The problem with the Bible alone!

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BreadOfLife

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These are EVENTS.... because they happen once or twice in a life time... ( some people get re-baptized after their original Catholic baptism ).
These examples are NOT accurate. All these events... are found in the BIBLE. If the Catholic Church followed the bible... it would be a Christian religion instead of a cult.

The rosary would be considered a repetitive prayer = ritual....the apostles creed ...act of contrition... all those pre-worded go-to prayers recited during the mass ....... communion itself.
All these things are repetitive rituals because they are performed in the exact same manner.... on a frequent basis...

They do NOTHING to achieve SALVATION. They are simply REPETITIVE actions demanded to be followed by the church.... that keep the members STUCK and DEPENDENT to the organization of RCC. It's all fear-based manipulation. Similar to what you do to people here @BOL.

You forgot to mention confession... there's another good one.... (say the Lord's prayer 15 times and you are forgiven)... This one is a double whammy because not only must one CONFESS their business to a priest.... BUT.... the church claims the ability to FORGIVE sins.... AMAZING.... but yet another LIE of the RCC. Only CHRIST can forgive our sins... but confession is indeed good for the soul.... Just be careful of any man who falsely claims the ability to forgive you... LOL

YEP.... there is no doubt that the catholic church embraces all kinds of rituals.... That is very clear. The list goes on and on... Sadly... many people are still brainwashed.

The fact that you quoted me @BOL suggests that you are looking for some drama.... Sorry but I am fresh out... It is not a pleasant thing communicating with you. You bring nothing but condemnation to the forums. NOT my cup of tea.

I will NEVER support the institution called RCC.... It is an evil place.
"Events"??
That's a cop-out. They are RITUALS - and every Christian parttakes in them, not just Catholics.

I also noticed how you DODGED the other points I made against your original list of gripes, namely Taditions and Repetitious Prayer - BOTH for which I showed Biblical precedent. And the fact that you condemm Communion speaks VOLUMES about where you are with Christ, who commands us to parttake in it (Mark 14:22-25,Luke 22:18-20, John 6:53, 1 Cor. 11:23-25).

Finally - YOU accuse ME of bringing "condemnation" to the forum while YOU sit there and condemn Catholic practices.
I only "condemn" the lies, myths and fairytales some of you concoct.

The only thing more astounding that your Biblical bankruptcy is your blatant hypocrisy . . .


PS - when you get a chance - exegete the following passage of Scripture and explain to me what Jesus meant.:
(Add'l context - Matt 16:16-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, Luke 10:16)

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”
 

BreadOfLife

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If the Bible had been believed, there would never have been the necessity for unbelieving councils to offer divergent opinions on certain truths they couldn't understand.
Says the guy who belongs to one of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of Scripture of their different human founders.

Soooo - if YOU guys are "right" and we're "wrong" - WHY all the factions??
And by the way - the Councils weren't "unbelieving" - they were simply defining what we believe as Christians.
 

Brakelite

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Says the guy who belongs to one of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of Scripture of their different human founders.

Soooo - if YOU guys are "right" and we're "wrong" - WHY all the factions??
And by the way - the Councils weren't "unbelieving" - they were simply defining what we believe as Christians.
And passed anathemas on any who happened to disagree with those definitions, encouraging, and sometimes blackmailing secular rulers to murder those dissenters. That was the Catholic loving way of preaching the gospel to all the world.
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="

the Christian ritual of baptism has a character upon the soul and cannot be repeated eph 4:5 one baptism
The seal of the spirit

it is God who does this ez 36:25-27
 

theefaith

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No, the Bible does not produce differing sects all teaching errors. Those who read the Bible but don't believe what it says, teach errors. By the way, can you please name all those 30,000 Bible based sects?

you’re is number one

I did not say the Bible but the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
 

Addy

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"Events"??
That's a cop-out. They are RITUALS - and every Christian parttakes in them, not just Catholics.
LOL.... we can't even agree on what a ritual is.... LOL.... I have expressed myself... and I stand beside my definition of
the word EVENT..... a wedding is an event... a baptism is an event... saying the rosary is a ritual.... going to daily mass is a ritual.... receiving communion is a ritual... going to confession is a ritual.... because it happens often and follows a strict form of compliance..... = ritual

From the bible alone...
we are informed as to what marriage is... what baptism is... it's all in the BIBLE.... which is the ONLY source we need to be an obedient CHRISTIAN... The bible is GOD's instruction book... CHURCH does NOT have the authority that the bible does.

