What is Mariology?

[Mungo]

I'm not going to argue or fight with a fellow Christian, you know what it is you are just trying to disguise it, end of my conversation with you, I see you are trying to twist things to your liking, I'll have no part of it.

I don't have to show you anything, you already know it.

I'm done now, pick on someone else to argue with.

You tell lies about Catholics.
Refuse to provide any evidence to back them up (because you can't)
Then try to put the blame on me.
That's not even smart - just dumb.

 

[JohnPaul]

You tell lies about Catholics.
Refuse to provide any evidence to back them up (because you can't)
Then try to put the blame on me.
That's not even smart - just dumb.

That’s very Christian of you, may God bless you and open your eyes.

 

[JohnPaul]

TY, but my comment was to Mungo who quoted Catholic teaching, and was asking him to reveal Scriptural verification.

"Immaculate" conception, as you describe, sure. Mary was MADE pregnant without her seed, or engaging in intercourse.
Yet, "immaculate conception", (depending on who one is having a discussion with), appears to have "multiple meanings", per Catholic teaching.

Agree- Worship is exclusive To and For;
The Lord God Almighty.

God Bless,
Taken

So if you quote someone and I feel the desire to give my opinion I can’t?

 

[Mungo]

That’s very Christian of you, may God bless you and open your eyes.

And may you learn repentance.

 

[Taken]

So if you quote someone and I feel the desire to give my opinion I can’t?

Ofcourse you can give your opinion.

Just mentioning Mungo, to give his response for what he believes, being verified with Scripture.

 

[JohnPaul]

And may you learn repentance.

You need to repent for your misguided words and trying to fool people.

 

[face2face]

Being wrong about something is not sin
sin1
n noun
1 an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

SIN
Definition
"A word, deed or desire in opposition to the eternal law" (St. Augustine). Sin is a deliberate transgression of a law of God, which identifies the four essentials of every sin. A law is involved, implying that there are physical laws that operate with necessity, and moral laws that can be disregarded by human beings. God is offended, so that the divine dimension is never absent from any sin. Sin is a transgression, since Catholicism holds that grace is resistible and the divine will can be disobeyed. And the transgression is deliberate, which means that a sin is committed whenever a person knows that something is contrary to the law of God and then freely does the action anyway. (Etym. Old English synn, syn, sin; Old High German sunta, suntea, perhaps to Latin sons, guilty.)
(Catholic Dictionary)

1440 Sin is before all else an offense against God, a rupture of communion with him. At the same time it damages communion with the Church. For this reason conversion entails both God's forgiveness and reconciliation with the Church, which are expressed and accomplished liturgically by the sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church)


Fallibility/Infallibility in theology is something different.
fallible
n adjective capable of making mistakes or being wrong.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

INFALLIBILITY
Definition
Freedom from error in teaching the universal Church in matters of faith or morals.......
The source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit, who protects the supreme teacher of the Church from error and therefore from misleading the people of God.
(Catholic Dictionary)

Regarding Mary:
I did not say she could not sin. Please stop claiming I say something I did not.
That is dishonest debating.
The doctrine is that she did not sin.
Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ's victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life. (CCC para 411)

I asked you to show me where a Catholic member here has said that Mary is infallible.
You have failed to do that.
Instead you try and divert on to something else.

It's time for some honesty on your part.

Its clear you are not willing to state whether Mary was fallible that much is clear to all reading this thread.

This is your teaching Mungo:

The doctrine of the “Immaculate Conception” teaches that Mary herself was born without sin, that from the very first moment of her existence she was free from the taint of original sin. It holds that while all the rest of mankind are born into an inheritance of original sin, Mary alone, by a special miracle of God, was excepted.

If as you believe Mary did not inherit original sin and was free from it...

Was it possible for Mary to sin?
Was Mary fallible?

 

[face2face]

I don't have to show you anything, you already know it.

I'm done now, pick on someone else to argue with.

JohnPaul,

I feel a sense of responsibility for Mungo's actions as his back is against the wall, cornered and he is now in a fighting spirit. I dear say anyone who try's to engage him will meet with the same fate. Thank for your honesty and acknowledging the affects of reading the Bible for yourself which has clearly made small changes in your understanding. That's refreshing to hear and provides hope for others.

 

[face2face]

Catholics do not worship Mary.

@JohnPaul

latria—dulia—hyperdulia
The Church of Rome, without any warrant whatever from Scripture, technically divides worship into three kinds: (1) Latria, the supreme worship, given to God alone; (2) Dulia, a secondary kind of veneration given to saints and angels; and (3) Hyperdulia, a higher kind of veneration given to the Virgin Mary.

The theory, however, is useless in practice, for the average worshipper @Mungo is not able to make the distinctions, nor does he even know that such distinctions exist.

So technically speaking you both are right!

 

[face2face]

It was hard for me to accept this at first, as I am baptized Catholic and raised Catholic, very hard for me, but as I started to read the bible on my own, I came to accept that the Blessed Mother was not to be worshiped as a deity or prayed to or any other Saint, as Jesus said pray to me only to reach the father God Almighty, that through him all prayers shall be answered.

