The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!

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Marymog

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Hello again Mary,

First of all, yay!
Someone who isn't attacking me!


Second of all,




No, I do not.

My point was that neither the RCC not 'the church' in the larger sense ((like the actual definition of the word 'catholic')) has actually solved everything; this is illustrative of it.
Whether Paul was ever married or not is such a small thing, yet there is still a lot of disagreement on it. But other things are great points of doctrine, and whole denominations are formed over disagreements about them.

Noone really understands completely the nature of Christ, how that He is both God and Man. No one really understands the trinity, how that the Son is God and the Father is God yet there is only one God. No one really understands why God allowed sin to exist, why He created time and lets it play out, allowing man to fall and then redeeming out of humanity a people to Himself. These are amazing things, and I approach the Bible with awe - not expecting that I will be able to discern the mind of God fully in any of His word, but perhaps to begin to know Him in it.

That's what I mean by saying the Bible is amazingly complex and no one fully sees everything in it; not until He returns and makes us like Him are we going to understand the fullness of even one passage - - because it's revealing Him, His ways, His thoughts, His doings, and He is infinite.

I am not saying the Bible is incomprehensible, but that it's deeper and richer than 100 years of study and meditation can hope to uncover.

We aren't going to run out of wonder
Lol...got it. So when you read the writings of the Apostolic or Church Fathers and they write something that supports what YOU believe then they will use their writings to embolden your argument. But if they write something that doesn’t support your beliefs then they are wrong......Which means you are always right.
 

post

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No the "creature" was human and her sex was woman.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His [own] image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

"female" there is 'neqebah'
Adam named his wife 'Ishshah' in Genesis 2:23
Context, language and correlation with the rest of scripture all dictate that.

I am not aware why some are fighting against this. Do you understand the theological implications of the changing of a name? And the authority Adam was given, having named every living soul?
What is the objection? Are you trying to preserve view of Him as ignorant and unrepentant?
That he then changes hers to life when she has just died and been sentanced to death is fantastic! By doing so he declares his faith, and openly declares his sin, and his repentance. Such wisdom!


I'm well aware of the Germanic origins of the transliteration 'Jehovah' - - the 'J' in German is pronounced like a 'Y' in English. But thanks.
I quoted the YLT because it is very word-for-word as a translation. Mssr. Young was very fond of the name Jehovah.
 
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Grailhunter

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Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His [own] image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

"female" there is 'neqebah'
Adam named his wife 'Ishshah' in Genesis 2:23
Context, language and correlation with the rest of scripture all dictate that.

Yes He called her woman but not in the context of a name for an individual. Her name originating with the Hebrew חַוָּה (Chavah/Havah – chavah, to breathe, and chayah, to live, or to give life) Eve is an English given name for a female, derived from the Latin name Eva, in turn originating with the Hebrew חַוָּה and Eva in Latin means the same thing.
 

post

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Lol...got it. So when you read the writings of the Apostolic or Church Fathers and they write something that supports what YOU believe then they will use their writings to embolden your argument. But if they write something that doesn’t support your beliefs then they are wrong......Which means you are always right.

I thought Pilate was damned until I read what the early church thought of him.
They changed my mind.
 

post

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Yes He called her woman but not in the context of a name for an individual.

Absolutely 100% in the context of naming individuals. I've already shown all that.

God brings every individual soul to him. The language allows no other legitimate interpretation. What he calls them, that is their name. Individuals. The language gives no room for any other interpretation.

Immediately after this, in this context, is Woman's creation. The individual Woman. Adam calls her Woman and that is her name.

I'm not going to keep repeating this. You either believe scripture or you don't. If you don't I am not the person you should be talking to.
 

post

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I thought Pilate was damned until I read what the early church thought of him.
They changed my mind.

Well that's not accurate.
They gave me pause, and so I looked closer, and meditated and prayed, and God changed my mind. That is more accurate.

Point being you are wrong to make such an assumption about me, sis. Pilates salvation is a counterexample
 

post

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In re: Paul being married, I tend to think that he was at one time, but she either died or left him prior to or around the time of his conversion.

Pure speculation, with a little historical corroboration.
 