@@@ cop-out.... You are quite the comedian.... as for the rest of your words.... I have NOT read them...

I don't pay close attention to what you BREATH onto these forums... so I do not feel obliged to read more than the first paragraph of any of your posts.... but you are aware of this already.

As I have stated often... ( a ritual ).... I do NOT enjoy communicating with you.
 
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theefaith

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scripture

rituals are commanded by God such as the Passover
And by Christ such as the holy mass the sacrifice of Christ, do this in memory of me

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Thru the sacraments!


God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

———

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

theefaith

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The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

The seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.
 

BreadOfLife

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And passed anathemas on any who happened to disagree with those definitions, encouraging, and sometimes blackmailing secular rulers to murder those dissenters. That was the Catholic loving way of preaching the gospel to all the world.
An anathema is a Biblical disciplinary prescription for unruly or heretical behavior (1 Cor. 5:5, 1 Tim. 1:20).
As for your charge that the Church officially "blackmailed" rulers to murder dissenters - you have an ignorant view of history.

Dissenters was a concern of the STATE because they were just plain BAD for commerce and the rule of Law.
Dissenters = FACTIONS and Factions = REBELLION.

It was in the interest of the kingdoms, not the Church to squelch dissenters - and that's who did the executing.
Looks like you've been ,marinating in the writings of your false prophetess (E.G. White) again . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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LOL.... we can't even agree on what a ritual is.... LOL.... I have expressed myself... and I stand beside my definition of the word EVENT..... a wedding is an event... a baptism is an event... saying the rosary is a ritual.... going to daily mass is a ritual.... receiving communion is a ritual... going to confession is a ritual.... because it happens often and follows a strict form of compliance..... = ritual

From the bible alone... we are informed as to what marriage is... what baptism is... it's all in the BIBLE.... which is the ONLY source we need to be an obedient CHRISTIAN... The bible is GOD's instruction book... CHURCH does NOT have the authority that the bible does.

@@@ cop-out.... You are quite the comedian.... as for the rest of your words.... I have NOT read them...

I don't pay close attention to what you BREATH onto these forums... so I do not feel obliged to read more than the first paragraph of any of your posts.... but you are aware of this already.

As I have stated often... ( a ritual ).... I do NOT enjoy communicating with you.
Uhhhh, no - just because YOU reject the definition of what constitutes a "Ritual" - doesn't make you right.
It simply shows that because you LOST an argument - you will redefine what it means..
This is a textbook example of relativism . . .

A Baptism ceremony is a RITUAL . . .
A wedding ceremony is a RITUAL . . .
Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

ritual
noun
Definition of ritual
1: the established form for a ceremony

Encyclopedia Britannica:
The most universal ritual is one that symbolizes a sacred union. This may be expressed by the joining of hands, an exchange of rings or chains, or the tying of garments.


Your idiotic assertion that simply because Weddings and Baptisms are mentioned in the Bible - that they are NOT rituals is incredible stupid. What's more - there is not a SINGLE example of a wedding OR a Baptism ceremony in the Bible - not ONE. Only the MENTION pf them. The rituals themselves are ALL based on TRADITION.

You're over your head on this one . . .

As to your last comment - you don't enjoy communicating with me because you hate being proven WRONG.
 

Brakelite

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Looks like you've been ,marinating in the writings of your false prophetess (E.G. White) again . . .
That she just happened to agree with every historian of the dark ages that the church persecuted dissenters/heretics (in the church's opinion) seems to have passed your notice. Even your own church as policy boasted of having the sword of the secular arm to use at the church's disposal.
You are a pretender of the highest order.
 

