Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Grailhunter]

Anybody want a sure- fire way to find themselves in Eternal Flames after you die? When God asks you why He should let you into His Heaven , just stand before Him and say, ”Well,I tried to be good—- I did the best job that I could!” No mention of Jesus and what He did....No mention of Believing the Gospel....no mention of the Shed Blood.....”

Again you are creating a topic that is not in the discussion. No one is going to tell Christ that they deserve heaven because they were good...but if you arrive there after living a sinful life and a ton of sins to your credit, that could send you to hell.
Christ does not condone sin. Revelation is all about what He is going to do with sin and evildoers.
Christianity is not a religion of sin and sin some more and be rewarded with heaven.
Be good and do good.

 

[Grailhunter]

It’s the oldest lesson of the Bible and God will reject YOU and what YOU did just as fast as He rejected Cain and what “ he” did for God......Salvation is Found in what God did for Fallen man....NOT what YOU did for God....

Again false topic....no one is saying we are doing anything for God.....
And there are a lot of lessons you need to learn from the Bible.....Obeying Christ is not doing anything for Him. The lesson in the Bible that you need to learn, is that we are told repeatedly to obey Him. Disobedience and sin is not the way to heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

Once again , it’s all about “ Lucky Repentance” —— If you had the good fortune and the Super Memory to make sure that there were no remaining sins on your “ repentance ledger” , you are good to go.....one unrepentant sin at your death and you are doomed.....what utter Hogwash .....it’s all of Grace, Newbies.....NOT “ Lucky Repentance”.....

Ya and if sinning means nothing you would never remember it. Way remember it if you believe you are going to heaven no matter what you do. License to sin and get rewarded for it.

 

[Grailhunter]

I get told that I use the pages of the Bible for toilet paper....I get told that I purposely mislead those New to the Faith, causing them to go to Hell.....I could go on....I think you get my point....

The truth hurts?

 

[Addy]

Here is what it all comes down to--- and you'd better get it right! Title of this thread

1. Know who you are IN Christ. The bible is FILLED to overflowing with promises for HIS kids.

2. Know who your Saviour is and is NOT... Spend time with HIM ... He desires you to develop a loving relationship with HIM. This relationship is going to be the crux of your existence.

3. Be patient with yourself... Rome was not built in a day. You will slip and fall... Cry out to Jesus to help you. He is a mere breath away. Don't give up.

4. Be humble in everything you do... treat others in your life with respect and dignity.

5. Do not judge others.... that is NOT your job... You do have permission to observe another Christian.. and decide for yourself if they are living a life that is pleasing to God.. but that is more for your protection and awareness... YOU do not have the right to judge who is and is NOT saved. GUARD your heart.

6. Develop the attitude of GRATITUDE.... Gratitude births JOY... Give thanks in ALL things... Be of good courage and remember... when you experience trials in your life... continue to give thanks. Sorrow and suffering are sisters... and they are teachers... embrace them when they arrive. They will only ever be with you for a season. They are great builders of FAITH.

7. WORSHIP.... WORSHIP... WORSHIP... Sing to the Lord... Dance before the Lord... Shout before the LORD.

8. Stay away from those who would venture to STEAL your joy and judge you... Many Christians will try and bring you down... Don't let them!

9. If someone corrects you... pray... meditate and then decide if that correction was in due season. The world of Christianity is filled to overflowing with those who desire to correct you.

10. BE absolutely CONFIDENT that you cannot lose your salvation.. and BELIEVE that God will be faithful to FINISH the work in you that HE has begun. ( when you first became a believer. )

BE FREE....BE filled with JOY... BE at PEACE.... BE STILL and KNOW that HE is GOD

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is Christianity in a nutshell, “Christianity 101” —— you are dirty.....only Jesus can clean you up and make you fit for Heaven.... He does that “for” you if you Believe that He died for you Sins and rose from the Grave....Believe that “ Gospel” and God will put His Spirit in you and Transform you into the Image Of His Son....making you a New Creation with a New Heart That has new desires......Chief among them is wanting to live a life that pleases God..... People will just about always do what they want—— God Changes “your “ Wants so that they line up with His...it can take a while.....Your task is to continue in the way that you started—- Faith in the Promises Of God.....You do the Faith Part ( Keep Trusting In Jesus)

and God will do HIS Part.....He will “ Save you to the Uttermost”.......