Josh27

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Pity your willful violation of God's Word through Apostle Paul women are not to teach. Please be careful to mind God's Word. Your eternal life is at stake.

Blessings.
 

Grailhunter

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Mary, Please obey God's Word, and do not continue to try to teach. Women are not commissioned or permitted to do so. I am sure you do not understand this. That is why faith is so important

Thanks for your faithful submission and obedience.

I understand the Fundamentalist view that women were not suppose to teach or exert authority or speak in Church. The intent is to degrade women to a second place status in society and Christianity. A lot of it has to do with Judaism and the Jewish culture. As God said to Eve, that her husband would rule over her. People that key on this are cherry picking this sort of belief to serve their own purposes. So a lot of this comes from Judaism and Jewish customs. But the Bible says this so we have to endure this topic. But as I said it is cherry picking of beliefs

In the Old Testament women were treated as property and not suitable for religious activates. Exodus 15:19 "He said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not go near a woman.”
But the scriptures also says....Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There are other beliefs and customs like this....
Neither Christ or the Apostles denounced slavery. So people that go with this sort of thing could say it is correct to have a slave. And I guarantee you that, that was sighted for justification for slavery until it became illegal.

The New Testament does not condemn or restrict polygamy. The Jews practiced polygamy for around a 1000 years after the Christ's ministry. The Christians practiced polygamy for a hundred years...it slowed down after that but it was actually the Gentile Christians during the Ecumenical Councils that put most of the stops on that...put could not stop it completely. It is one of the reasons that Paul stipulated that a church leader could only have one wife. And it is one of the reasons we do not have any examples of Christians rejecting Jews that had multiple wives from converting to Christianity, nor did they require them to divorce all but one of their wives before converting.

Christians in some ways continued to treat women as property. Arranged marriages for centuries after the biblical era...father's received the dowries and bride prices for daughters. The requirement for consensual marriages came probably came around a 1000 years later.

There is no biblical requirement...Old or New Testament for a wedding ceremony. It did become a custom...because the Gentiles like wedding ceremonies. But after the Protestant pledge on Fundamentalisms it is technically a violation. They got at the edge of the corral and peeked over the fence and decided they liked wedding ceremonies and drug it back over the fence. Historically it was the Protestants that first required wedding ceremonies.

As far as women in society and religion, that men and women hold equal status in society and religion, this is something that we have come to learn over that last century. Slow to learn...WOW

My beliefs...I will not stand for any disrespect for women. I welcome the feminine voice in Christianity. Fundamentalists are stuck in a corral of understanding and knowledge....it is what it is.

These are things that most Christians came to learn. This is the limitation that Fundamentalism has on some Christians....know only the Bible...a theological corral of sorts. The problem being is that the New Testament tells us of the first 65 years of Christianity ....but actually there has been 2000 years of God...the Holy Spirit teach us some very important information....morals that extend past the biblical era.

So if you are going to practice "biblical Christianity" you are going to need to include all of it.
 
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Grailhunter

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Absolutely 100% in the context of naming individuals. I've already shown all that.

God brings every individual soul to him. The language allows no other legitimate interpretation. What he calls them, that is their name. Individuals. The language gives no room for any other interpretation.

Immediately after this, in this context, is Woman's creation. The individual Woman. Adam calls her Woman and that is her name.

I'm not going to keep repeating this. You either believe scripture or you don't. If you don't I am not the person you should be talking to.

So lets leave it as we disagree.
 
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Josh27

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I understand the Fundamentalist view that women were not suppose to teach or exert authority or speak in Church. The intent is to degrade women to a second place status in society and Christianity. A lot of it has to do with Judaism and the Jewish culture. As God said to Eve, that her husband would rule over her. People that key on this are cherry picking this sort of belief to serve their own purposes. So a lot of this comes from Judaism and Jewish customs. But the Bible says this so we have to endure this topic. But as I said it is cherry picking of beliefs

In the Old Testament women were treated as property and not suitable for religious activates. Exodus 15:19 "He said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not go near a woman.”
But the scriptures also says....Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There are other beliefs and customs like this....
Neither Christ or the Apostle denounced slavery. So people that go with this sort of thing could say it is correct to have a slave. And I guarantee you that, that was sighted for justification for slavery until it became illegal.