Addy

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As to your last comment - you don't enjoy communicating with me because you hate being proven WRONG.
HA.... I spiced it up this time.... I only read the LAST sentence of your post rather than your first.

LET me be clear... as to WHY I do not enjoy or desire to communicate with you... I have expressed this before but you refuse to accept it for some reason.

I don't enjoy communicating with you because you express overflowing arrogance... and extreme rudeness... to those who come against your beliefs and opinions. You radiate a very oppressive countenance.

You walk through these forums like you own them... and you represent yourself as a most demeaning person who refuses to respect others.
It is my opinion that you should be BANNED from this place... and I have made no secret of that.


As far as proving me wrong... LOL... a wedding is an event.... a baptism is an event... a funeral is an event... Not sure why this bothers you when you have so many rituals to fall back on.

Anyways... I have had way over my quota of dealing with you... I am going to exercise my right to put you on IGNORE.... I should never have taken you off.
 
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Illuminator

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Ritual and “physicality” were not abolished by the coming of Christ. Quite the contrary: it was the Incarnation that fully established sacramentalism as a principle in the Christian religion. The latter may be defined as the belief that matter can convey grace. It’s really that simple, at bottom, or in essence. God uses matter both to help us live better lives (sanctification) and to ultimately save us (regeneration and justification), starting with baptism itself.

The atonement or redemption of Christ (His death on the cross for us) was not purely “spiritual".

” It was as physical (“sacramental,” if you will) as it could be, as well as spiritual. Protestants often piously refer to “the Blood of Jesus,” and rightly so (see Rev 5:9; Eph 1:7; Col 1:14; Heb 9:12; 1 Pet 1:2; 1 Jn 1:7; etc.). This is explicitly sacramental thinking.

Sacramentalism and the Bible

It was the very suffering of Jesus in the flesh, and the voluntary shedding of His own blood, which constituted the crucial, essential aspect of His work as our Redeemer and Savior. One can’t avoid this: “he was bruised for our iniquities” (Is 53:5).

So it is curious that many appear to possess a pronounced hostility to the sacramental belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, seeing that it flows so straightforwardly from the Incarnation and the Crucifixion itself. This brings to mind an analogy to the Jewish and Muslim disdain for the Incarnation as an unthinkable (impossible?) task for God to undertake. They view the Incarnation in the same way a majority of Protestants regard the Eucharist.

For them, God wouldn’t or couldn’t or shouldn’t become a man (such a thought is blasphemous; unthinkable!). For many (not all) Protestants, God wouldn’t or couldn’t or shouldn’t become substantially, physically, sacramentally present under the outward forms of bread and wine. The dynamic or underlying premise is the same. If Christ could become man, He can surely will to be actually and truly present in what was formerly (and still looks like) bread and wine, once consecrated.

The New Testament is filled with incarnational and sacramental indications: instances of matter conveying grace. The Church is the “Body” of Christ (1 Cor 12:27; Eph 1:22-23; 5:30), and marriage (including its physical aspects) is described as a direct parallel to Christ and the Church (Eph 5:22-33; esp. 29-32). Jesus even seems to literally equate Himself in some sense with the Church, saying He was “persecuted” by Paul, after the Resurrection (Acts 9:5).

Not only that; in St. Paul’s teaching, one can find a repeated theme of identifying very graphically and literally with Christ and His sufferings (see: 2 Cor 4:10; Phil 2:17; 3:10; 2 Tim 4:6; and above all, Col 1:24).

Matter conveys grace all over the place in Scripture: baptism confers regeneration (Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; cf. Mk 16:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5). Paul’s “handkerchiefs” healed the sick (Acts 19:12), as did even Peter’s shadow (Acts 5:15), and of course, Jesus’ garment (Mt 9:20-22) and saliva mixed with dirt (John 9:5); Mk 8:22-25), as well as water from the pool of Siloam (John 9:7).

