Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

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Gospel Believer

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The mistake most Christians make is they think all this means they do not have to do anything the law says, period. But, as I'm showing that's not what not being under the law means at all. Not even close! In fact, Paul is very clear when he says faith in Christ upholds/establishes the law of Moses—Romans 3:31. Christians simply do not know what that means. Most seem to not even know Paul said that.


I’ve sent this out before.....apologies to those that have seen it before.....I figure there might be a Newbie or two out there that it might benefit.....now looks like a good time to throw it out there again.....

Many people wonder what I think about the law. As I continue to relentlessly preach grace they seem to jump to the conclusion that I hate the law and that I believe the law is no longer relevant.

Let me address this concern by saying this – I think the same thing the apostles thought about the law.

Here are just a few verses that describe what they thought of the law, as recorded throughout the New Testament. I encourage you to take time and go through them, check them in context, I have, and I am very confident of what the New Testament writers had to say about the law. I know it’s a relatively long list but it’s well worth it.

As a disclaimer, if this list makes you angry, please hear me out to the end. I actually love the law and so did the writers of the NT – so long as it remains in its rightful place!

What the NT authors had to say
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

(As a side – that’s some fighting talk – no wonder the author of Hebrews remains anonymous to this day!)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
And how about that part “under grace”?
The grace of God's forgiveness makes it so you are not under the condemnation of the law anymore. Acts of the Apostles 13:39

The grace of God in the crucifying of the flesh makes it so the law no longer seizes the opportunity to make me sin. Romans 7:8

The grace of God in fulfilling the requirements of the Sabbath and Festival cycle makes it so I am no longer obligated to do through the literal letter of the law that which has already been done for me through Christ and His Sacrifice. 1 Corinthians 5:7-8

The grace of God in the giving of the Holy Spirit set me free from the powerlessness of mere written words alone to live a holy life. Romans 7:6

For me, to be under grace, what does it mean? I think this needs a thread of its own and have the brethren to post their insights. Anyway, just to respond, let me just do this post here.

Charis = grace, favor

The word Charis contains the idea of kindness which bestows upon one what he has not deserved.

To be under grace, God’s grace that is,
and no longer under law, that is the written code of the Mosaic Law, would in general terms mean to be living under the dominion, leading, and guidance of the Holy Spirit whom God, by His favor and loving kindness, freely gives and sent to dwell with and in His children, in individual and collective terms, and will no longer be under the precepts of the law.

Tong
R4330
 

Tong2020

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FHII

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In fact, Paul is very clear when he says faith in Christ upholds/establishes the law of MosesRomans 3:31. Christians simply do not know what that means. Most seem to not even know Paul said that.
Well, here's what Paul really said:

Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We establish the law, but through faith.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)
...for justification.

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it.
...for justification.

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)
...for justification.

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)
...for justification.

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant
...for justification.


But, if you keep the royal law found in scripture, you do well...

"If you really fulfill the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”c you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." James 2:8-9
 

Grailhunter

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Well, here's what Paul really said:

Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We establish the law, but through faith.

Define "establish the law"
 

Ferris Bueller

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To be under grace, God’s grace that is,
and no longer under law, that is the written code of the Mosaic Law, would in general terms mean to be living under the dominion, leading, and guidance of the Holy Spirit whom God, by His favor and loving kindness, freely gives and sent to dwell with and in His children, in individual and collective terms, and will no longer be under the precepts of the law.
Which law in some way does not find fulfillment through the grace of faith?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17
 

Ferris Bueller

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Define "establish the law"
Maybe this will help understand what it means to establish the law...

"Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love. For he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." Romans 13:8

"All that matters is faith, expressed through love." Galatians 5:6
Faith expressed through the 'keeping' of the law. Faith 'keeps' the law.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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No, I am not saying that. ↓↓↓
Don't get slippery now.
This what you said: "The plan is predetermined, not who participates in it."
>> Predestination involves who participates in it, the appointed and itbers who asaiat in that process

Then you said:
"Don't confuse that with God who, in his foreknowledge, knows ahead of time who will believe in Christ and, therefore, be chosen to participate in that predetermined plan."

