Tongues

[Truman]

At age 77 with serious shortness of breath problems I don't do that much any more... but, yes, I used to dance like David danced and I would also run as led by the Spirit of God...

I must go to a medical appointment now. I will be back hopefully later today!

And if you are, and I'm quite sure you will be, we will give God the glory! Lol Bless you!

 

[Curtis]

<<<Mark 16:16-18 are given to all believers.>>>

Do all, when they lay hands on the sick, the sick recovers?
Do all speak with new tongues?
Do all cast out demons?
Do all take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them?

Tong
R4581

Yes, all.

All believers can do the same exact works Jesus did, per John 14:12, with the caveat that even the apostles, who Jesus sent forth to heal the sick raise the dead and cast out demons, had faith problems at times and failed to cast our a demon, and got rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith, and believers today don’t have superior faith than the apostles, so can fail at times when they lay hands on the sick - even after Jesus said laying hands on the sick and healing them is a sign that follows those who believe, in Mark 16.

 

[Tong2020]

@Mantis Interesting way of stating it....

That’s because it’s 1 Cor.14:22.

Tong
R4582

 

[farouk]

I us d to be a cessationalist. But one of the views coming into these forums I have flipped.

@Eternally Grateful Another way of stating it may be: Are the Scriptures truly sufficient? (I do believe they are.)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Diverse tongues means there’s a diversity of tongues, meaning more than one kind - specifically there are three types of tongues.

Shalom

It just means there are many languages the Spirit chooses from, including angels. But there are only two directions that determine the difference between Mark 16 and 1 Cor. 12. TO and FROM God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

Do you know what type of "sign" tongues are? This is actually speaking of the individual tongues of Mark 16.

 

[Curtis]

It says that these signs will accompany them, it does not say that each individual will speak in tongues.

The signs that follow those who believe are they shall speak in a new tongue, that’s absolutely clear in the text, absent semantics games.

ar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Just as in John 14:12, Jesus said HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME shall do the same works He did.

This occurs in churches today that believe and aren’t cessationists.

In Christianity you get the promises you believe in, whether the promise of salvation or that those who believe have signs following them of tongues and healing the sick.

Even the apostles themselves who had a mandate from Jesus to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons - and did so - got rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith when they failed sometimes, proving lack of faith results in lack of miracles.

Ironically, at the same time that cessationists are warning to stay away from spirit filled churches that believe in healing the sick and spiritual gifts, scripture warns us to stay away from dead churches that have a form of Godliness but deny the power (dunamis) thereof.

Paul warns us to shun cessationist churches that have a form of godliness, but deny the power - DUNAMIS - (miracle working Holy Spirit power) thereof.



2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the POWER (Dunamis) thereof: from such turn away.


This is the same Dunamis power they all received at Pentecost - as prophesied by Jesus in Acts 1:8 - the same gift of the spirit Peter said will be given to as many as God shall call in Acts 2:38-39.


This is the same Dunamis power that Stephen, who was not an apostle, used to do great miracles among the people:


Act 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power (Dunamis), did great wonders and miracles among the people.


The ESV Bible translates ‘miracles’ as signs, because the koine Greek word, semeion, means signs as well as miracles.


Act 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power (Dunamis) , was doing great wonders and signs among the people.


There’s an example of non-apostolic sign gifts in operation, BTW.


In 2 Timothy 3:1 it establishes that the subject is the last days, and verse 5, ironically, warns us to stay away from the very churches that tell their flock to stay away from churches that have the spiritual gifts and Dunamis power in operation!

Definition of Dunamis;0:

G1411 (Strong)

δύναμις

dunamis

doo'-nam-is

From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

Total KJV occurrences: 120

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Eternally Grateful Another way of stating it may be: Are the Scriptures truly sufficient? (I do believe they are.)

The Scriptures are wonderful, and I study them every day. But as far as perceiving God, did you know that from the Scriptures we only see as through a dark glass, but when we are in heaven, we will KNOW Him then, as well as He knows us NOW.

 

[Curtis]

It just means there are many languages the Spirit chooses from, including angels. But there are only two directions that determine the difference between Mark 16 and 1 Cor. 12. TO and FROM God.

No, there’s three kinds of Holy Spirit tongues:

The one everyone understands without an interpreter

The unknown tongue never understood by any man.

The unknown tongue spoken in church that is interpreted.

 

[Tong2020]

There are only two gifts that I do not have from 1 Corinthians 12. Diverse kinds of Tongues, and Interpretation of Tongues. But, of course, I do have the tongues of Mark 16:17 and the rest listed there.

I was referring to the tongues of Mark16:17 in my question “Do you the speak same tongue when you do, or speak different tongues?” May I know?

Also, only if you do not mind, do you have a church that you go where you have fellowship with?

Tong
R4583

 

[Truman]

The signs that follow those who believe are they shall speak in a new tongue, that’s absolutely clear in the text, absent semantics games.

ar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Just as in John 14:12, Jesus said HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME shall do the same works He did.

This occurs in churches today that believe and aren’t cessationists.

In Christianity you get the promises you believe in, whether the promise of salvation or that those who believe have signs following them of tongues and healing the sick.

Even the apostles themselves who had a mandate from Jesus to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons - and did so - got rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith when they failed sometimes, proving lack of faith results in lack of miracles.

Ironically, at the same time that cessationists are warning to stay away from spirit filled churches that believe in healing the sick and spiritual gifts, scripture warns us to stay away from dead churches that have a form of Godliness but deny the power (dunamis) thereof.

Paul warns us to shun cessationist churches that have a form of godliness, but deny the power - DUNAMIS - (miracle working Holy Spirit power) thereof.



2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the POWER (Dunamis) thereof: from such turn away.