Anointing with oil for healing is encouraged (James 5:14). We also observe in Scripture the laying on of hands for the purpose of ordination and commissioning (Acts 6:6; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6) to facilitate the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17-19; 13:3; 19:6), and for healing (Mark 6:5; Luke 13:13; Acts 9:17-18). Even under the old covenant, a dead man was raised simply by coming in contact with the bones of the prophet Elisha (2 Kings 13:21) — which is also one of the direct evidences for the Catholic practice of the veneration of relics (itself an extension of the sacramental principle).

Not ‘magic charms’
Sacramentalism is a “product” of the Incarnation, just as the Church also is. But we must also understand that the sacraments are not “magic charms".

” The Church also teaches that one should have the correct “interior disposition” when receiving them. Fr. John A. Hardon, SJ, the great catechist, wrote, in an entry on “Sacramental Dispositions”: “Condition of soul required for the valid and/or fruitful reception of the sacraments. … In the recipient who has the use of reason is required merely that no obstacles be placed in the way. Such obstacles are a lack of faith or sanctifying grace or of a right intention.”(Modern Catholic Dictionary, Garden City, New York, Doubleday & Company, 1980, 477) Likewise, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in its section on ex opere operato (No. 1128), notes: “Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.

”The sacrament of the Eucharist, for example, will not have a positive effect or convey grace if received by a person in mortal sin (see 1 Cor 11:27-30; CCC #1415), and priestly absolution is null and void without the necessary prerequisite of true repentance.

This is all the more true of sacramentals (things like holy water, scapulars, blessings, miraculous medals, genuflection, etc.) which depend entirely on the inner state of the one using or receiving them. Intent, sincerity, motivation, piety, and suchlike are all supremely important in the Catholic life.

The scapular will not “work” for a person who neglects the pursuit of righteousness and obedience and views it as a “magic charm” (which is occultic superstition) rather than a Catholic sacramental. A piece of cloth cannot rescind the normal duties of the Catholic life. Nor is God some sort of celestial “vending machine".

” He wants our hearts; he wants us — not meaningless outward obedience without the proper interior motivation, in love, and by His grace. Sacraments help us, but we must do our part, too.

Christ didn’t abolish ritual — He perfected it -
 

Addy

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The scapular will not “work” for a person who neglects the pursuit of righteousness and obedience and views it as a “magic charm” (which is occultic superstition)

So why have such an object in the first place if like you have stated it resembles witchcraft?? I am familiar with a scapular... I have even worn one... It is supposed to help with keeping a person's attire PURE... the premise was to wear it in such a fashion that no one would see it.

It never solved the issue of purity... which is a condition of the heart... ALL the rituals and traditions in the world do NOTHING but keep us clinging to them... Catholicism represents a whole smorgasbord of RITUALS... with very bad results of maintaining holiness... purity... goodness... or love.

If you cut the RCC in the middle.... WHAT will you find inside??? ( In the deep dark places )... I fear it is evilness to overflowing. One day this is actually going to happen.... and that is WHEN we will see what the Roman Catholic church was all about.

BEAUTY is as beauty DOES.... ALL this defending of an institution is mind boggling to me... a form of idolatry... God is not the least bit moved by any of it.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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If you think the Christian “rule of faith” is the Bible alone then why does the Bible not teach it? Acts 2:42 the held to the doctrine of the apostles not the “Bible alone”!

we must be taught!

Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42 Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

apostles teach the faith of Christians!
We have the Holy Spirit to teach us, we do not need a teacher.
Many people in the world own a Bible, may read and even study it. It alone is not enough. We must have a relationship with Jesus, Who died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures. How do we believe? God enables us, He draws us to His Word and guides us. He lifts the veil of blindness, so we can see. He gives us life and His Spirit to dwell in us.
Commentary by scholars is helpful but man is flawed and so truth is compromised. Truth is then often mixed with bad theology and then their followers believe all if it.