The New Testament does not condemn or restrict polygamy. The Jews practiced polygamy for around a 1000 years after the Christ's ministry. The Christians practiced polygamy for a hundred years...it slowed down after that but it was actually the Gentile Christians during the Ecumenical Councils that put most of the stops on that...put could not stop it completely. It is one of the reasons that Paul stipulated that a church leader could only have one wife. And it is one of the reasons we do not have any examples of Christians rejecting Jews that had multiple wives from converting to Christianity, nor did they require them to divorce all but one of their wives before converting.

Christians in some ways continued to treat women as property. Arranged marriages for centuries after the biblical era...father's received the dowries and bride prices for daughters. The requirement for consensual marriages came probably came around a 1000 years later.

There is no biblical requirement...Old or New Testament for a wedding ceremony. It did become a custom...because the Gentiles like wedding ceremonies. But after the Protestant pledge on Fundamentalisms it is technically a violation. They got at the edge of the corral and peeked over the fence and decided they liked wedding ceremonies and drug it back over the fence. Historically it was the Protestants that first required wedding ceremonies.

As far as women in society and religion, that men and women hold equal status in society and religion, this is something that we have come to learn over that last century. Slow to learn...WOW

My beliefs...I will not stand for any disrespect for women. I welcome the feminine voice in Christianity. Fundamentalists are stuck in a corral of understanding and knowledge....it is what it is.

These are things that most Christians came to learn. This is the limitation that Fundamentalism has on some Christian....know only the Bible...a theological corral of sorts. The problem being is that the New Testament tells us of the first 65 years of Christianity ....but actually there has been 2000 years of God...the Holy Spirit teach us some very important information....morals that extend past the biblical era.

So if you are going to practice "biblical Christianity" you are going to need to include all of it.
Did you have something of merit to give here without using caveats and excuses? What you apparently are calling assessments are nothing more than intuitive meanderings.

If you reject God and His recorded Word, just man up and say so. Can you do that or not?
 

Grailhunter

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In re: Paul being married, I tend to think that he was at one time, but she either died or left him prior to or around the time of his conversion.

Pure speculation, with a little historical corroboration.
Paul being a widower? Well it would make sense but it does cause some issues....
Jewish beliefs...customs...attitudes....very hard line....extreme religious and cultural dislike for homosexuals. Just a regular Jew, if he was not married by the time he was 20, his community would assume he was homosexual and shun him. If he was not married by the time he was 30, he would bring disgrace upon himself and his family. But an unmarried Jew becoming a religious leader in anyway would be impossible...a man that had never married that tried to preach or talk about God in the Temple or on the street would be stoned! This attitude pretty much still exists today in Judaism. There would not be a whole lot of talking going on. But this all causes a problem with Christ....unmarried. No one has an answer for this. As we understand it...the Jewish leaders would not have even talked to Christ, much less come to Him and ask him questions. And the topic does not come up in the Bible, which is a mystery. Every time He opened his mouth to talk about God...the Jews would have asked, Why are you not married? The Jews frowned on men that did not marry, much less religious leaders. Again we do not know the answer....there maybe an answer. And the same goes for some of the Apostles.

Exceptions to the requirement of marriage is another topic.
 
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Grailhunter

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Did you have something of merit to give here without using caveats and excuses? What you apparently are calling assessments are nothing more than intuitive meanderings.

If you reject God and His recorded Word, just man up and say so. Can you do that or not?

If you reject God and His recorded Word, just man up and say so. Can you do that or not?

Nothing of the sort. If you are a fundamentalist, I am saying you should abide by that theology, at least do not lie to yourself.
I am not saying that the Bible is not the written word of God....but no one bound and gagged God and set him in a corner for the past 2000 years. God was not silenced!
 

