F-250

Are all of the fruits of your 'alleged research" this sloppy and inaccurate?

See verse 19.

Adam names every single living soul. God brings them to him, he names them, whatever he "calls them" is their name.

God brings Adam's wife to him. He calls her Woman. That is her name.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

See verse 19.

Adam names every single living soul. God brings them to him, he names them, whatever he "calls them" is their name.

Stop being an idiot. We're not here to boast about ourselves or to make personal attacks against each others character, but to discuss scripture. Clearly you are not acting in line with this.

Stop whining, it just weakens your positions even further than your examples do.

In verse 19, there is no correlation or link between "beasts of the field" and Eve so your attempt at linking is non sequitur

I'm not making any statement against your 'character'- just your posts and their content. They have more than enough errors to keep one busy.

 

[Marymog]

Eusebius in Ecclesiastical History states as a matter of fact that Paul was married.
Origen & Ignatius likewise seem to take it as given.
so how 'figured out' is that trivial matter that you have more interest in?

Thank you post.

The original statement by sheepdog was that Scripture suggested Paul was married. I and many biblical scholars disagree with that suggestion.

But you are right in that there are historical writings from Church Fathers that say Paul was married HOWEVER others say he wasn’t sooooo it is a mute point.

Do you believe everything Origen and Ignatius has written is true?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

No and i have done 2 detailed studies on Paul. If it exists I have never been able to locate any of it or find any legitimate source claiming to have it.

Hi Sheepdog,

My new friend @post here on Christianity Board enlightened me: I pray that, being found worthy of God, I may be found ... at the feet of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob; as of Joseph, and Isaiah, and the rest of the prophets; as of Peter, and Paul, and the rest of the apostles, that were married men.
(Ignatius to the Philadelphians, Chap 4, in Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 1)

So there is a historical writing suggesting Paul was married HOWEVER other Church Fathers disagree. So back to square one

 

[post]

Stop whining, it just weakens your positions even further than your examples do.

In verse 19, there is no correlation or link between "beasts of the field" and Eve so your attempt at linking is non sequitur

I'm not making any statement against your 'character'- just your posts and their content. They have more than enough errors to keep one busy.

Again, Adam named every living soul. It went like this:
God brought them to him, and whatever he called ((kawraw)) them, that was their name ((shem)) .

God's word.

God brought Adam's wife to him, he called her 'Woman' and that was her name.

 

[Josh27]

Again, Adam named every living soul. It went like this:
God brought them to him, and whatever he called ((kawraw)) them, that was their name ((shem)) .

God's word.

God brought Adam's wife to him, he called her 'Woman' and that was her name.

You might as well give up trying to use the facts of Scripture to help this woman see reality.

We can see why God's Word specifies women are not to teach.

 

[Stan B]

The old is the mosaic

Joshua 8:35
There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.

That has nothing to do with a Covenant. Moses was merely a servant delivering a message.

The Old Covenant is the Abrahamic Covenant, an eternal Covenant between God and Abraham:

"For I have made you [Abraham] the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. Gen 17:5

“And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you." Gen17:7 cf Hebrews 8

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Hi Sheepdog,

My new friend @post here on Christianity Board enlightened me: I pray that, being found worthy of God, I may be found ... at the feet of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob; as of Joseph, and Isaiah, and the rest of the prophets; as of Peter, and Paul, and the rest of the apostles, that were married men.
(Ignatius to the Philadelphians, Chap 4, in Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 1)

So there is a historical writing suggesting Paul was married HOWEVER other Church Fathers disagree. So back to square one

Hi Marymog

Historical hearsay is still hearsay no matter how old it is and as far as @post, you would have to work hard to find a less reliable source of anything but its a free world

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Again, Adam named every living soul. It went like this:
God brought them to him, and whatever he called ((kawraw)) them, that was their name ((shem)) .

God's word.

God brought Adam's wife to him, he called her 'Woman' and that was her name.

Yes and thats the same process. You really need a learning annex in hermeneutics.

 

[post]

Hello again Mary,

First of all, yay!
Someone who isn't attacking me!


Second of all,

Do you believe everything Origen and Ignatius has written is true?

No, I do not.

My point was that neither the RCC not 'the church' in the larger sense ((like the actual definition of the word 'catholic')) has actually solved everything; this is illustrative of it.
Whether Paul was ever married or not is such a small thing, yet there is still a lot of disagreement on it. But other things are great points of doctrine, and whole denominations are formed over disagreements about them.

Noone really understands completely the nature of Christ, how that He is both God and Man. No one really understands the trinity, how that the Son is God and the Father is God yet there is only one God. No one really understands why God allowed sin to exist, why He created time and lets it play out, allowing man to fall and then redeeming out of humanity a people to Himself. These are amazing things, and I approach the Bible with awe - not expecting that I will be able to discern the mind of God fully in any of His word, but perhaps to begin to know Him in it.

That's what I mean by saying the Bible is amazingly complex and no one fully sees everything in it; not until He returns and makes us like Him are we going to understand the fullness of even one passage - - because it's revealing Him, His ways, His thoughts, His doings, and He is infinite.

I am not saying the Bible is incomprehensible, but that it's deeper and richer than 100 years of study and meditation can hope to uncover.

We aren't going to run out of wonder

 

[Josh27]

Yes and thats the same process. You really need a learning annex in hermeneutics.

How about if you tell us exactly what that annex should consist of in this instance.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

How about if you tell us exactly what that annex should consist of in this instance.

A good root search followed by a contextual and correlative examination.