Paul

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BloodBought 1953

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2peter:35 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

If Peter, Pauls contempory considers Pauls letters as scripture who are we to disagree.



Jesus declared that Paul was His “ Chosen Vessel”....

The Holy Spirit was Speaking what Paul said to “Follow ME as I follow Christ”

The Gospel That Saves Souls today was Given to Paul by Jesus personally and it was “ Not Given to Him by men...”

After His Ascension, Jesus used Paul as His “ Secretary” —- Paul wrote NOTHING that Jesus did not TELL HIM to say......anytime Paul spoke his “own” mind in his letters—- he let it be Known.
 

bbyrd009

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I find this interesting. I had always assumed, without even thinking about it, that the Old Testament was in existence during Paul's time. Maybe it wasn't that simple.
ha well tbh i dont know how much agreement they had on a canonical OT myself…does seem like there was some variance, like maybe some used some or all of the apocrypha that others maybe didnt? Paul Quotes from Jannes and Jambres, which i dont think we even have anymore?

but Paul is also pretty easy to misinterpret, a famous example being the absent from the body passage,
“we are cock-sure, i tell you, and even wish that we were already dead, and in heaven”
Why. It is either a message from God or it is not.
How will you decide which of Paul's words are right?

Much love!
especially via a scribe, huh?
so deciding might be less an issue than translation is, at least sometimes
 

APAK

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why do you connect those two, i gotta ask?
im just not finding that connection anywhere in Scripture, wadr
we are freed from the law of sin and death, and judged by our works, near as i can tell?
Yes, were are judged by our fruit that we produce as spiritual works under the new Law of Christ and grace of God.
 

bbyrd009

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Some people believe the Bible is the Word of God. Others believe the Word of God are those instances where God or Jesus are directly quoted.
i have never seen an instance of pneuma without an accompanying “hear, hearing, heard,” not saying that there isnt one
 

marks

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We develop discernment when we mature.
This sounds like everyone decides for themself which parts are right and which parts are wrong, or simply of human origin. There's one place I can think of where Paul is clear to say this is from him. But only that one place I think.

Much love!
 
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Bob Estey

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This sounds like everyone decides for themself which parts are right and which parts are wrong, or simply of human origin. There's one place I can think of where Paul is clear to say this is from him. But only that one place I think.

Much love!
People do have to develop discernment.
 
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MatthewG

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People on the conservative side of the spectrum seem to believe everything Paul says in the Bible was inspired by God, and therefore is the Word of God. People on the left seem to pick and choose what is the Word of God. People in the middle might go back and forth between the two.

I might suggest this: God gave Paul a very important mission: Setting up churches and instructing them. Paul wasn’t perfect, though. He commanded much respect, so his letters were kept, and in time considered scripture.

There is so much to read and consider on Paul’s writings Romans being one of the biggest sections to learn from. Though some was for the Jews and some for the Gentiles. It’s a big discernment people have to make in what is being said by asking who, what, when, where, and how.

Study Bible is kind of helpful, also is a Thompson Chain bible can be useful.

History is helpful as well in consideration of Josephus who was born in 37ad 3 years after the resurrection near or in Jerusalem (I can’t remember).
 

marks

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People do have to develop discernment.
And it still sounds like every man for himself in choosing to say, this part, and not that part. My discernment is that the entire Book is the Word of God. I don't know how someone would discern otherwise. What parts do you not consider to be God's Word?

Much love!
 
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MatthewG

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The Bible is the book that men inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote down for a record of history for all to be able to see and look at today, which has 66 canonical books.

All scripture is profitable (I forget where that scripture is @marks)
 
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MatthewG

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“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
‭‭II Timothy‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Its still important to consider content and context when it comes to reading the Bible though @marks.

Many people just skip past most of the introductory parts of the letters, and they can make the Bible as it was written for the nation of America or something (consider Christian cults ).
 
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Bob Estey

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And it still sounds like every man for himself in choosing to say, this part, and not that part. My discernment is that the entire Book is the Word of God. I don't know how someone would discern otherwise. What parts do you not consider to be God's Word?

