I have a question that remains unanswered:

[Robert Gwin]

You are confusing the person of God (the Father) and the fact that Jesus in essence is equally divine as His Father! He is not THE God which is the Father, but He is God- just as divine as His Father in nature though subordinate to him iin authority.

Jesus is simply not equal to Jehovah, no spirit being or human or any other of the creation is ever referred to as being equal to God on any level. Jesus and Jehovah are both spirit beings however, and Jesus has the special privilege of being the beginning of His creation, being created solely by Jehovah's hands as nothing else existed.

 

[Wrangler]

And His name is called the Word of God.(Jesus per John 1:1, 14)"

John 1:1 does not mention Jesus. A word is a WHAT not a WHO.

 

[Robert Gwin]

But what then is God? Do people in their hearts agree on a single definition that fits and satisfies everyone without doubt?

Is God without beginning and without end? Does the follow verse refer to God?

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:13

And then consider these things with regard to God:

Omnipotent [all powerful]:
“I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee” Job 42:2

“God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.” Psalm 62:11

“Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.” Psalm 147:5

“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

Omniscient [all knowing]:
“Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?” Job 31:4

“For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings.

There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.” Job 34:21-22

“O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.

Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” Psalm 139:1-6

“Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” Heb 4:13

‘For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.’ I John 3:20”

“I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.” Job 42:2

Omnipresent [present everywhere]:
“The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.” Prov 15:3

“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.” Psalm 139:7-10

“Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.” Jerem 23:24

It is impossible for us to understand Amad, but yes God is without beginning or end. Now being the owner of a Geo Metro, I can understand that something might not have an end, but I know for a fact that it had a beginning. We believe and teach that Jehovah had no beginning, which in my opinion is an understood fact that our human minds may never be able to comprehend Ecc 3:11

 

[Robert Gwin]

@Robert Gwin

Not a lie if each man effectively judges himself as he applies, or fails to apply, what God has spoken... [that is, the Word of God]!

When did God speak all of His Word applicable to men?

Indeed, if 100% God as commonly stated, how could Jesus not know what the Father knew? Does God change? Does God learn? So then split Jesus into two parts or consider that Jesus was not God as his Father was God. Hmmm? Consider this! Must we know the answer definitely?

Jesus said God is a spirit while he was on earth sir, and Jehovah's voice came out of heaven at Jesus' baptism, for many to testify about, I personally believe them.

 

[Wrangler]

Is it called the Wrath of Jesus, or the Wrath of God? Then why do we see Jesus delivering this Wrath?

I've addressed this in may threads. The Bible is filled of Person X doing things through Person Y. For instance, it was actually angels, and not God, who destroyed Sodom & Gomorra. Only in the case of Jesus do trinitarians suppose Being Y must be Being X if Being Y is doing the Will of Being X.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Did He lie in these verses?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:58)

I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:9)​

Was Isaiah lying in this verse?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)​

Are these questions worth asking, in light of the OP?

id He lie in these verses?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:58)

What was the question Jesus was answering here sir?
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

How are they one?
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:9)

What did Jesus mean?

 

[GEN2REV]

While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come.

Anti-biblical. This is a pure trinitarian assertion beyond the text of the word of God.

I'm not trinitarian.

1. Jesus is in the flesh when He says it. Is He not?
2. He plainly states that 'Only the Father knows the time of the end.' Does He not?

Where did I step outside of the Word of God?

A difficult concept for us to fathom.

Contradictions are not difficult to fathom but non-existent in reality.

What is the contradiction?

 

[Wrangler]

You are confusing the person of God (the Father) and the fact that Jesus in essence is equally divine as His Father!

First, there is only one God, not 2 or 3 or any other number. Second, Jesus' divinity is not a fact. Jesus died.

 

[Wrangler]

Did He lie in these verses?

The verses you cite do not claim divinity - even though trinitarians wish that is the proper interpretation.

 

[Wrangler]

This is admittedly a concept that is hard to fully understand from our human awareness.

See Appeal to Ignorance.

 

[GEN2REV]

And His name is called the Word of God.(Jesus per John 1:1, 14)"

John 1:1 does not mention Jesus. A word is a WHAT not a WHO.

