Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[Ferris Bueller]

the demands of the Law, is that you keep all 613 Mosaic Laws

Why do I have to keep all 613? Some are already kept for me, forever and perfectly. But 'kept' nonetheless. Not cast away.

if you break one, you break them all.

Thank God for Christ's forgiveness.

You keep talking like this and you are going to be a democrat politician. We respect the U.S. Constitution but we do not let it hinder us as we move the country to communism.

Christians are fulfilling the law. Commies are destroying it. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So that's what this is all about—the fulfillment and satisfaction of the law, not the destruction of the law Commie style.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am going to tell the truth.....I am going to be a straight shooter.....not going to mince words....I am going to be direct. No part of the Mosaic Law is part of my religious beliefs.

I'll be frank and to the point...yes, it is. You just don't realize it:

"...Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." 1 Corinthians 5:7​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes the most basic and elementary moral codes of the Law....are of course included in the vastly superiors moral codes of Christ. That has nothing to do with Christianity.

How does, for example, "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18), and "do not show...favoritism" (Leviticus 19:15), and being convicted by the law for not doing them, not have anything to do with Christianity?

"If you really fulfill the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”c you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." James 2:8-9
​

Apart from the concept of "mercy triumphs over justice" (James 2:13), how is Christ's moral code superior to these?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The intent of the Mosaic Law and Christ's Law's are not the same. The spirit of the Mosaic Laws and Christ's laws are not the same. In many ways they are polar opposites. Christ's ministry did not bring about the knowledge of sin. Christ ministry was not a ministry of death. Christ's ministry is not a curse.

And so this means we can not, and should not do anything in the law? It doesn't mean that. Really.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...the law failed because it saved no one.

The covenant of law did not fail man. Man failed the covenant of law:

"For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. But God found fault with the people" Hebrews 8:7-8

"...the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh" Romans 8:3
​

There was a purpose for putting man under a covenant that was wholly unfitting for the condition he was in, but that hardly means we can not, and should not do anything in the law. I think the church uses that as an excuse to not have to do anything in the law. It loves the false gospel that says faith doesn't have to do anything because that would be works. As if doing anything can't be anything other than one trying to earn their own salvation.

 

[MatthewG]

Is feeling good nothing but a feeling? Doesn’t feelings dissipate from one feeling to another? How can you trust your feelings?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

LOL Christ met/satisfied/fulfilled the lawful because His ministry occurred during the Old Covenant.

The point is He fulfilled it, not cast it down and away.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

<<<upholding/establishing/fulfilling it does not.>>>

That to me is you making upholding/establishing = fulfilling. And this is what I was commenting on as being not so.

Paul said “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”.

The Greek word translated “we establish” is “histanomen”. If one check out what the Greek “histémi” means, it means cause to stand, establish, hold up. It does not mean to fulfill nor to keep. There is a Greek word for fulfill and for keep.

Tong
R4336

Fulfilling the requirements of the law is how you uphold it. Sometimes the law is upheld through faith by literally fulfilling the law. Sometimes not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Judaizer wanted Christian "to do" the Law.

Yes, do the law For JUSTIFICATION.
THAT is what is forbidden.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read the outcome of the council in Jerusalem. Those "to does" were the only things agreed upon.

Which obviously shows us that it's okay to do things in the law. Just not for justification.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you love them so much....convert to Judaism.

No, because Judaism keeps the law in order to be justified by the law. I don't love the law that way, lol.

Then you will have 613 Laws to deal with. Mazel tov!

Only if I keep the law for the purpose of being justified.
I'm already justified in Christ so I don't have to, for example, keep a literal Passover, or be literally circumcised.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Haa haa you so funny.
I fully understand what sovereignty means. So that we are on the same page...."supreme power or authority." Now just because supreme power and authority would corrupt man....that does not mean it would corrupt God. You are still proposing that "just because" he had the power He would use it to do evil.

Supreme power and authority could just let the world unravel if He didn't control it. He ordains both good and evil for a purpose, to implement His plan.
You have no idea how many times He has pulled you out of harms way.
Our salvation came to being because He orchestrated a series of events and people that came into our life to witness to us, invite us to church. Or maybe some were fortunate to be brought up in a Christian home with parents that showed them the way. Our lessons in life are ordained, our chastisements, our GOOD WORKS - which are prepared ahead of time. There are principles that just work if you follow and obey like reciprocity: give and it shall be given to you; or what you sow is what you reap. Who keeps account of that, weighs it and gives us back blessings or punishments? Multiply that by billions of people and you get a very complex order likened to ourselves, an organism that has trillions of cells with each cell requiring thousands of
factories that manufacture proteins and amino acids, with genetic code copy macines that also reproduces themselves, having error correcting mechanisms. Each cell within a fiber _ within an organ _ within a system _ among many systems _ work together. There are armies, white blood cells, antibodies that protect it from invaders. Our bodies work according to that design as the world does. As disease effects our bodies and we get sick. So to does the world ger sick. Ot has cancer and is dying. Not all will survive, but because we know evil, we know good. Thank God that He has ordained life for a remnant population - which is about 1/3. That is almost exactly where we are right now with 2.65 billion believers in Christ.
Rom. 9:21
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑

<<<upholding/establishing/fulfilling it does not.>>>

That to me is you making upholding/establishing = fulfilling. And this is what I was commenting on as being not so.

