I have a question that remains unanswered:

[theefaith]

I JUST answered this scripturally! Follow the logic.

P1. Sons are made.
P2. Jesus is a son.
C. Jesus was made.​

Yes Jesus was created so?
It only refers to his humanity

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[theefaith]

OK...so when did God make that declaration? At his birth, or at his baptism when he was 30 years old?
How was Jesus "begotten" at that time?
How was his baptism a "begetting"?

If the Word was "in the beginning with God"....when is "the beginning"?...since God had no beginning.
And how is he an "only begotten son" when the Bible tells us that God has many "sons" who were all in existence before material creation began? (Job 38:7)....and what is it that makes this "son" special out of all those other sons? Even Adam is called a "son of God" (Luke 3:38

1 John 4:9...
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (KJV)
Sending his "only begotten Son into the world" ....when did his begetting happen? Were there two "begettings"?

Hebrews 5:5...
"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." (KJV)
When did the Father beget his son?

How is Christ his own Apostle and High Priest? (Acts 1:3)
There is no logic in assuming that Jesus is God. Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself in that designation. (John 17:3)

Why does Jesus have to be God in order to ransom mankind? By what criteria was that a necessity?

Christ is high priest and apostle and mediator of the new covenant

who are his low priest’s?

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

 

[Wrangler]

Is there more than one God?

Jesus’ God is the only God. Genesis begins at Creation. All the Gospels begin with Jesus ministry since that is what they testify about.

Trinitarians have to see what is not there because the trinity is not in the Bible. Indeed, it goes against Scripture, particularly the 1C, the Sh’ma, and Jesus own words - that his Father is the only true God.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes Jesus was created so?
It only refers to his humanity

That’s all any man has, his humanity.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus’ God is the only God. Genesis begins at Creation. All the Gospels begin with Jesus ministry since that is what they testify about.

Trinitarians have to see what is not there because the trinity is not in the Bible. Indeed, it goes against Scripture, particularly the 1C, the Sh’ma, and Jesus own words - that his Father is the only true God.

the trinity is a mystery of faith!


Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

 

[theefaith]

That’s all any man has, his humanity.

not Jesus Christ

he is true God (fully God)
He is true man (fully man)

 

[David in NJ]

not Jesus Christ

he is true God (fully God)
He is true man (fully man)

You left One out

He also has the Fullness of the Holy Spirit

Father, Son Holy Spirit - These THREE show up Together as One in many places in Scripture - starting in Genesis

 

[theefaith]

You left One out

He also has the Fullness of the Holy Spirit

Father, Son Holy Spirit - These THREE show up Together as One in many places in Scripture - starting in Genesis

of course

1 jn 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[BarneyFife]

of course

1 jn 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes, sir, that's one subject you just can't talk enough about--sin.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, sir, that's one subject you just can't talk enough about--sin.

You still hold with rev. Tucker?

 

[BarneyFife]

You still hold with rev. Tucker?

Andy, they're on the same team!

 

[keithr]

It has everything to do with it.

What has Jesus being a servant who came from the Father (God) have to do with God removing His Spirit from Jesus when Jesus was on the cross?

If you think you know something which I and others don't, why don't you explain it to us and share your knowledge/ideas. Just making a terse seemingly unrelated statement and saying no more is pointless. What are your motives for participating in this discussion if it's not to share in the study of God's word, so that we may all come to a better understanding of the truth of His word and promises? You make it look like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing - like in the Monty Python's Flying Circus 'Argument' sketch.

Matthew 12:18 (WEB): “Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him. He will proclaim justice to the nations.

Where was home for the Son?

Where was home for God? And again, why do you ask, and what has it got to do with God removing His spirit from Jesus when Jesus bore the sins of all mankind?

Isaiah 66:1 (WEB): Yahweh says, “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."

 

[keithr]

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.

Jesus was never fully divine and fully man at the same time. When he was a man he was merely a man, just like us - no more and no less - except that he was not born with a sinful nature:

Romans 8:3) ... God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;

His flesh was in the "likeness" of sinful flesh, but it was not sinful. That was because his Father was God - God's Holy Spirit was the father, not a sinful flesh man, so Jesus did not inherit the sinful nature - he was like Adam before he had sinned. He had to be like Adam, and remain sinless, otherwise the sacrifice of his perfect human life would not have been an acceptable substitute for Adam's death.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (WEB): So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

 

[keithr]

1 jn 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You should know better than to quote probably the most infamous spurious verse in the Bible - which is acknowledged to have been a much later addition. It should be (WEB):

7) For there are three who testify:
8) the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and the three agree as one.​

As the Cambridge Bible notes says:

