Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Ferris Bueller]

Of course , you can scratch ALL of this good stuff if you committed a “WILLFUL Sin”— Right?

....in unbelief. You keep leaving off that part of the argument.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My wife and 3/4 kids are arminians as are most of my christian friends and pastors I know. The reality is that it has no effect on my day to day life and interaction with others. Afterall God does the saving and my responsibility is to reflect Gods love towards others and share the gospel when He opens the door. Sometimes it gets brought up in our small group bible studies but I always present both sides ( i use to be arminian) and let them decide where God leads them.

I have a quick story to share where our arminian pastor who was preaching through the book of Ephesians for the first time. He could not escape the fact in Ephesians 1 about predestination, Gods choosing, election etc. He said when I read Ephesians 1 he is a calvinist lol.

I've fellowshipped with Calvinists with no problem. Our differing theologies talk about curious, but for the most part, meaningless theological points that don't determine unity in the Spirit. I had great fellowship in a church where we mostly did not know who was Calvinist and who was not, because we were too busy worshiping and praising the Lord and learning how to enjoy and live for him in daily life.

Would you fellowship with and receive someone into the church who called themselves a brother/sister but who is living in an unrepentant, purposeful lifestyle of sin, like adultery or devil worship or drunkenness or drug abuse? I'm not talking about real believers and their struggle with sin. I'm talking about people who brag on the grace of God and how they believe in it but purposely choose to chase after sin. In my theology and yours that is an unbeliever, not a born again person:

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:9-10
​

John says we are not to be deceived about this. But it seems most Christians, even Calvinists, are.

 

[Addy]

@Ferris... that last post earned you permanent residence on IGNORE... eternal purgatory... LOL
Your ARROGANCE and PRIDE is a bit too offensive to read.

 

[Addy]

Anyone else interested???

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Shakes head at HYPER GRACE... I wonder how much GRACE is acceptable to use... GOOD GRIEF.

Only that which is available. God's grace does not cover the unrepentant sinner living in the willful sin of his unbelief and rejection of Christ. Hyper Grace says it does.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris... that last post earned you permanent residence on IGNORE... eternal purgatory... LOL
Your ARROGANCE and PRIDE is a bit too offensive to read.

Bye, bye!

 

[ChristisGod]

I've fellowshipped with Calvinists with no problem. Our differing theologies talk about curious, but for the most part, meaningless theological points that don't determine unity in the Spirit. I had great fellowship in a church where we mostly did not know who was Calvinist and who was not, because we were too busy worshiping and praising the Lord and learning how to enjoy and live for him in daily life.

Would you fellowship with and receive someone into the church who called themselves a brother/sister but who is living in an unrepentant, purposeful lifestyle of sin, like adultery or devil worship or drunkenness or drug abuse? I'm not talking about real believers and their struggle with sin. I'm talking about people who brag on the grace of God and how they believe in it but purposely choose to chase after sin. In my theology and yours that is an unbeliever, not a born again person:

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:9-10
​

John says we are not to be deceived about this. But it seems most Christians, even Calvinists, are.

We agree !

FYI- most calvinist I know personally do not by into the grace covers our sin and its ok to sin because of Gods grace argument. Grace is NEVER a license to sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Whew ! I am sure glad that I don’t subscribe to THAT False Doctrine! I believe in SUPER Progressive Hyper Grace! Let me know if you find a Doctrine that Further elevates God’s Grace! I will be on- board!

If, as you say, God's grace covers willful, unrepentant unbelief in the 'believer' (that's called an oxymoron), what else is there for it to cover?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“As long as the Holy Spirit is in us ....” As if the Spirit comes and goes a dozen times a day...

Hmm....I don't recall raising that argument in that post. Don't assume that's what I was driving at.

 

[Addy]

It's been a very rough day today... my niece's brother died yesterday... she is only 30 years old... and he was in his 40's...
I am left wondering about his spiritual state...

My niece and her brother ( the one who just died )... come from this very kind of upbringing... the legalistic ... angry God that expects his children to behave like soldiers in the army... when they left home...they wanted nothing to do with God.... because of all the judgement and finger pointing... plus all the hypocrisy that legalism births.

Over the years I have tried to clean up the DAMAGE done... but when someone gets a bad taste in their mouths from very NASTY Christians.. it seems to linger and settle in quite deep.

I really do not understand the arrogance and pride that lives in so many believers hearts... it just oozes out in every word they type. I am so grateful that I understand I am no better than that drunk.. or prostitute. It keeps me grounded.

