The problem with the thousand years?

[Timtofly]

And hearing that then let us also remember that the grandfather of Noah, Methuselah with the most years accounted to him in written scripture came up short not making it beyond the flood:

"And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died." Gen 5:25-27

Did he refuse to get on the ark, or did God not allow him to get on the ark?

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 12:28-29 KJV
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. [29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

There has not been one demon possession since the Cross then.

Your point is not that Satan has been bound, because that would have ceased all demon possession until a future point, even from now. Demon possession is indicative that Satan was not bound. Yes, Satan could have been bound, but the verse explains what would happen, not what did happen.

 

[Timtofly]

The idea of a spiritual "resurrection" is well known, and the assumption is always made that it's in the New Testament, but it's not in the New Testament, anywhere that the resurrection is spoken of. The "spiritual resurrection" that you have just claimed is manufactured in the factory of Amillennialism.

Not just amil. It is prevalent in Reformed Theology. There is a new song with a catchy tune by Baylor Wilson called "Jesus happened" that turns the Second Coming into the moment of Salvation. It is also a Preterist thing, as most claim the Second Coming already happened and happens each time at "salvation". I am not sure if historist hold to that.

Those who separate the physical resurrection from the spiritual birth, are now relegated to the futurist category. Some idealist tend to conflate the two, but still hold to a future Second Coming.

 

[amadeus]

Did he refuse to get on the ark, or did God not allow him to get on the ark?

If he was still alive when the door to the ark was closed with him on the outside then he must have drowned. According to my Bible he was not one of the 8 people who did get on board. I do not believe that God would have stopped him, if he had really wanted to enter in...

 

[bbyrd009]

If he was still alive when the door to the ark was closed with him on the outside then he must have drowned

why do you suspect that he might still have been alive? Is the math indicating that?

 

[Timtofly]

Yes. Let's get back to the dictionary and what it actually says:

Whenever it can, as a rule the Strong's Greek Dictionary gives other Greek words that are related to the word you are looking at. "Of uncertain affinity" means " it is not certain which other Greek word or words this word is related to".

A thousand is a unit (one unit) times a thousand, so it's automatically the plural of the unit. So the Strong's Greek Dictionary is telling us the obvious: that chílioi is the plural of a unit (one unit) because it's a unit (one unit) times a thousand (one thousand), and then just in case anyone's confused, Strong's tells us what chílioi means: It means a thousand, or thousand. It does not mean the plural of a thousand, it means the plural of a unit (a unit times a thousand).

We can't change the meaning of the words "a thousand" and "thousand" in the Strong's definition of the word chílioi just because we would like the definition to mean "plural of a thousand".

[*StrongsGreek*] 05507
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy plural of uncertain affinity;
a thousand:--thousand.

If that's what you were saying, I agree with you.

I do not agree that John was saying a thousand: thousand. That would be the plural form of uncertain affinity. John did not use a Greek word stating this as plural. It has a defined end, so not the word nor use you are trying to apply. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of which you are pulling your point, does not even give the Greek word, nor any uses for a single time in all of Scripture. (EDIT at least not in Bible Hub.)

I pointed out, in the first century it was not plausible to see time or years higher than 1000. There were literally only 4 such time periods or epochs known to man. Satan had not introduced evolution of millions of years at that point. John did not use a thousand: thousand for time in Revelation 20.

 

[Timtofly]

Okay is seams that nobody actually understands my view so I will lay it out for you in point forum

The thousand year reigning is symbolic of the church age.

The new heaven and the new earth is in the future

Read post numbers 43 & 56 to see that the reigning and the binding ends at different times so the reigning isn’t because of the binding because Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound.

The binding of satan is only mentioned from deceiving the nations.

According to the bible on the day of Pentecost the church grew from a room full of people to over 3000 people in one day of Jews from every nation under heaven.

These Jews then went back to every nation under heaven and spread the gospel.

Paul states 4 times in the bible that the gospel has spread though out the whole known world during his days which was about twenty to thirty years from the day of Pentecost and this is before fast travel phones and the internet. This is the perfect description of satan being bound by deceiving the nations.