Don't worry about anyone else, live your life and have a relationship with Christ. Be joyful, love one another and judge not lest you be judged.
I think Pope John Paul II was a great man, I read his book "Beyond the Threshold of Hope" - It was amazing. He knew his history, ten languages, wow. Mother Teresa was a loving women, a true servant.
Not everyone can be like them. We all have a purpose, some will have a little faith and others an abundant amount.
I remember an interview with Mother Teresa who was close to her time. The woman reporter asked, "Who will take your place? She said, "You can!" Oh, how that reporter shrunk back in rejection. She must have felt convicted or even guilty. She wasn't willing and not everyone is. But it was a lesson. God calls everyone to do something. What has He asked you to do? Love.
 

Addy

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Don't worry about anyone else, live your life and have a relationship with Christ. Be joyful, love one another and judge not lest you be judged.
I think Pope John Paul II was a great man, I read his book "Beyond the Threshold of Hope" - It was amazing. He knew his history, ten languages, wow. Mother Teresa was a loving women, a true servant.
Not everyone can be like them. We all have a purpose, some will have a little faith and others an abundant amount.
I remember an interview with Mother Teresa who was close to her time. The woman reporter asked, "Who will take your place? She said, "You can!" Oh, how that reporter shrunk back in rejection. She must have felt convicted or even guilty. She wasn't willing and not everyone is. But it was a lesson. God calls everyone to do something. What has He asked you to do? Love.
The voice of REASON has spoken....
 

Robert Gwin

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only thru the teaching authority of the apostles Matt 28:19
We are the nations to be taught
Lk 1:4 acts 8 the eunuch had scripture God sent an apostle

Philip was not actually an apostle sir, however he was a disciple, and all disciples have the same assignment given when Jesus returned to heaven. All disciples today are still under that assignment, to declare the good news to the ends of the earth. This assignment will be completed when Mat 24:14 and Acts 1:8 is fulfilled to God's satisfaction.

Jesus and other angels do oversee the preaching work, and just like the account in Acts showed then, it still happens today, if someone is sincerely searching for God, He will let Himself be found and they will be reached by one of His people.
 

BreadOfLife

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HA.... I spiced it up this time.... I only read the LAST sentence of your post rather than your first.

LET me be clear... as to WHY I do not enjoy or desire to communicate with you... I have expressed this before but you refuse to accept it for some reason.

I don't enjoy communicating with you because you express overflowing arrogance... and extreme rudeness... to those who come against your beliefs and opinions. You radiate a very oppressive countenance.

You walk through these forums like you own them... and you represent yourself as a most demeaning person who refuses to respect others.
It is my opinion that you should be BANNED from this place... and I have made no secret of that.


As far as proving me wrong... LOL... a wedding is an event.... a baptism is an event... a funeral is an event... Not sure why this bothers you when you have so many rituals to fall back on.

Anyways... I have had way over my quota of dealing with you... I am going to exercise my right to put you on IGNORE.... I should never have taken you off.
THANK YOU for proving my my point.
You completely dodged the issues that we were discussing because your entire argument COLLAPSED under Scriptural and linguistic scrutiny.

As for the rest of your rant - I've been accused MANY times by people like you on this forum of being "rude" or "arrogant".
The funny thing is - it's ALWAYS after I have exposed the absurdity and dishonesty if the arguments of angry, ignorant anti-Catholics that I am charged with these things.
You only want me "banned" so you can continue spewing your ignorant dishonesty.

So, the Lesson here for YOU is:
Don't make your idiotic attacks if you don't want to be exposed . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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That she just happened to agree with every historian of the dark ages that the church persecuted dissenters/heretics (in the church's opinion) seems to have passed your notice. Even your own church as policy boasted of having the sword of the secular arm to use at the church's disposal.
You are a pretender of the highest order.
No - I'm just a student of history.

And if you don't understand WHY dissenters of ANY kind were bad news for the running of a kingdom and were de3alt with harshly - then crack open a history book . . .
 
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