This is the same Dunamis power they all received at Pentecost - as prophesied by Jesus in Acts 1:8 - the same gift of the spirit Peter said will be given to as many as God shall call in Acts 2:38-39.


This is the same Dunamis power that Stephen, who was not an apostle, used to do great miracles among the people:


Act 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power (Dunamis), did great wonders and miracles among the people.


The ESV Bible translates ‘miracles’ as signs, because the koine Greek word, semeion, means signs as well as miracles.


Act 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power (Dunamis) , was doing great wonders and signs among the people.


There’s an example of non-apostolic sign gifts in operation, BTW.


In 2 Timothy 3:1 it establishes that the subject is the last days, and verse 5, ironically, warns us to stay away from the very churches that tell their flock to stay away from churches that have the spiritual gifts and Dunamis power in operation!

Definition of Dunamis;0:

G1411 (Strong)

δύναμις

dunamis

doo'-nam-is

From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

Total KJV occurrences: 120

Just before I got the gift of tongues, I was standing up. The presence of God was so heavy on me that it bent me over backwards and laid me on the floor. It took about 15 seconds for it to happen. It was a physical miracle! My sister's friend got healed out of a wheelchair! Give God the glory!
Tongues is such a blessing to me that I would be pleased if everyone had it! Shalom!

 

[Enoch111]

Prove they are not for everybody...you can't.

These rhetorical questions by Paul in Scripture (1 Cor 12:29,30) are sufficient proof that tongues are NOT for all:
Are all apostles? NO
are all prophets? NO
are all teachers? NO
are all workers of miracles? NO
Have all the gifts of healing? NO
do all speak with tongues? NO
do all interpret? NO

If tongues are not for all then it means that tongues are not a sign that people are "Spirit-filled".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What are you calling the higher gifts... Can you bear in mind that I am not knowledgeable about this topic?? It seemed to me that you were suggesting that all spirit filled believers are encouraged to speak in tongues ( as in should do so ).
I absolutely agree that the church is littered with false teachers.... I have learned to let NO one teach me. EVERY single person has a different opinion about things.

Actually I rarely speak in tongues, though I can. And Paul wishes that I would, and tells the Corinthians the same thing. "I would that you all spoke in tongues." All born again Christians can speak in tongues, but not all of us will." It is really up to you, but it doesn't change your status. I just prefer to spend my time listening for His voice, because He speaks to me a lot. I don't know if I would hear Him clearly if I was at the same time speaking in tongues. I don't know. Haven't tried it.

I agree whole-heartedly about the teachings of man. This is why I gave up on denominations after having been in three. But I couldn't live without the gifts of the Spirit that allow me to clearly hear His voice and receive revelation from the Author of what His Word means.

Just remember James 1:5-6

 

[Enoch111]

ha ha. Im not just a cessationist, im a full blown, 5 pt calvinist who actually studies john calvin himself. Go puritans!!

Be advised that Five Point Calvinism is "another gospel".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, there’s three kinds of Holy Spirit tongues:

The one everyone understands without an interpreter

The unknown tongue never understood by any man.

The unknown tongue spoken in church that is interpreted.

Okay, I can buy that. But the first one is not what are gifts from God, but are natural but can be used for prophecy. We are talking about signs and gifts of tongues, and there are only two. Some Pentecostals don't even know that. They believe there is only one.

 

[Addy]

Ironically, at the same time that cessationists are warning to stay away from spirit filled churches that believe in healing the sick and spiritual gifts, scripture warns us to stay away from dead churches that have a form of Godliness but deny the power (dunamis) thereof.

I am not a cessationist... I believe that the Holy Spirit is vibrant... alive and very active today.... I don't have a problem with JESUS giving his children gifts. I have a problem with people thinking they are OWED things from God... the gift of tongues is one of the most abused issues within the church today.... CHRISTIANITY is not about GIVE me give me... It is about how can I SERVE.... JESUS ensures that HIS body is equipped to serve others... He covers them and protects them... Gifts are given as needed by CHRIST. This is not a smorgasbord.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Be advised that Five Point Calvinism is "another gospel".

Good to know where you stand, Enoch, my brother.

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, all.

All believers can do the same exact works Jesus did, per John 14:12, with the caveat that even the apostles, who Jesus sent forth to heal the sick raise the dead and cast out demons, had faith problems at times and failed to cast our a demon, and got rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith, and believers today don’t have superior faith than the apostles, so can fail at times when they lay hands on the sick - even after Jesus said laying hands on the sick and healing them is a sign that follows those who believe, in Mark 16.

Would you say those are all gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Do you have all those mentioned in Mk.16?

Tong
R4584

 

[Curtis]

It says that these signs will accompany them, it does not say that each individual will speak in tongues.

Come on, words have specific meaning.

The signs are speaking in tongues and healing the sick.

Young’s literal translation:

Mar 16:17 'And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak;

John Wesley the founder of the Methodist church:

And these signs shall follow them that believe - Even at this day in every believer faith has a latent miraculous power; (every effect of prayer being really miraculous although in many, both because of their own littleness of faith, and because the world is unworthy, that power is not exerted. Miracles, in the beginning, were helps to faith; now also they are the object of it.

 

[Truman]

These rhetorical questions by Paul in Scripture (1 Cor 12:29,30) are sufficient proof that tongues are NOT for all:
Are all apostles? NO
are all prophets? NO
are all teachers? NO
are all workers of miracles? NO
Have all the gifts of healing? NO
do all speak with tongues? NO
do all interpret? NO

If tongues are not for all then it means that tongues are not a sign that people are "Spirit-filled".

Not all Spirit-filled people speak in tongues, but all Spirit-filled, tongue-talking people have the gift of tongues!