Don’t bother trying to debate what the world exactly is I,m using the same words that the bible uses

The deceiving by satan being bound is by the power (the great chain)of the gospel as the gospel reveals who Jesus is and how He saves all that believes in Him.

So yes satan can still deceive those who reject the gospel and yes he can still be bound by deceiving the nations and still persecute the church and do evil at the same time because it’s not physical binding it’s spiritual which is more powerful and matters way more

The truth in this is the result which is that the church grew form a room full of Jews to millions of people from all nations being saved which is why we on this web site today are saved

If you don’t agree with me that’s fine and your choice but I choose to believe in the results of what the gospel has done

It’s not just about events the reigning and the binding is a message to the church

Your binding could be historical fact. It is just not described in Revelation 20. Revelation 20 is only about the post 42 months, that end with Armageddon.

You can apply Revelation 20 to anything in history. You just cannot remove Revelation 20 as John wrote it; post, Armageddon. There is still a future Millennium, no matter how many times you spiritually apply this passage to any history, including Creation itself. God did not let Satan act the first 1000 years of creation, if Satan started to think the second he was made in opposition to God.

My opinion is that Satan thought for those first 1000 years, and finally when God went back to work and created the Garden of Eden, Satan felt the need to give God a thousand years of input. Job was not Satan's first "rodeo". God allowed Satan to convince a third of the angels to rebel. God allowed Satan to tempt Eve. Obviously Satan probably decieved the sons of God into thinking Adam's descendants were worth creating "mixed offspring". The notion that these offspring were genetic giants points to Satan's "theory of evolution" and the mixing of corruption with incorruption. What could possibly go wrong when humans listen to Satan?

 

[Marty fox]

Did he refuse to get on the ark, or did God not allow him to get on the ark?

Perhaps he died before the flood came

 

[Marty fox]

Your binding could be historical fact. It is just not described in Revelation 20. Revelation 20 is only about the post 42 months, that end with Armageddon.

You can apply Revelation 20 to anything in history. You just cannot remove Revelation 20 as John wrote it; post, Armageddon. There is still a future Millennium, no matter how many times you spiritually apply this passage to any history, including Creation itself. God did not let Satan act the first 1000 years of creation, if Satan started to think the second he was made in opposition to God.

My opinion is that Satan thought for those first 1000 years, and finally when God went back to work and created the Garden of Eden, Satan felt the need to give God a thousand years of input. Job was not Satan's first "rodeo". God allowed Satan to convince a third of the angels to rebel. God allowed Satan to tempt Eve. Obviously Satan probably decieved the sons of God into thinking Adam's descendants were worth creating "mixed offspring". The notion that these offspring were genetic giants points to Satan's "theory of evolution" and the mixing of corruption with incorruption. What could possibly go wrong when humans listen to Satan?

Where do you get Armageddon in Revelation 20 the battle at Armageddon in Revelation 16 was the destruction of Babylon the great by the beast

 

[Timtofly]

If he was still alive when the door to the ark was closed with him on the outside then he must have drowned. According to my Bible he was not one of the 8 people who did get on board. I do not believe that God would have stopped him, if he had really wanted to enter in...

I would tend to agree. But we do not know the state of Methuselah's heart and mind, no matter how much credit we give him. Obviously he was not Enoch and he was not Noah. The only two humans we are told about who had faith in God.

 

[Marty fox]

Did Jesus save us physically with His physical death or spiritually?

 

[Truth7t7]

The reason we see their souls there. Is because they took part in the first resurrection, which is the passing from death to life. It is a spiritual resurrection, but don’t marvel as Jesus said, at the end there’s gonna be another resurrection, where those who are dead will be raised to condemnation.

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death/Resurrection) has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Timtofly]

Perhaps he died before the flood came

why do you suspect that he might still have been alive? Is the math indicating that?

