Can the Soul Die?
- Thread starter BroRando
- Start date
-
- Tags
- death resurrection soul
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
So you think I read the scriptures to hear only what I want them to say. Ok you go ahead and believe that. I will continue to believe that the eternal punishment for the unfaithful, the persons that God has judged as unworthy of eternal life is eternal death. Eternal death means that those person's no longer exist and will never exist again they have no awareness have no consciousness. What I mean is when a human being dies, he/she is dead, they no longer have existence. If such a person/person's have been judged by God to have lived a faithful life to God, that person/person's are resurrected back to life in the second presence of Jesus Christ. If God has judged them as being unfaithful then they will not get a resurrection and will stay in nonexistence for eternity. That's the punishment for unfaithfulness, eternal death or eternal nonexistence. Those who believe that you continue to exist when a human being dies doesn't believe in death. Eternal life means you exist for eternity, eternal death means you don't exist and you stay in the state of nonexistence for eternity. Eternal life and eternal death are opposite, they're not the same.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Then you don't believe in death so you're calling the True God a liar just as Satan calls God a liar when he said there was no death. Death means you have no consciousness, awareness, you cease to exist. If a human being is one of those that God has judged as faithful, then during the second presence of Jesus Christ they will be resurrected
LTJMP14
Active Member
You're a jw, you don't believe Jesus is God or that he bodily rose from the grave, and you preach another gospel, so I don't expect to agree with you on pretty much anything. Also, I stay away from cults.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
When a human being dies, his/her fate then rests with the only True God. If a person is judged by the only True God as being faithful then although he/she dies he/she will be brought back to life in the resurrection which begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ. During the time of that person/person's death until the second presence of Jesus Christ these person's have no consciousness, they have no awareness. They don't exist except in God's memory. Because God does remember them then during the second presence of Jesus Christ he will resurrect them back to life. Death is nonexistence, unconsciousness, nonawareness. Life means you are conscious you are aware. Life and death are opposite. Those that the True God has judged as unfaithful will not get a resurrection they will stay in a state of nonexistence which is what eternal death is.
First of all I wasn't addressing you.
None of this is legitimate scripture or exists outside of Watchtower literature. Taze was a false prophet as is the watchtower.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Actually you preach another gospel you are one of those who doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is the Only-Begotten Son of God. You don't believe God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind.You deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human. You also deny that the Only Begotten Son of God who is the last Adam became a life giving spirit as the scriptures say he did. You belong to the weeds that Satan sewed so you're right, as long as you believe the weeds that Satan sewed we will not agree on many things
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Of course it is scripture you as I said to many agree with Satan when he said that there is no death. Death and life are opposite they're not the same.
LTJMP14
Active Member
No.. Jesus Christ is not God. "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
If you would like to be saved, then exercise faith in (Romans 10:9).
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So we can see from the scriptures that we must believe that Jesus is the Only-Begotten Son of God.
Would you agree, that the best way to learn the truth about Jesus is to examine what he said about himself?
Notice, please, at John 6:38, Jesus said: “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” Now, that statement would be a bit puzzling if Jesus were God wouldn't it? I mean if Jesus were God wouldn't he have come down and said he came down to do his will and not the will of some other person? Also if Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of someone else, who is the person who sent him? And why did Jesus yield to the will of that person?
If Jesus is God why does the scripture at John 7:16 say- Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: ‘What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.’” again the scriptures show that the only Begotten Son was sent by someone. So Jesus isn't saying he is the person who sent him and neither is Jesus teaching his own ideas but was teaching them the ideas of the person who sent him.
So Who sent Jesus? And who gave him the truths he taught?’ Wouldn’t that One be greater than Jesus? After all, the sender is superior to the one who is sent.
Jesus describes his relationship with God as a Father and Son relationship. This kind of relationship teaches that the Father is older and has more authority. At John 20:17 after Jesus had been resurrected he says that he has a Father and God which is Jesus Apostles and disciples Father and God. So here Jesus doesn't claim to be God.
Philippians 2:9 describes what God did after Jesus’ death and resurrection: “God exalted Jesus to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.” According to this verse, God did this for Jesus, so again this scripture shows that Jesus isn't God. Plus no one is above the True God to exalt him to a superior position the True God has always had a superior position. Also although Jesus has been exalted to a superior position meaning all things in heaven and on earth and under the earth have been made subject to the Only-Begotten Son of God it is understood that the Only True God who is the Father and God of Jesus isn't subject to the Only-Begotten Son.