I was at a Catholic Church this past Friday for a family wedding and so much veneration of the Blessed Mother is shown throughout the Church, almost like they are pushing the Blessed Mother as the main focus of worship, I told a story in another thread on what made me stop going to the Catholic Church a decade ago and stop going by any denomination, I just couldn't take it anymore, so that one day changed my life and now I simply consider myself Christian, and let the Holy spirit of Christ guide me, instead of doing rituals as I did many of times in the Catholic Church.

I have seen Mary statues with missing toes where people have kissed them off. Their fixation on Mary is extreme and highlights to me the corrupt nature of the churches teaching. An original lie that was added too and developed over time has become an unthinkable teaching which really is a low picking fruit to debunk. Mungo, Illumanator & Marymog can see what the Scripture teaches as they are intelligent human beings, but they are unable to consolidate the RCC's teaching with Scripture? There is no unity between God's Word and the RCC. Well done for coming out of her JohnPaul.

 

[JohnPaul]

JohnPaul,

I feel a sense of responsibility for Mungo's actions as his back is against the wall, cornered and he is now in a fighting spirit. I dear say anyone who try's to engage him will meet with the same fate. Thank for your honesty and acknowledging the affects of reading the Bible for yourself which has clearly made small changes in your understanding. That's refreshing to hear and provides hope for others.

He knows the truth, I was Catholic and he knows the church worships the Blessed Mother.

Yet he’s asking me to provide truth he already knows about and is trying to cover it up, he can’t give me any fate only God can.

 

[face2face]

He knows the truth, I was Catholic and he knows the church worships the Blessed Mother.

Yet he’s asking me to provide truth he already knows about and is trying to cover it up, he can’t give me any fate only God can.

It all depends on whether he takes the official stance, or if he speak's to the reality. “Through Mary to Christ" as the saying goes, and the prayers don't make it to Christ - that we all know.

 

[JohnPaul]

@JohnPaul

latria—dulia—hyperdulia
The Church of Rome, without any warrant whatever from Scripture, technically divides worship into three kinds: (1) Latria, the supreme worship, given to God alone; (2) Dulia, a secondary kind of veneration given to saints and angels; and (3) Hyperdulia, a higher kind of veneration given to the Virgin Mary.

The theory, however, is useless in practice, for the average worshipper @Mungo is not able to make the distinctions, nor does he even know that such distinctions exist.

So technically speaking you both are right!

They have more effigies and images of Mary in the Catholic Church than Jesus.

 

[face2face]

They have more effigies and images of Mary in the Catholic Church than Jesus.

 

[tabletalk]

perhaps you can understand it better christ is king of all but allows his mother to rule over the kingdom of grace and mercy

Phooey.

 

[Mungo]

Its clear you are not willing to state whether Mary was fallible that much is clear to all reading this thread.

This is your teaching Mungo:

The doctrine of the “Immaculate Conception” teaches that Mary herself was born without sin, that from the very first moment of her existence she was free from the taint of original sin. It holds that while all the rest of mankind are born into an inheritance of original sin, Mary alone, by a special miracle of God, was excepted.

If as you believe Mary did not inherit original sin and was free from it...

Was it possible for Mary to sin?
Was Mary fallible?

I have implicitly answered these but since you do not accept that:
I believe it was possible for Mary to sin but she did not sin.
Mary was not infallible so yes, she could be fallible.

 

[Mungo]

He knows the truth, I was Catholic and he knows the church worships the Blessed Mother.

Yet he’s asking me to provide truth he already knows about and is trying to cover it up, he can’t give me any fate only God can.

The Church does not worship Mary.
I've asked you to provide evidence but you refused.

 

[Mungo]

They have more effigies and images of Mary in the Catholic Church than Jesus.

Another lie. And that is easily disprovable.
In all Catholic churches that I have visited there are "Stations of the Cross" - 14 depiction of the Passion of Jesus.
In all 14 Jesus is depicted. Mary is only normally depicted in 2.

Regarding statues. There are commonly one of Jesus and one of Mary, plus a crucifix over or behind the main altar, which obviously depicts Jesus.

So, commonly 17 depictions of Jesus and 3 of Mary.

 

[theefaith]

View attachment 18007

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, co Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the church or rejection of such doctrines is and attack on God and on Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jude 1:3

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[theefaith]

Welcome back Mungo,
So you are saying now that Mary was wrong on two counts? (please clarify so we can move forward)

Mungo, its like pulling teeth with you...why cant you speak to the Scripture? Why cant you simply say Mary was wrong and Jesus was right?
Or
Do you believe Mary was impeccable?
Sinless yes, and it is no sin to grieve
Matt 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

When your pope speaks ex cathedra do you believe he is infallible and without error? By the power of the Holy Spirit yes Jn 16:13

If your Pope being born of sinners is blameless while performing his rituals,
Born a sinner but born again in the grace of Jesus Christ by the Christian sacrament of baptism

what of Mary who you say is the Mother of God....is she infallible and not capable of sin? Or fallible and capable of sin? Which is it?

Scripture has Mary the mother of God Lk 1:43
And since Jesus is God and Mary is his mother

It's time for heretics to stop thier acting from pride presumption and arrogance
Full of errors with rebellion from Christ and his holy church

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, co Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the church or rejection of such doctrines is and attack on God and on Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jude 1:3

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.