I think you got a little twisted up there brother.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
To those who know the Law, Paul said, the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives. That means he is bound by the Law. Paul said of the Christian, that he have become dead to the Law through the body of Christ. As such he is no longer bound by the law; he is free and released from the Law and no longer is held by it. He is no longer under the dominion of the Law; no longer have under the authority and control of the law; the law no longer have power over him; the law no longer rule over him.
The mistake most Christians make is they think all this means they do not have to do anything the law says, period. But, as I'm showing that's not what not being under the law means at all. Not even close! In fact, Paul is very clear when he says faith in Christ upholds/establishes the law of Moses—Romans 3:31. Christians simply do not know what that means. Most seem to not even know Paul said that.

<<<The mistake most Christians make is they think all this means they do not have to do anything the law says, period. >>>

Perhaps. To those who do, just think about this. The law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good. Not that we are no longer under the law means that it is okay to not follow the applicable commandments and precepts contained in the Law of Moses.

<<<Paul is very clear when he says faith in Christ upholds/establishes the law of Moses—Romans 3:31.>>>

If we look closely at that, it is about faith in Christ that Paul was talking about there rather than the law. He was pointing out that faith in Christ establishes the law.

Now what does Paul says about faith in connection to the law? How does faith in Christ establishes the law?

Tong
R4332
 

Grailhunter

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Faith in Christ fulfills the requirements of the law, not casts them down and away.

Well there is no doubt that the Jews live and still practice Judaism.
There are sects of Judaism that are more orthodox. But still you cannot practice the Mosaic Law today. As a whole they do not sacrifice animal...etc

The Jews in America practice diverse beliefs. Of course most are looking forward to the messianic age. But they still believe they are in the Old Covenant with God.

It is debatable....The Old Testament referred to the Mosaic Law as forever. Christ said it would not change until all things are fulfilled. Now what does all things fulfilled mean? Not looking for an answer to that because it is a matter of perspective.

Either way....it does not apply to Christians....we are in a different covenant and you do not want to try to mix them, it does not work.
 
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
To whom was Jesus talking to when He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light? Were they born of God?
It does not matter?....it is a fact.
Strange as it may seem....Christ actually tells the truth.
Perhaps it may not matter to you. But it does to the Christian reader of scriptures to get to understand what Jesus meant by that in context.

Tong
R4333
 

Ferris Bueller

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Don't get slippery now.
This what you said: "The plan is predetermined, not who participates in it."
>> Predestination involves who participates in it, the appointed and itbers who asaiat in that process

Then you said:
"Don't confuse that with God who, in his foreknowledge, knows ahead of time who will believe in Christ and, therefore, be chosen to participate in that predetermined plan."

I think you got a little twisted up there brother.
No, honestly, I'm not twisted up. You're just not hearing what I'm saying.

God's plan is what is purposely predetermined and predestined ahead of time, not who will walk in that predetermined plan. Though he surely knows ahead of time who will choose to believe and walk in that plan.
 

Tong2020

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You flipped this around.

I wonder how many people notice things like that. I see stuff like that all the time.





Tong2020 said:
Got you? Not ever my intention sir.
↓↓↓
Tong2020 said:
Your comments on each of the list items that you made in separate posts affirms that I got you right.



You said, "got you" as a "gotcha" thing. He said "got you" as an I understand thing.

So you've found a way to misuse his words in a way to make him appear to contradict himself. Bravo!

I mean,

Don't let the space between my chances to address your contentions make you think you some how 'got me'. It's apparent to me that's the only reason you're here.

Are you really saying "got me" the same way he said it before, that you think the only reason he's here is to understand you? I didn't think so.

Like I said, I see this a lot.

Much love!
Keen observation you got there. You are right. Thanks for this.

God bless you!

Tong
R4334
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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@Ronald David Bruno
God who, in his foreknowledge, knows ahead of time who will believe in Christ...

You keep driving at this. There is a big difference in knowing and controlling.
Because you apparently do not understand what sovereignty means. It means He is in control, not of puppets.
Predestination and God's sovereignty is advanced theology - not everyone gets it.
 

Ferris Bueller

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>> Predestination involves who participates in it
In the context Paul talks about it, predestination involves what believers will participate in. So it's not 'who' is predestined to be a believer, but 'what' is predestined for those who choose to believe. Though, surely, God knows ahead of time (because he knows everything) who those people are that will participate in what he has predestined for those who believe.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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No, honestly, I'm not twisted up. You're just not hearing what I'm saying.

God's plan is what is purposely predetermined and predestined ahead of time, not who will walk in that predetermined plan. Though he surely knows ahead of time who will choose to believe and walk in that plan.
There it is again, you are contradicting yourself ..." He does'nt know who will participate, and He does know"