Paul said “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”.

The Greek word translated “we establish” is “histanomen”. If one check out what the Greek “histémi” means, it means cause to stand, establish, hold up. It does not mean to fulfill nor to keep. There is a Greek word for fulfill and for keep.

Fulfilling the requirements of the law is how you uphold it. Sometimes the law is upheld through faith by literally fulfilling the law. Sometimes not.

I have shown you the original Greek word translated “we established”. And have showed you that it does not mean “we fulfilled”. And that there is another Greek word for that if that was what Paul meant to convey. As it is, you maintain that establish/uphold = fulfill. Even in the English dictionaries, that would be shown to be incorrect.

Paul said that faith in Christ establishes the law. It is not the same thing to say that faith in Christ fulfills the law. And certainly not the same thing to say something like “the law is upheld through faith by literally fulfilling the law.” or “Fulfilling the requirements of the law is how you uphold it.”

I think we’ll leave it that, as the Greek text easily settles that issue as to what Paul in Rom.3:31.

And so the question remains, how does faith in Christ establishes the law, or how does faith in Christ upholds the law? This would be a question for the others, since you have already given your answer.

Tong
R4339

 

[Tong2020]

Grailhunter said: ↑
The Judaizer wanted Christian "to do" the Law.
Yes, do the law For JUSTIFICATION.
THAT is what is forbidden.

Yes, do the law For JUSTIFICATION.
THAT is what is forbidden.

This is what the Judaizers wanted Christians (formerly gentiles) to do according to scriptures, to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:5). I am sure you know what the Judaizers refer to as the Law of Moses, right?

Tong
R4340

 

[Tong2020]

Which obviously shows us that it's okay to do things in the law. Just not for justification.

May I ask, not for justification as you qualify, if you do not do a precept or commandment of the law of Moses, do you consider that you have sinned and is guilty of not keeping the law or breaking the law?

Tong
R4341

 

[Grailhunter]

Why do I have to keep all 613? Some are already kept for me, forever and perfectly. But 'kept' nonetheless. Not cast away.

That is the point.
It is not like you can pick it up and throw it.
The Mosaic Law did more than establish sin.
It was their religion.
It governed their life....it established their culture.

But that is not our religion....not our agreement with God.
You do not want to hold to a lesser covenant.
A covenant that harsh and brutal and in many ways degraded women.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christians are fulfilling the law.

Define fulfilling.....it is mostly double talk.

 

[Grailhunter]

And so this means we can not, and should not do anything in the law? It doesn't mean that. Really.

Nothing beneficial.

 

[Grailhunter]

Which obviously shows us that it's okay to do things in the law. Just not for justification.

Ok to do things in the law!?

Like what!

What are you going to do that Christ has not already spoke.
What is drawing you to the Law?
The desire to be cursed?
The desire to live under a curse?
An affection for a ministry of death?
Things tied to an old agreement with God that did not provide salvation?

Okay to do things....do you want to.....
Sell your daughters as sex slaves....concubinage.
Sell your daughters into polygamous relationships.
According to the Mosaic Law if a father sold his daughter off and she did not bleed on her first night with her husband, he had the right to kill her and leave her body at her father's door step
Do you want multiple wives?

 

[Grailhunter]

Supreme power and authority could just let the world unravel if He didn't control it. He ordains both good and evil for a purpose, to implement His plan.
You have no idea how many times He has pulled you out of harms way.
Our salvation came to being because He orchestrated a series of events and people that came into our life to witness to us, invite us to church. Or maybe some were fortunate to be brought up in a Christian home with parents that showed them the way. Our lessons in life are ordained, our chastisements, our GOOD WORKS - which are prepared ahead of time. There are principles that just work if you follow and obey like reciprocity: give and it shall be given to you; or what you sow is what you reap. Who keeps account of that, weighs it and gives us back blessings or punishments? Multiply that by billions of people and you get a very complex order likened to ourselves, an organism that has trillions of cells with each cell requiring thousands of
factories that manufacture proteins and amino acids, with genetic code copy macines that also reproduces themselves, having error correcting mechanisms. Each cell within a fiber _ within an organ _ within a system _ among many systems _ work together. There are armies, white blood cells, antibodies that protect it from invaders. Our bodies work according to that design as the world does. As disease effects our bodies and we get sick. So to does the world ger sick. Ot has cancer and is dying. Not all will survive, but because we know evil, we know good. Thank God that He has ordained life for a remnant population - which is about 1/3. That is almost exactly where we are right now with 2.65 billion believers in Christ.
Rom. 9:21
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

It is fun when people do not know me.
It is still blah blah blah......you believe that God determined if people are going to heaven or hell before the creation of the world, and their is no escape!?? Babies damned to hell. All of reality a puppet show. And for what???? to live as a robot in heaven too. A proud robot that can call itself the elect. How about the programmed? It is a joke! What would be the purpose for God? To watch flesh move around aimlessly.