Truth,
First off, let me apologize for the slow response. I usually do not get on any of the boards on the weekends, I kinda devote that time to relaxing and spending with family. But I am back, so let's get to it.
The other issue to the idea of Satan speaking with God. When we consider how far He has distanced Himself from his earth due to sin, it is difficult to see God and some abhorrent evil manifestation in "peaceable" discussion about the life of Job. Arch enemies discussing the life of one man, and none other? What’s so special about Job?..That Satan should take such interest?
[font="tahoma][size="2"]But that is the thing, Satan and God are not Arch enemies, they are creation and creator. There is no equalness in them. Satan may be deluded into thinking that he is on a level playing field with God, with God being on the side of 'right' and Satan being on the side of 'evil', but that is a lie that he is telling himself. God uses all to accomplish his will. And God uses all to bring himself Glory. But you ask what is so special about Job? Are you serious? Satan didn't really take an interest in Job until God brought him up. God brought him up because he was to be held up as an example of someone who would hold fast to God no matter what the cost. Imagine for a sec that Satan was a fallen angel, and there were other angels there as well listening in to this conversation, both fallen and unfallen angels. Imagine what it would mean to both sides to see a creature, who was made a little lower than the angels, hold fast to God, even in the face of this much adversity. Just imagine how this would highlight the weakness in Satan's character. That this human would hold fast to his God, when Satan would not. [/size][/font]
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Everything listed has nothing to do with his relationship with God! and everything to do with his material prosperity. Why would Satan care about what Job’s possessions?
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]Did not God himself declare that Job was his servant, "Have you considered
my servant, Job?" Job's relationship with God was beyond question. What else was there to talk about? I would say that he was about as righteous a man, as he could get. Does this mean that he didn't sin? Of course not. Even Job questioned God's character, and his love for him. But through it all, Job was faithful to God. [/size][/font]
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Is Satan implying that Job’s great righteousness is self-serving? Maybe that his real motive for loving and fearing God was for self-benefit? So Satan in many ways is scoffing at Job’s faith, but also at what he perceived to be God’s method of making sons by rewarding faithful service with bountiful prosperity in this life.
Satan no doubt is “one” full of envy not in terms of his relationship with God BUT what he has his possessions.
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]Of course Satan would imply that. And yes he was scoffing at Job's faith. What would you have Satan say? That Job, in a sin-filled, sin-corrupted shell of flesh was more righteous than Satan was when He was created in glory. That Job's devotion to his God was more than Satans? Satan's arrogance had to come up with a reason that Job had not abandoned his God, just like Satan had. [/size][/font]
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]The 'prosperity gospel' has been a lie from the very beginning. That faithfulness bring material blessing, and sinning brings disasters, and curses was a popular teaching. It was a popular teaching in Job's times. Didn't his 'friends' keep trying to convince Job to 'repent' for some great evil that he had done, even when Job kept telling them that he didn't. This was a popular teaching in Jesus' time. The disciples once asked Jesus about a man who had been blind from birth, "Who sinned, this man or his parents?" And it is popular even today. Thousands of years, and man really hasn't learned this one thing yet.[/size][/font]
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All sorts of issues arise here.
If Satan is a demonic being "full of hate" and every evil thing, and ho has been given authority by God to afflict his son:
Why would Satan need Gods authority? Does this mean every person your Satan wants to hurt needs Gods approval?
Why should Satan do as God has instructed?
Satan appears to have morality and can be trusted? Is this consistent with your teaching of Satan?