For there are three that bear record in heaven] If there is one thing that is certain in textual criticism, it is that this famous passage is not genuine. The Revisers have only performed an imperative duty in excluding it from both text and margin. External and internal evidence are alike overwhelmingly against the passage. ... But there are three facts, which every one should know, and which alone are enough to show that the words are an interpolation. (1) They are not found in a single Greek MS. earlier than the fourteenth century. (2) Not one of the Greek or Latin Fathers who conducted the controversies about the doctrine of the Trinity in the third, fourth, and first half of the fifth centuries ever quotes the words. (3) The words occur first towards the end of the fifth century in Latin, and are found in no other language until the fourteenth century. The only words which are genuine in this verse are, For there are three that bear record, or more accurately, For those who bear witness are three: ‘three’ is the predicate.​

I like the Living Bible's interpretation:

5) But who could possibly fight and win this battle except by believing that Jesus is truly the Son of God?
6,8) And we know he is, because God said so with a voice from heaven when Jesus was baptised, and again as he was facing death – yes, not only at his baptism but also as he faced death. And the Holy Spirit, forever truthful, says it too. So we have these three witnesses: the voice of the Holy Spirit in our hearts, the voice from heaven at Christ’s baptism, and the voice before he died. And they all say the same thing: that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
9) We believe men who witness in our courts, and so surely we can believe whatever God declares. And God declares that Jesus is his Son.
10) All who believe this know in their hearts that it is true. If anyone doesn’t believe this, he is actually calling God a liar because he doesn’t believe what God has said about his Son.

 

[keithr]

Yes, sir, that's one subject you just can't talk enough about--sin.

What? There's no mention of sin in 1 John 5:7. It's all about bearing witness to Jesus being God's son.

 

[David in NJ]

What has Jesus being a servant who came from the Father (God) have to do with God removing His Spirit from Jesus when Jesus was on the cross?

If you think you know something which I and others don't, why don't you explain it to us and share your knowledge/ideas. Just making a terse seemingly unrelated statement and saying no more is pointless. What are your motives for participating in this discussion if it's not to share in the study of God's word, so that we may all come to a better understanding of the truth of His word and promises? You make it look like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing - like in the Monty Python's Flying Circus 'Argument' sketch.

Matthew 12:18 (WEB): “Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him. He will proclaim justice to the nations.


Where was home for God? And again, why do you ask, and what has it got to do with God removing His spirit from Jesus when Jesus bore the sins of all mankind?

Isaiah 66:1 (WEB): Yahweh says, “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."

God's word is Truth - You can only be sanctified by truth.
Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him

The LORD's Home is the Bosom of the Father = "Heaven is My throne..."
.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” Hebrews 1:8-9

The Eternal Son always existed with the Eternal Elohim = Father Son Holy Spirit

They are the First Echad Elohim mentioned in Genesis and the Apostle John confirmed this in the Gospel.

Before The Elohim Son came to earth, for HE was never created, HE came to earth for us Sent by the Father filled with the Holy Spirit.

Genesis - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gospel - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Anyone who says the Son was created is speaking/teaching a lie against the Truth of the Eternal Son of God who is the Word who was God in the beginning,
through Whom all things were created.

 

[keithr]

Anyone who says the Son was created is speaking/teaching a lie against the Truth of the Eternal Son of God who is the Word who was God in the beginning, through Whom all things were created.

Once again, what has Jesus being a servant who came from the Father (God) have to do with God removing His Spirit from Jesus when Jesus was on the cross? What has any of what you've written have to do with that? You're like a politician - ask them a question and they'll ignore the question and just say what they want. Most people don't like it when politicians do that!

 

[David in NJ]

Once again, what has Jesus being a servant who came from the Father (God) have to do with God removing His Spirit from Jesus when Jesus was on the cross? What has any of what you've written have to do with that? You're like a politician - ask them a question and they'll ignore the question and just say what they want. Most people don't like it when politicians do that!

One item at a time for clarity.
I was only addressing the heresy that the Eternal Son of God was created by God. There is not one Scripture that states this.

There is the Eternal Elohim who are the "let US make man in OUR Image according to OUR Likeness"

What specific question or statement are seeking to make concerning "Jesus the Christ on the cross".

 

[Wrangler]

You should know better than to quote probably the most infamous spurious verse in the Bible - which is acknowledged to have been a much later addition.

He prefers comfortable deception to hard truth. Familiar with his denominations traditions, he accepts their usurpation of Christ’s authority on Earth.

 

[Wrangler]

Once again, what has Jesus being a servant who came from the Father (God) have to do with God removing His Spirit from Jesus when Jesus was on the cross?

Trinitarians want to ignore such questions. So, they invoke the fallacy of Diversion, hoping others don’t notice the change in subject or the reasons for it.