Acts 16:30-32 -The Bible says that the apostle Paul and Silas told a jailer: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will get saved.” Then, after that, they began to teach “the word of Jehovah”* to the jailer. This indicates that the jailer could not truly believe in Jesus unless he had a basic understanding of God’s Word. He needed accurate knowledge based on the Scriptures. 1 Timothy 2:3,4
2 Timothy 3:15-17 so we must read and study the Bible.
Acts 3:19- We must also repent, or feel deep sorrow, over previous wrong attitudes and conduct. Your repentance will be obvious to others as you stop practices that offend God and do “works that befit repentance.” Acts 26:20
A person who wants to be a disciple of Jesus Christ must get baptized Matthew 28:19.
Acts 2:40,41- The apostle Peter taught a large crowd the truth about Jesus, “those who gladly accepted his word were baptized.”
Those who “observe all the things” that Jesus commanded show by their life course that they are his followers. Matthew 28:20 They become “doers of the word and not hearers only. James 1:22
LTJMP14
Active Member
I simply asked what must I do TO BE saved, not what a saved person will be like or will do. Can you do that: simply tell me in what I must do to be saved?
You reject the deity of Jesus Christ. John 1 clearly tells us that Jesus is God.
LTJMP14
Active Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
John 1 doesn't tell that Jesus is God your interpretation of John 1 tells you that Jesus is God. I believe what the gospel of John says which tells us that everything he wrote which includes John 1 is to prove Jesus is the Son of God. John 20:30,31. This is not what you teach so obviously it's not what you believe.
LTJMP14
Active Member
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Every Bible translation except for the JW bible says "the word was God."
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
In John 1:1 that the nature of the Logos (the Word) is explicitly stated. The first verse of John, as translated in the King James Version, reads: “In the beginning was the Word [ho logos], and the Word was with God [ton theon, accusative case of ho theos], and the Word was God [theos]” (John 1:1).
In the Greek this is: En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos. The Greek sentence ends with the crucial words: kai theos en ho logos (“and god was the Word”). We are concerned here with the Greek noun theos (“god”) written without the definite article. This contrasts with the first mentioning of this noun expressed by ton theon, the accusative case of ho theos (“the God”), i.e., the noun theos preceded by the definite article ho.
In this verse, reference is made to God and the Logos, not to three beings. When John 1:1 refers to the Word as “god,” there is really no basis for concluding that he is the second person of a triune deity. This is evident from the Greek text, where, as we have just seen, the definite article ho appears before the first mention of God in the sentence, but is omitted before the second. The presence of the definite article before the noun suggests an identity, a personality, whereas its absence merely suggests a quality about someone. In the New Testament, the definite article usually precedes the noun theos when it denotes the one-and-only God. Since the Greek definite article is omitted before the second mention of theos, no proof for the existence of a triune deity can be accurately adduced from this verse. The omission of the definite article before the second mention of theos causes the word theos to act merely as an adjective that describes the nature of the Word. It thus serves as a predicate adjective rather than as a predicate noun. For this reason, some translators render John 1:1 as “the word was deity” or “was divine.” This is quite different from the trinitarian view that the Word was God and was identical with God. If the Word was toward God, or with God, or for God, it is impossible to say that it was God. If it was God, it could stand in no relationship to God.
The author of John is expressing his belief that Jesus, the Word, was not “the God” but “a god.” It should not be considered unusual that a New Testament author refers to Jesus as a “god” since he is considered to be the supernatural agent that is the decisive link between God and His creation. The term “god” is applied even to the evil angel Satan, “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4). Indeed, Paul says: “there are many gods and many lords but for us there is but one God, the Father, . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 8:5-6). Since referring to Jesus as a god would not make him, in any way, part of the one-and-only God, the proper translation of John 1:1 should be: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [literally “toward”] God, and the Word was a god.” There is no reason to assume that the need for a definite article is understood from the context in order to be able to translate the end of the verse as, “and the Word was [the] God.” John means that the god mentioned here was not the only god, i.e., a supernatural being, a God not the God.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna." Matt.10:28
Here we have a distinction between body and soul. I like what CS Lewis said, We are a living soul, we have a body. What is a living soul. A plant or tree is not a living soul. It does not have consciousness, a mind, emotions, will, personality. Theae are not physical. You cannot cut open a brain and see thoughts, ideas, talents, memories. These are invisible. Love is invisible, it is not a chemical on the brain. If it was, we would find a way to inject it into every human. That may be extreme though, we might then see people overdosing on love and doing too much unselfish, generous things to everyone. This would be disastrous. We would not need God or prayer anymore ... "Don't need the Bible either, just give me another shot of that good stuff - Love vaccine!"
Thankfully love is not a chemical.
Is the soul the same as the spirit?
Not exactly, yes and no but if they were the same, they could not be divided.
