I have a question that remains unanswered:

[Wrangler]

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Is it your assumption that Genesis and John are referring to the same beginning?

 

[BarneyFife]

excepting him since he MUST have been made

Why MUST He have been made?

for all things to be made through him

Concerned with the word "through," are you? Let me help you.
I really like the way the New World Translation puts it:
All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

being a son, we know he is created as all sons are created.

Who's "we?"

Is it your assumption that Genesis and John are referring to the same beginning?

No assumption is necessary. The Scripture says what it says. Unless people want it to say something to suit their presuppositions.
.

In which column does Jesus belong?​

Note: It's not an essay question. Answer or don't answer, your choice.

 

[David in NJ]

excepting him since he MUST have been made for all things to be made through him + being a son, we know he is created as all sons are created.

Don't forget the all important exception in Christianity's end game.


23 But this is how it will happen: the Anointed’s awakening is the firstfruits. It will be followed by the resurrection of all those who belong to Him at His coming, 24 and then the end will come. After He has conquered His enemies and shut down every rule and authority vying for power, He will hand over the Kingdom to God, the Father of all that is. 25 And He must reign as King until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last hostile power to be destroyed is death itself. 27 All this will happen to fulfill the Scripture that says, “You placed everything on earth beneath His feet.” (Although it says “everything,” it is clear that this does not also pertain to God, who created everything and made it all subject to Him.) 28 Then, when all creation has taken its rightful place beneath God’s sovereign reign, the Son will follow, subject to the Father who exalted Him over all created things; then God will be God over all.
1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (Voice)

CORRECT - ALL things mde by GOD who is FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT just as it says in the WORD.

 

[David in NJ]

Is it your assumption that Genesis and John are referring to the same beginning?

Not an assumption, but the exactly what it says - you reject the WORD and therefore you err in understanding.

 

[Wrangler]

Why MUST He have been made?

I JUST answered this scripturally! Follow the logic.

P1. Sons are made.
P2. Jesus is a son.
C. Jesus was made.​

 

[BarneyFife]

I JUST answered this scripturally! Follow the logic.

P1. Sons are made.
P2. Jesus is a son.
C. Jesus was made.​

Logic schmogic. By Christ were all things made and without Him was not any thing made that was made. He never came into existence. He always was. He belongs in the left column, along with the Father and the Spirit. The Son of God was not made. Before Abraham was, HE IS.

New King James Version
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Abaxvahl]

I JUST answered this scripturally! Follow the logic.

P1. Sons are made.
P2. Jesus is a son.
C. Jesus was made.​

This is actually hilarious, considering that all sons have the same nature as their father, and are begotten of him, so if this comparison were honestly held you'd be a Trinitarian (or at least Binitarian). But I do not expect much of someone who is verbally incapable of presenting their position or demonstrating anything.

Truly the Antichrist is upon us, Lord have mercy.

 

[Aunty Jane]

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Yes....so who made Jesus? He was “begotten” a term used in scripture of a father causing the existence of a child. “Only begotten” means an only child....so the one who was the begetter of the pre-human Jesus was the Creator. This Son was the first and only creation of the Father...”the beginning of God’s creation”....(Rev 3:14)....all in existence thereafter was created “through” the Son, but not “by” him. (Colossians 1:15-17)

In Genesis the Father and Son are working as a team. (Prov 8:30-31) There is a difference between the words “create” and “make” in the creation account. Look them up in the concordance. It’s a subtle difference, but it’s there, and it’s implication alters the whole perception of the creation account IMO.

 

[theefaith]

Christ is divine!

Isa. 9:6-7 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.



Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1
One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Christ is the king!

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 2:10-11 all people!

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (old covenant Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And In the absence of the king we must submit and obey the kings ministers!

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18
Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
Jn 20:21-23

Biblical Example Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brother obeyed and submitted to him.

Christ is king and a king must rule the hearts and minds of his subjects!

All are subject to christ! Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[David in NJ]

I JUST answered this scripturally! Follow the logic.

P1. Sons are made.
P2. Jesus is a son.
C. Jesus was made.​

And this is why you cannot see - because you do not believe in the Son of God who alone can save you.

You believe and trust in a false christ. Your christ is 'a god' created by a jehovah.

The Lord knows those who are His and let everyone that names the Name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[BarneyFife]

It’s a subtle difference, but it’s there, and it’s implication alters the whole perception of the creation account IMO.

The implication of a subtle difference alters the whole perception of the creation account?

...apart from him not even one thing came into existence. (NWT)

.

In which column does Jesus belong?​

Note: It's not an essay question. Answer or don't answer, your choice.​

 

[BarneyFife]

And this is why you cannot see - because you do not believe in the Son of God who alone can save you.