Any Questions?

Ya...
So are you saying that someone that believes in Christ can commit all manner of sin...lifelong...lifestyle can go to heaven?
Homosexuals
drug users
abortionists
murderers
child molesters
rapists
etc

Are we going to spend eternity with these people in heaven?

 

[Grailhunter]

It’s not a matter of “ preference” .....it’s God’s way to show that Paul was speaking for Jesus when he wrote his Letters...it was to show the world that anything Paul wrote had God’s blessing....Paul’s Words had all of the Authority that the Words Of Jesus

Most of the scriptures that people give you about obedience and warnings about not sinning....come from Paul.
It goes beyond any sense of sanity that you just do not get it.

 

[Grailhunter]

you dismiss the value of Pauls ministry to your own detriment....

No one is dismissing Paul's ministry....you just cherry pick what he said and try to make it a religion.

 

[Brakelite]

I am fully aware that brethren correct brethren.... It's a thing...
There is a right way to do this... but so many choose to ABUSE this.
Too many Christians desiring to wash their hands from the blood.
Anyways... you and I will NOT agree on this... so... BLESS you.

I know this was early in the thread, and I appreciate you have had a history where the process was distorted and you were hurt... Even by family. But what do you disagree with amigo about? He laid out the correct procedure. Do you throw the baby out with the bathwater because some get it wrong?

 

[Addy]

But what do you disagree with amigo about?

I agree there is a proper way to correct ( the biblical one)... which is supposed to happen in the church setting... and between one another.
I do not agree with the constant trumpet blasting regarding warning and correcting. I have had this conversation with him.

If someone within the church is living a sinful "lifestyle"... I absolutely agree the church should be taking that person aside and correcting them. There is a concise biblical formula for HOW to do this. My problem is that much of the time... this is NOT happening.

I do not agree with random Christians calling out sin in people they don't even know... or love... (they say they are correcting in love because they are polite)... I also don't believe in correcting sin that has already been repented for privately between offender and God. The issue I have is with judging someone as unsaved.

Correction is a much abused thing in the Christian world. That is how I see it.

 

[Grailhunter]

What is this discussion about and what is it not?
I know of no one that has accused anyone of any particular sin.
I have seen no one particular sin discussed that was being committed by anybody. So that is not happening here.
If I missed it, sorry.

We are discussing theology and Christians beliefs. This particular topic can ruin lives and lead people to hell so it gets serious.
No one is saying that being good and doing good has anything do with being initially saved, everyone agrees that, that is through Christ.
I am saying that being good and doing good is what Christians are repeatedly told to do. Being good and doing good is obedience to Christ. I mean really, what is the alternative that is being proposed here by some.
I am saying that sinful lifestyles can lead to hell...whether they believe in Christ or not.
I am not saying that sinful lifestyles cannot be forgiven. Even towards the end someone that has committed the worst of horrible sins or a sinful lifestyle can repent and be forgiven. That is all depends on sincerity and Christ will know the intentions and truths of the heart and will judge according. But that is Christ's choice to send that Christian to heaven or hell. I do contend that a change of heart at the last minute and expecting forgiveness is very risky, because, could someone like Hitler or serial killers change their character in that last few moments of their life? Not saying I know, but I would debate it.
I am saying that repentance is required to be initially saved. That repentance is not only acknowledging that you have sinned but a commitment to obey and be good and do good....the best you can. Salvation was not designed for perfection. Then after one is saved and commits sins, that repentance is required to get those sins forgiven. Again a commitment not to keep doing the same sin over and over again. It is not wrong for Christ to expect us to learn from our mistakes...we maybe slow learners but...
No one here is saying that you have to be perfect to go to heaven.
Then again, heaven is not going to be full of evildoers.
No one is saying that being good and doing good is salvation. It is obedience to Christ. And the Bible says over and over again that we should obey Christ and our deeds will be judged.
Alternatively sins can lead to hell, particularly lifestyle sins because you cannot repent for something you intend to do or even continue to do. You cannot play Christ for a fool. You cannot con Christ, he know the heart and the intent.
I do contend that your average Christian will show up on Judgment Day and pass with flying colors.
In regard to sins, what is being discussed here is mostly lifestyle sins.