I am thinking of the story that Barny told yesterday about that wretched thief on the cross... who asked Jesus to remember him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You get the Holy Spirit the very second that you Believe .

Everybody knows this.

You make the Holy Spirit sound like some kind of Spiritual Stomach That must constantly be emptied and then refilled.

I know you don't do well with reading comprehension and so you missed what I said in my post. The manifest felt presence of the Holy Spirit is what comes and goes. Believers are always indwelt with the Holy Spirit. What believers need to do is seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit:

"18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to reckless indiscretion. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Ephesians 5:18​

Most believers do not know this. And so they take comfort out of just knowing they have the Holy Spirit in them in salvation and never experience the abundant life of the Spirit Christ said he died to give them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am so grateful that I understand I am no better than that drunk.. or prostitute.

If you are born again you ARE better than the drunk and the prostitute. God MADE you better than that. No true believer is purposely walking the streets in prostitution or purposely getting drunk. They may be struggling with it, but no believer purposely seeks to live like that. That's what God's super abundant grace does to a person. God's super abundant grace does not make it so a person can purposely continue to live in their old life of sin in unbelief and remain saved at the same time.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's not grinding an ax. These Progressive Hyper Grace people talk a good talk until they get to the hieratical part of their theology. And it's not just a meaningless point of theology. Their theology teaches that you can choose to purposely live in sin in unbelief and you are still saved as long as you had believed somewhere in the past. It's a damnable theology of the highest order. But because they talk a good talk about God's grace they slip right under the radar of true believers. Would you take your kids to a church that taught them (behind your back) that their sin doesn't mean anything in regard to whether or not they are actually saved or not?

You know me fairly well by now. What do you think?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Uh, yes he does.
This Hyper Grace garbage is very insidious. Don't be fooled. It sneaks in unawares...

"4For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4
​

Hyper Grace theology talks a good talk about grace, until it gets to the part that says we can turn our back on Christ in unbelief and purposely sin and we are still saved.

The term "hyper grace" must be a misnomer because my idea of "grace" is like the following story. A little girl and her father sit down to play the piano. Her father teaches her the basic melody. Every once in awhile she strikes the wrong note, but her father is playing the chords over the top, helping her make beautiful music.

Paul describes Jesus' death on the cross as "hyper grace" (Romans 5), but what you describe is a little girl, having grown up, never playing another song with father again.

Thanks for the warning Ferris.

Blessings.

 

[Addy]

HA ... I thought Barny was talking to himself... I guess that is one of the perks of Ignore... you can't even see people's quotes.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You know me fairly well by now. What do you think?

Exactly!
I'm trying to wake you up to what he's teaching and get you to stop receiving him in some kind of ecumenical spirit of the world. The person who believes and lives Hyper Grace theology has no part of Christ and us.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The term "hyper grace" must be a misnomer because my idea of "grace" is like the following story. A little girl and her father sit down to play the piano. Her father teaches her the basic melody. Every once in awhile she strikes the wrong note, but her father is playing the chords over the top, helping her make beautiful music.

Paul describes Jesus' death on the cross as "hyper grace" (Romans 5), but what you describe is a little girl, having grown up, never playing another song with father again.

Thanks for the warning Ferris.

Blessings.

Good analogy.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

HA ... I thought Barny was talking to himself... I guess that is one of the perks of Ignore... you can't even see people's quotes.

It's extremely childish to think you somehow hurt people when you put them on ignore. Actually, for a person your age it probably falls into the category of narcissistic. It's doesn't hurt us for you not to pay attention to us. You're not that special. No one is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and many Christians seem to think they have the right to be the SIN POLICE... all the while... neglecting to "know thyself" and missing the huge log in their own eye.

"First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:5 ​

Jesus was not saying you can never remove the speck from your brother's eye. He said take the log out of your own eye, first, then remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Apparently, Jesus thinks Christians do have the right to, as you put it, be sin police. Just don't do it when you have a log in your own eye. You sound just like the 'defund the police' liberal progressives ruining our country today. 'Progressive' means 'progressive in liberal thought'. The 'Progressive' theological label you mocked in another post represents exactly the progressive, lawless liberal thought that is sweeping across the world today. This same spirit of rebellion is in the church. It's a sign of the times. The end times:

"...when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise." Daniel 8:23​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You say “ Obedience does not Save” yet then you turn around and say that without it ( being bad) you will,go to Hell......Don't you see how that makes no sense?

It makes no sense to you because you do not understand James 2:24. It's not a contradiction of Paul's teaching. It is an additional understanding of justification. An understanding that you do not possess.