You believe and trust in a false christ. Your christ is 'a god' created by a jehovah.

The Lord knows those who are His and let everyone that names the Name of Christ depart from iniquity.

From the Forum Rules:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern."

 

[BarneyFife]

the one who was the begetter of the pre-human Jesus was the Creator.

Acts 13:33 Parallel: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

There was no begetting of the pre-human Jesus.

 

[David in NJ]

From the Forum Rules:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern."

From the Forum Rules:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern."

i never reported anyone on here who are promoting heresy such a: Christ was created, jesus is "a god" and more
i have spoken a while back with wrangler and have shown love and concern for him, of which you are not aware.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Acts 13:33 Parallel: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

There was no begetting of the pre-human Jesus.

OK...so when did God make that declaration? At his birth, or at his baptism when he was 30 years old?
How was Jesus "begotten" at that time?
How was his baptism a "begetting"?

If the Word was "in the beginning with God"....when is "the beginning"?...since God had no beginning.
And how is he an "only begotten son" when the Bible tells us that God has many "sons" who were all in existence before material creation began? (Job 38:7)....and what is it that makes this "son" special out of all those other sons? Even Adam is called a "son of God" (Luke 3:38

1 John 4:9...
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (KJV)
Sending his "only begotten Son into the world" ....when did his begetting happen? Were there two "begettings"?

Hebrews 5:5...
"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." (KJV)
When did the Father beget his son?

How is Christ his own Apostle and High Priest? (Acts 1:3)
There is no logic in assuming that Jesus is God. Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself in that designation. (John 17:3)

Why does Jesus have to be God in order to ransom mankind? By what criteria was that a necessity?

 

[BarneyFife]

i never reported anyone on here who are promoting heresy such a: Christ was created, jesus is "a god" and more
i have spoken a while back with wrangler and have shown love and concern for him, of which you are not aware.

That's nice. The rules are still the rules.

 

[BarneyFife]

OK...so when did God make that declaration? At his birth, or at his baptism when he was 30 years old?
How was Jesus "begotten" at that time?
How was his baptism a "begetting"?

If the Word was "in the beginning with God"....when is "the beginning"?...since God had no beginning.
And how is he an "only begotten son" when the Bible tells us that God has many "sons" who were all in existence before material creation began? (Job 38:7)....and what is it that makes this "son" special out of all those other sons? Even Adam is called a "son of God" (Luke 3:38

1 John 4:9...
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (KJV)
Sending his "only begotten Son into the world" ....when did his begetting happen? Were there two "begettings"?

Hebrews 5:5...
"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." (KJV)
When did the Father beget his son?

How is Christ his own Apostle and High Priest? (Acts 1:3)
There is no logic in assuming that Jesus is God. Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself in that designation. (John 17:3)

Why does Jesus have to be God in order to ransom mankind? By what criteria was that a necessity?

The rapid-fire rotating questions tactic won't work on me.

...apart from him not even one thing came into existence. (NWT)

.

In which column does Jesus belong?​

Note: It's not an essay question. Answer or don't answer, your choice.​

 

[David in NJ]

Jehovah my God is but one sir. His son is not Him, rather what the Bible says he is, His son.

The word for God is Elohim which is plural. There were, and are, THREE Persons of One(Echad) Elohim(God).

The Shema: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord(Jehovah) our God(Elohenu), the Lord is one(echad) you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength

Elohim and Elohenu are plural and Echad (One)
Echad is the Hebrew word for one, but more precisely it means a single entity but made up of more than one part.

Elohim(God) communicated to us in a way we could understand - Genesis

Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness = 3 Times = Us + Our + Our

The Lord continued revealing Himself as Elohim by bringing forth Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Abrahma is the father of his only son Isaac (thru Sarah) and from Isaac came Jacob.

These three men, their lives, tell the story of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

Please read about these three men in Genesis and before, during and after - Pray for understanding in Name that is above all names = the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

That's nice. The rules are still the rules.

No rules broken - a created jesus cannot save anyone - neither can 'a god' save anyone

Share the Gospel not a false gospel

The Love of God applies

 

[Wrangler]

Logic schmogic.

Bless your heart. Jesus cannot be a son and also always have existed.

If you re-read the verses you cite, you will notice the text stops short of saying Jesus is the Creator. Not one single verse identifies Jesus as the LORD God incarnate.

Scripture informs us God is Spirit. Jesus is flesh. Scripture informs us that God is eternal and never changes. Jesus died. It’s the most basic proof that Jesus is not God.