The disclaimer....if you are so messed up in the head that you cannot control your actions....that is still between you and Christ on Judgment Day and that is up to Him. On the other hand if this is you, and you cannot control your actions, you need to seek psychiatric help, because who knows what harm you could do to yourself or others.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have to say, though, that the idea of willfully sinning in unbelief puzzles me. To my way of studying, there are two types of sin: Forgivable and unforgivable. That seems to be the way Jesus lays it out.

Jesus taught us that willful, unrepentant unbelief is the unforgivable sin. It puzzles me insofar as why people choose to reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit that they know is true and prefer instead to live a temporary life of love of sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was raised Southern Baptist, and I know I've told this story before so I'll try to keep it short, but eternal security didn't work for me, mentally. I was always worried that I might not have been sincere enough when I last gave my heart to Jesus, so I was constantly getting re-saved just to be sure, which I never was. It was a vicious cycle that wore me to a frazzle. I would see myself fall to temptation and then think "I must never have been saved to begin with" because that was what I heard at church. I have so much more assurance of favor with God and His watchcare over me now that I've become a classical Arminian that I would never go back to "eternal (in)security." None for me, thanks.

You could try the new OSAS. In it you're saved because you say you are. As long as you think you are saved all is good. Even if your life is screaming out loud that you haven't an ounce of God's grace of salvation in you. Thinking you're saved, despite all the outward evidence that you are not, is the believing that saves in that theology. As long as you have that 'believing', you are saved. Try it. You might like it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God may have made you “ more fortunate” than the drunk......he may have given you a break....

We can stop his rant right here, because that's all I was saying, people.

"...by the grace of God I am what I am..." 1 Corinthians 15:10​

 

[Addy]

Jesus taught us that ALL sins are forgiven through HIM and HIM alone. People think the unforgivable sin is being in some sort of sinful act...
But REJECTING the BLOOD ATONEMENT as the ONLY qualifying factor for SALVATION in my opinion is the unforgivable sin... Again..
It's got NOTHING to do with us and EVERYTHING to do with HIM....

If you are bringing your GOOD works before the Lord as proof of how good you've been... you are slapping the Lord in the face with your filthy rags.... His blood is the ONLY "good" thing. So good as a matter of fact that it saves ALL sinners who belong to HIM. AMAZING isn't it???

 

[Addy]

I am better than the drunk down the street. By God's grace I am in fact better than the drunk down the street. I do not get drunk. I will not minimize what is factually true about me to placate and soothe someone who has yet to experience the grace that I have experienced. My responsibility is to not look down on those who have yet to walk in God's grace, not minimize the grace I have received.

For review.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God has promised to “ FINISH the work that HE Started”

Jesus took it upon himself to make sure that He present us as “ Blameless” before His Father

Two great Promises to “ hang your hat on”

Two great reasons why we should continue to believe and not turn back in unbelief.

"Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23

"...since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens...let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14​

 

[Addy]

LOVE HIM.... TRUST HIM.... THANK HIM... PRAISE HIM...WORSHIP HIM... the more you do this... the MORE you will KNOW HIM and become like HIM...
Easy peasy.... RESTING in HIM.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

By The Works Of The Law, NO man will be justified”...... this is what you are doing, although I know you will try to deny it.

I guess it did not occur to him that perhaps a person is being justified by their works in the way James means that, not Paul...

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...you are trying to establish your OWN Righteousness instead of doing it God’s way by putting your Faith in HIS Righteousness.

No, lol. My works show that I have the righteousness of God in salvation. My works do not earn salvation on the merit of my own righteousness. The Bible exhorts us to seek to validate our calling and election by doing good works. That way you can see for yourself if you really have the grace of God in salvation in you.