Much love!
If we don't develop discernment, then we let other people think for us. Which is better?
 

Bruce Atkinson

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why do you connect those two, i gotta ask?
im just not finding that connection anywhere in Scripture, wadr
we are freed from the law of sin and death, and judged by our works, near as i can tell?

Perhaps the biggest reason people don’t fully comprehend Pauls’ writings is they are contrary to what they’ve always believed as church members. And mixing Pauls’ writings (grace) with the 4 Gospels and the epistles of James, Peter, John and Jude (law) for doctrine only causes confusion.

What is significant about Pauls’ writings is that he alone was called by the Lord to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. His writings are to Gentiles ONLY (except, obviously, Hebrews) and cannot be applied to those under the law. The disciples are the apostles to the Jews ONLY and were commanded by Jesus to NOT go to the Gentiles or Samaritans…exactly as the Mosaic law dictates that Jews shall not mix with them under any circumstances.

Speaking to Ananias -
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: (underlining mine)

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (KJV)

Even years after the Jerusalem council where Paul and Barnabas met with the disciples, and agreed that Paul and Barnabus would go to the Gentiles and they to the Jews (Acts 15, Galatians 2, especially vs 9), the disciples failed to fully comprehend salvation by grace through faith alone. Peter fully acknowledged Paul but also that his teaching was difficult to fully comprehend as recorded in 2 Peter 3:15-16

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (KJV)

Note also the last part of verse 16 regarding the unlearned being confused between what the disciples were teaching – Jesus is the risen Messiah to Jews only. Period. They knew nothing about Jesus dying for our sins, except as Paul told them in Jerusalem – vs Pauls’ preaching that the cross IS salvation by grace through faith plus nothing.

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law, and it could be said he died under the law by teaching that He was the promised Messiah – Heresy in the eyes of Israels’ ruling class (Pharisees, mostly). But Jesus himself stated that works (keeping the law) can never ‘justify’ anyone to get into the kingdom of heaven as shown in Matthew 7:21-23

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (KJV)

Now look at what Paul wrote about Abraham in Romans 4:2-3 -

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (KJV)

Works has NO PART in being justified, righteous, or saved in Gods' eyes. God will NEVER be put in a 'You owe me because...' situation. Look at Hebrews 11...the FAITH chapter, finishing with Hebrews 12:2

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (KJV)

It's all faith, faith, faith...no works. Pauls' letter to the Hebrews is redirecting the Jews away from the law and its works to faith alone in Jesus, their Messiah, aka the Christ. It's the same as the Gospel preached by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4...faith ALONE in what Jesus did for us at the cross. When He said 'it is finished', He is stating that He fulfilled ALL the prophecy written about him in His first coming.

Paul sums it up in 1 Corinthians 1:18 and 23 -

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; (KJV)

Law and grace can not be mixed together or combined. Keeping them separate makes understanding Gods' Word far easier, but also shows how God is dealing with us Gentiles until we’re raptured out of here. Pauls' writings are our guidebook. Israel was temporarily 'set aside' in 70 AD and only came back together in 1948...the only nation to ever be split up and scattered to the winds and then re-created...exactly according to prophecy (Amos 9:11-15).

What Peter wrote roughly 1960 years ago in 2 Peter 3:16 is still true today…people and churches are STILL trying to mix law and grace and getting all twisted. They fail to 'rightly divide' Gods' Word as Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 2:15

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)
 
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bbyrd009

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God will NEVER be put in a 'You owe me because...' situation
hmm, a v comes to mind that could be interpreted just like that, imo…


Law and grace can not be mixed together or combined
are you sure? We dont prosecute those who cannot participate in their own defense right now, and we even have jury nullification for those who can, yes?

Anybody here ever get a speeding ticket for going 1mile over the speed limit?
 

marks

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If we don't develop discernment, then we let other people think for us. Which is better?
My discernment is that all the Bible is the Word of God, with one part where the writer plainly states that this part is from him. Otherwise, as I've developed in my Christian life, this is what I've come to know.

Why do you think otherwise? What is it about certain parts of the Bible that lead you to think they are not true? And which parts?

Much love!
 
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