"For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart." HEB. 4:12
Our spirit goes to be with the Lord. These parts of us are so highly integrated but thebway I understand itnis that we are birn living souls with a dead spirit. The spirit part of us is non-functional until we are born again. Our spiritual then enters into Christ, hence we are in Christ. And so are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. So what about our soul? Or soul and body are the flesh, where sin dwells. The soul isn't the part if you that is perfected, however you, your mind, will emotions, character are transformed, sanctified as you grow spiritually, so that you now live not according to the flesh but walk in the Spirit. Your spirit is everything that is good about you and this part of You, when it dies goes to heaven.
Unbelieving souls go to Sheol (Hades, the underworld, that also has divisions, partially for souls and the Abyss/ Bottomless Pit for demons) to await their final judgment to be destroy in the Lake of Fire (Hell).
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
LTJMP14 said:
Every Bible translation except for the JW bible says "the word was God."[/Quote\]
You haven't done your research, the Bible a New translation of the Bible of 1934 by James moffatt says the logos, "was Divine," not, "was God" this Bible existed before the JW Bible. The Bible, "The authentic New Testament," of 1958 by Hugh J. Schonfield also says, "Logos was Divine," not, "was God," the Bible, An American translation, of 1935 by J.M. Powers Smith and Edgar J. Godspeed says, "Logos was Divine," not, "was God." This Bible also existed before the JW Bible.
The Emphatic Diaglott of 1864 as printed in 1942 by Benjamin Wilson says, "a god was the Word."
The Bible, The New Testament in an improved version of 1808 published in London says, "the Word was a god."
The point I'm making here is not only are there Bibles that disagree with your translation of John 1:1 but also some of these Bibles existed before the JW Bible.
Every Bible translation except for the JW bible says "the word was God."[/Quote\]
You haven't done your research, the Bible a New translation of the Bible of 1934 by James moffatt says the logos, "was Divine," not, "was God" this Bible existed before the JW Bible. The Bible, "The authentic New Testament," of 1958 by Hugh J. Schonfield also says, "Logos was Divine," not, "was God," the Bible, An American translation, of 1935 by J.M. Powers Smith and Edgar J. Godspeed says, "Logos was Divine," not, "was God." This Bible also existed before the JW Bible.
The Emphatic Diaglott of 1864 as printed in 1942 by Benjamin Wilson says, "a god was the Word."
The Bible, The New Testament in an improved version of 1808 published in London says, "the Word was a god."
The point I'm making here is not only are there Bibles that disagree with your translation of John 1:1 but also some of these Bibles existed before the JW Bible.
LTJMP14
Active Member
That there is a whole lot of watchtower witchcraft wresting of scripture to your own destruction. Jesus is God the Son, co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
You need the watchtower to tell you what the Bible says; I have the Holy Spirit who helps me discern the truth. My advice to you: get out of that cult and be deprogrammed now. The end is near.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
LTJMP14 said:
I simply asked what must I do TO BE saved, not what a saved person will be like or will do. Can you do that: simply tell me in what I must do to be saved?[/Quote\]
First if all you didn't just ask me how to be saved you also asked me if Jesus was God.
Well I answered both those questions with scripture, the problem is, you don't believe scripture.
The scriptures tells us we must believe that Jesus sacrificed his life for our sins.
Like this man at Acts 16:30-32 specifically asked how to be saved and the apostle answered him by saying, believe in the Lord Jesus and you will get saved. Then the apostle began to teach the man and his household, the word of God. This indicates that the jailer could not truly believe in Jesus unless he knew the basic understanding of Gods word. In other words he needed to know the accurate knowledge that's based on the scriptures.1 Timothy 2:3,4 This man and his household had to know who Jesus was and that he sacrificed himself for mankind sins and why is it that the Only-Begotten Son of God had to come and sacrifice his life for mankind.
I simply asked what must I do TO BE saved, not what a saved person will be like or will do. Can you do that: simply tell me in what I must do to be saved?[/Quote\]
First if all you didn't just ask me how to be saved you also asked me if Jesus was God.
Well I answered both those questions with scripture, the problem is, you don't believe scripture.
The scriptures tells us we must believe that Jesus sacrificed his life for our sins.
Like this man at Acts 16:30-32 specifically asked how to be saved and the apostle answered him by saying, believe in the Lord Jesus and you will get saved. Then the apostle began to teach the man and his household, the word of God. This indicates that the jailer could not truly believe in Jesus unless he knew the basic understanding of Gods word. In other words he needed to know the accurate knowledge that's based on the scriptures.1 Timothy 2:3,4 This man and his household had to know who Jesus was and that he sacrificed himself for mankind sins and why is it that the Only-Begotten Son of God had to come and sacrifice his life for mankind.