Josh27

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Paul being a widow? Well it would make sense but it does cause some issues....
Jewish beliefs...customs...attitudes....very hard line....extreme religious and cultural dislike for homosexuals. Just a regular Jew, if he was not married by the time he was 20, his community would assume he was homosexual and shun him. If he was not married by the time he was 30, he would bring disgrace upon himself and his family. But a unmarried Jew becoming a religious leader in anyway would be impossible...an man that had never married that tried to preach or talk about God in the Temple or on the street would be stoned! This attitude pretty much still exist today in Judaism. There would not be a whole lot of talking going on. But this all causes a problem with Christ....unmarried. No one has an answer for this. As we understand it...the Jewish leaders would not have even talked to Christ, much less come to Him and ask him questions. And the topic does not come up in the Bible, which is a mystery. Every time He opened his mouth to talk about God...the Jews would have asked, Why are you not married? The Jews frowned on men that did not marry, much less religious leaders. Again we do not know the answer....there maybe an answer. And the same goes for some of the Apostles.

Exceptions to the requirement of marriage is another topic.
Nothing of the sort. If you are a fundamentalist, I am saying you should abide by that theology, at least do not lie to yourself.
I am not saying that the Bible is not the written word of God....but no one bound and gagged God and set him in a corner for the past 2000 years. God was not silenced!
You are the only one talking about God "being gagged." 1 Timothy 2:14 specifies women are not to teach or have authority over a man. The rationale given is specifically that "Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." [sic]

Read it for yourself. Step up from speculation and error into Truth. Do it without making weak little excuses.
 

Taken

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The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!
OP ^

Nonsense.
Jesus drank "the fruit of the vine", which IS WINE.

Jesus offered "the same drink of the vine" to His Disciples.

Drinking WINE is not a SIN.
Disbelief IN God is a SIN.
 

Grailhunter

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You are the only one talking about God "being gagged." 1 Timothy 2:14 specifies women are not to teach or have authority over a man. The rationale given is specifically that "Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." [sic]

Read it for yourself. Step up from speculation and error into Truth. Do it without making weak little excuses.

Everything I said was factual. There are things that we have learned. Are you going to own a slave? Practice polygamy? Denounce weddings? Are you going to choose your daughter's husband? How about sell all you have and walk around with nothing more than the shirt on your back to be a follower of Christ? OR are you just interested in demeaning women? Do you shut your mother up if she wants to talk about Christ?
 

Josh27

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Everything I said was factual. There are things that we have learned. Are you going to own a slave? Practice polygamy? Denounce weddings? Are you going to choose your daughter's husband? How about sell all you have and walk around with nothing more than the shirt on your back to be a follower of Christ? OR are you just interested in demeaning women? Do you shut your mother up if she wants to talk about Christ?
Let's try this approach.

Just as an example of how not to assume things exist in Scripture which do not exist, be aware there is no place therein which gives God specifying polygamy is approved by Him. Hence, citing it in various accounts of the OT as proof if its acceptance before God is presumptuous and is an error. Have you made that error?

Slaves are to be treated well. Marriage is to be honored. Planned marriages are to be held with the best of faith, given that all women are basically the same. Note that in Galilean weddings during the ceremony the Bride had the option to refuse any particular groom.

The command given to liquidate all of one's possessions and give it to the poor was spoken only to the Disciples, not to the masses of Believers. Belief and Descipleship are not equal.

Thanks so much for searching out better thinking, and the Truth. Keep it up. Some day you might become a converted follower of Christ.
 

Grailhunter

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Just as an example of how not to assume things exist in Scripture which do not exist,

Exactly! The scriptures do say to treat slaves and for slaves to obey their masters....so the scripture that condemns slavery is not there....my point exactly.

be aware there is no place therein which gives God specifying polygamy is approved by Him.

The Mosaic Law regulates Polygamy and concubinage. 613 Mosaic Laws regulates morality...are we to assume that God does not condone morality? When God was talking to David, He took credit for David's wives as a sign of favor. A point that was part of Judaism that the number of wives and children a man had was a sign of God's favor.


Note that in Galilean weddings during the ceremony the Bride had the option to refuse any particular groom.

Refuse any particular groom? Bet you will not find that in any Mosaic Law or as a practice explained by Christ or the Apostles. Parable?

The command given to liquidate all of one's possessions and give it to the poor was spoken only to the Disciples, not to the masses of Believers. Belief and Descipleship are not equal.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?.....He did all that Christ asked....except one thing....
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Thanks so much for searching out better thinking, and the Truth. Keep it up. Some day you might become a converted follower of Christ.
You so funny!
 
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