Yeah, you make this claim on a lot of other threads as well, FULLY ignoring verse 14 there which PLAINLY proves that The Word, spoken of in verse 1, is ABSOLUTELY Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

1. Jesus is in the flesh when He says it. Is He not?
2. He plainly states that 'Only the Father knows the time of the end.' Does He not?

Where did I step outside of the Word of God?

You know where. The idea that Jesus is not in the flesh now is not in the Bible.

 

[GEN2REV]

I've addressed this in may threads. The Bible is filled of Person X doing things through Person Y. For instance, it was actually angels, and not God, who destroyed Sodom & Gomorra. Only in the case of Jesus do trinitarians suppose Being Y must be Being X if Being Y is doing the Will of Being X.

Again, I'm not trinitarian.

It's more than just one person doing the will of another. It's titles given and witnesses, etc.

Who is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, Wrangler? Is it one person or multiple?

Is it the Father who rides on a white horse bringing God's Wrath in Revelation?

Instead of 20 posts with nothing but nay-saying, how bout take the time to explain your position fully using scripture like the rest of us.

Nobody cares how many times you've done it in other threads. We're discussing it here and now. Are we just supposed to take YOUR word for it?

 

[Wrangler]

Yeah, you make this claim on a lot of other threads as well, FULLY ignoring verse 14

I am not ignoring v14 but responding to the claim v1 proves Jesus is God. Verse 20:31 proves the entire Gospel of John was written to prove Jesus is the Messiah, the chosen son of God. This logically means that NOTHING John wrote is meant to prove anything else. All the Gospels testify to the ministry of the man Jesus.

Getting back to verse 14, all the prophets speak the words of God. Jesus is not unique in this manner. Verse 14 tells us God fulfilled his promise in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. Nothing more.

The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book in the entire collection of anti-trinitarian books. Jesus, himself, explicitly says his father is the one true God in 17:3. In John 20:17, the resurrected Jesus tells us he has not yet gone to his God. Revelations 1:1 tells us God granted the resurrected man Jesus a revelation. I believe Jesus. Why don't you?

 

[Wrangler]

Again, I'm not trinitarian.

If it walks like a duck ...

 

[Wrangler]

Is it the Father who rides on a white horse bringing God's Wrath in Revelation?

Classic Trinitarian Appeal to Diversion. This thread is not about Revelation but Jesus admitting his limited knowledge to another, which proves he is not the Supreme Being.

 

[Wrangler]

how bout take the time to explain your position fully using scripture like the rest of us.

See thread on Case Against Trinitarianism.

 

[Wrangler]

Yeah, you make this claim on a lot of other threads as well, FULLY ignoring verse 14 there which PLAINLY proves that The Word, spoken of in verse 1, is ABSOLUTELY Jesus Christ.

This is another trinitarian tactic; synthesize doctrine by piecing together bits of Scripture. Any doctrine can be 'supported' that way. The word of God is of God, not the flesh who utters it. Simple.

 

[amadeus]

It is impossible for us to understand Amad, but yes God is without beginning or end. Now being the owner of a Geo Metro, I can understand that something might not have an end, but I know for a fact that it had a beginning. We believe and teach that Jehovah had no beginning, which in my opinion is an understood fact that our human minds may never be able to comprehend Ecc 3:11

"He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end." Ecc 3:11

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

But then...

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

 

[GEN2REV]

1. Jesus is in the flesh when He says it. Is He not?
2. He plainly states that 'Only the Father knows the time of the end.' Does He not?

Where did I step outside of the Word of God?

You know where. The idea that Jesus is not in the flesh now is not in the Bible.

Hopefully, we need not argue that Jesus is in heaven presently.

His body is not corruptible flesh like ours anymore, it is a celestial (heavenly) body.

"Not all flesh is the same: ... There are ... heavenly (celestial) bodies and ... earthly (corruptible flesh) bodies ..." -the splendor (glory) of one is not the same as the other.
1 Corinthians 15:39-40
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (heaven)."
1 Corinthians 15:50
"God is a Spirit. ..."
John 4:24

First Corinthians 15:35–49 describes what the body of the believer will be like in heaven. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. The apostle Paul also states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (verse 49). Paul discusses this subject again in 2 Corinthians, where he compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2 Corinthians 5:1–2). Paul says that, once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2 Corinthians 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2 Corinthians 5:4).

So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (John 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Revelation 21:3–4; 22:4)

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.orgDoes Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.org