It was the same year. No way to tell the exact month or day. Obviously unless he got on the ark, he died. If he had gotten on the ark, no one was turned away, as far as we know, he would have kept living. Nothing in Scripture claims Methuselah had to die at a certain year of life.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why are nations still fighting each other? Was Satan bound after the last 2 World Wars? Did the UN bind Satan, to try to stop nations from attacking each other?

You misrepresent my claim again, the battle is future and it will see the Lords return to battle, it has nothing to do with history or the UN

 

[Timtofly]

Where do you get Armageddon in Revelation 20 the battle at Armageddon in Revelation 16 was the destruction of Babylon the great by the beast

Revelation 19:16-21

"And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

This was the literal physical battle of Armageddon. Chapter 16 was the 3 spirits calling them to this physical battle. 17 and 18 was the symbolic application of the state of affairs the whole world was in at the end of those 42 months.

You cannot ignore the actual physical battle. You cannot separate the FP, the beast, and Satan from this physical event. The FP and the beast were tossed into the lake of fire. Satan was bound in the pit. This was the end of those 42 months to the hour.

The last hour was when the 10 kingdoms show up and join with Satan, the FP, and the beast. The battle was only an hour, because that was the only hour God allowed, the battle itself. Did the actual battle last for an hour? Hard to say. There was either time allowed for any to change their minds, or Jesus literally took an hour to kill every last one of them, instead of doing it instantly.

 

[Truth7t7]

Now the Millennium is a thousand thousand years long?

You went from no Millennium to a thousand thousand year Millennium.

Pretty sure the word is not plural, but singular how John wrote it.

Yes the word (Thousand) represents uncertain affinity, in the Lords spiritual realm of no literal time

Yes (The Souls) and (The Dead) seen in Revelation 20:4-6 are in this uncertain affinity of the Lords spiritual realm, not on earth in a Millennial Kingdom as many claim

 

[Timtofly]

Did Jesus save us physically with His physical death or spiritually?

Both

 

[Timtofly]

You misrepresent my claim again, the battle is future and it will see the Lords return to battle, it has nothing to do with history or the UN

If the binding is still future, why refute a literal future event?

Is the outcome only a spiritual conflict in Paradise? Are there nations decieved in Paradise?

 

[Timtofly]

Yes the word (Thousand) represents uncertain affinity, in the Lords spiritual realm of no literal time

Yes (The Souls) and (The Dead) seen in Revelation 20:4-6 are in this uncertain affinity of the Lords spiritual realm, not on earth in a Millennial Kingdom as many claim

Says one human on earth.

That is not even what John wrote in the original Greek. There is no uncertain affinity in the whole book of Revelation.

Where is the poster pointing out about adding plagues to those who change the Word of God when it comes to Revelation?

 

[amadeus]

why do you suspect that he might still have been alive? Is the math indicating that?

I really don't suspect that he was:

A long time ago I started building a chart using an Excel program in my computer. My chart used one row for each year from 3761BC moving downward to the birth of Jesus.

From left to right in each column I entered the name of each person in the lineage on the line of the row of the year, or estimated year, that he was born. starting with Adam and moving to right to Jesus the son of Mary. I estimated years of birth when none were available in scripture which was frequently the case in order to get all of names into the chart. I started from the top at 3761BC [estimated date from some Jewish source as a starting point for Adam] and moved down at one year per row to zero [used as year of Jesus birth]. I was working on adjustments to properly fit in people for whom the age at death and at the time of the birth of the next descendant were available.

According to my chart with Noah's year of birth set in the year Methuselah was 352 years old, Methuselah would have died more than 10 years after the flood...LOL That is simply where I stopped my work... I have nothing so far to show how old Methuselah when Noah was born. Apparently the flood occurred when Noah was 600 years old. Did Methuselah die that year or prior to that year?

I was using estimates and making adjustments as I came across better information or information that showed some of my entries were impossible. That was many years ago and I have never gotten back to work on it.

I still have that chart and many other charts, calendars and resources from various places and books to help my work on it still saved in my computer. Perhaps one day, if I live so long, I will go back and work on it some more. LOL