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]First of all, Yes God gave Satan authority to persecute Job, but only because God was teaching Satan and all the other angels, and even Job himself, an important truth. That God is supreme. And that Man is capable to holding fast to God even in very difficult situations. It is in the storms of our life that we are drawn to be closer to God. It is in the valleys, in the times that God is no where to be seen, that he is the closest. After all this was over, not only was Satan beaten and humiliated, but Job was closer with God than he had ever been. God is glorified. [/size][/font]
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]And you ask why would Satan need God's authority? Are you serious? This is the part of the reply, that I know you haven't really thought out. My question to you, is Why wouldn't Satan need God's authority? God is the creator, and Satan is the creation! God is Sovereign. Do I believe that Satan needs God's approval for every person? No, but for those who have given their life to serving God, You can bet that Satan would not dare touch one of God's annointed without permission. Why would Satan do as God instructed? BECAUSE GOD TOLD HIM TOO. God can destroy him with a thought. God can bind him in torment for eternity. Like a disobedient child who is doing something that he knows is wrong, but when the Dad, starts counting"One......... Two........." You can believe before his Dad gets to three, the little boy is running to be where he is suppose to be. [/size][/font]
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]Again, the bible clearly states two things... I will even quote them here.[/size][/font]
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[font="tahoma][size="2"]One God gave Satan permission to afflict Job.[/size][/font]
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Job 1:12 [/size][/font][sup]12[/sup]And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
[font="tahoma][size="2"]And two, that Satan afflicted Job with the boils.[/size][/font]
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Job 2:6-7 [/size][/font][sup]6[/sup]And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. [sup]7[/sup]So went
Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and
smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
You can say that God smote Job with the boils, and I will admit that God gave permission, but the bible clearly states that Satan was the one who smote Job with the boils, not God. Does Job give God credit for doing this? Yes, and in a sense, he is not wrong, because Satan would not have been able to touch him, had God not given him his permission, but God was not the one to smite Job. Satan was.
Man does not have the power to smite other men with boils. Men do not have the power to make the wind blow to destroy houses, or make fire come down from Heaven. Neither does the 'flesh' or the carnal mind. They just don't have that power. I know that you believe differently. But consider this. You have to look at the scriptures, and consider all the scripture. The scripture states that Satan did this. That means that whatever you decide Satan is, he must have to power to accomplish all these things. If man does not have the power to accomplish all these things then man is not the Satan in this book. If the carnal mind does not have the power to accomplish all these things, then the carnal mind is not Satan in this book. The only other possibility that Satan could be is that he is a supernatural being, because only a supernatural being would have the power to do all the things that the book of Job says that Satan did.
When our understanding of scripture seems to come into conflict with what the scripture is saying, then we must change our understanding of scripture. At least to the point of saying, I do not know who Satan is in the book of Job, and I admit that it could possibly refer to a supernatural being. That doesn't change my understanding of the other scriptures, but you have a point.
Of course, if you allow for the possibility of Satan being a supernatural being in the book of Job, then you have to at least allow for the possibility for Satan being a supernatural being in the other places in the bible.
Remember the key to learning is to admit that we don't know everything and that we might be wrong in our interpretation. That doesn't mean that we can't defend our interpretation passionately. That doesn't mean that we have to accept any interpretation that comes along. It just means that we have to keep a humble spirit.
Take for instance the timing of the rapture. I fully believe that the rapture is pre-tribulational. But the pretribulational rapture doesn't answer every single question that I have, so I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong. I believe that it is possible for that rapture to be posttribulational and I believe that it is possible for the rapture to be mid-tribulational. I don't think it is, but I allow that possibility.
Conclusion: The bible is clear on certain things, and not so clear on others. One of the things that the bible is clear on is that Satan, whoever he is, with permission from God, afflicted Job with all kinds of troubles. In a sense, and as far as our discussion, it does not matter who or what Job says afflicted him, the discussion is not about Job's knowledge. It does not matter who Job's wife says afflicted Job, the discussion is not about Job's wife's knowledge, and the same can be said about his friends. The discussion is about what the Word of God says, and the Word of God states that Satan was the one to afflict Job in many different ways, that a man just does not have the power to do. To say that Satan was a man or that Satan was the carnal mind of Job is going against the clearly stated Word of God. The only other possibility is that Satan was and is a supernatural creature.
Joshua David