Christians are not under the New Covenant
- Thread starter keithr
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
LOL I said or not!
The reason....the title of the thread???
LOL Hey where did the Covenant of the pieces go?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The covenant of faith existed before the Mosaic covenant.
The Mosaic covenant in no way nullified the covenant of faith.
We call it 'new' even though it is the original covenant between God and man.
It is new in revelation.
The Mosaic covenant in no way nullified the covenant of faith.
We call it 'new' even though it is the original covenant between God and man.
It is new in revelation.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
What's the joke?
It's referring to when God walked between the severed halves of the sacrifice, right? A common covenant ritual of the day, I'm told.
1. The New Covenant (Testament) went into effect the day Christ died. Since He anticipated -- at the Last Supper -- His death, burial, and resurrection before they occurred, here is what He said [Mt 26:27,28; Mk 14:24; Lk 22:20; 1 Cor 11:25]: And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament [Covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Just as Moses ratified the Old Covenant with the blood of sprinkling, Christ ratified the New Covenant with His own precious blood (which has been sprinkled on the Mercy Seat in the Heavenly Sanctuary). Therefore He is called the "Mediator of the New Testament (Covenant) in Hebrews 9:15.
2. Therefore Paul could freely speak of the New Covenant as applicable to believers during the Church Age, and himself as the minister of the New Testament (2 Cor 3:6): [God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Within the New Covenant, we have (1) forgiveness of sins through the blood of Christ, (2) the gift of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling Spirit, (3) the New Birth, (4) new creatures or creations in Christ and (5) the Law written on hearts and minds instead of tablets of stone. We also have direct access to God through the Son and by the Holy Spirit, because Christ is the great High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary as our Mediator and Advocate. Study the epistle to the Hebrews.
The very fact that the temple in Jerusalem is no longer there and the Levitical priesthood has been abolished should be reason enough to understand that the Old Covenant has been abolished and the New Covenant has been established by Christ Himself.
Note: The Greek word diatheke can be translated as either "testament" or "covenant". The fact that the New Testament is a part of the Bible should have been sufficient for you. But you had to come along and invent a new doctrine. So kindly revise the title of your thread and have it read as "CHRISTIANS ARE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT". But if you persist in your error after this, then be it known to all that you are a false teacher to be avoided at all costs.
Wow we actually agree on something!
I said the same with Heb 9
of course the initiation ritual for the new covenant is baptism
Not water baptism but Spirit baptism which produces the New Birth. Then those who have been born again are baptized as believers. See Acts 10.
no such thing as spirit or spiritual baptism
But Christian sacrament of baptism
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit
believers are not Christians!
But only catechumens!
Christians are by faith and baptism
Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19-20 Jn 4:1 acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 1 cor 12:13 gal 3:27 1 pet 3:20-21
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Yes water baptism. Acts 2:38 is about water baptism....Receiving the Holy Spirit is understood as a result of performing the Water Baptism. He said it right the first time...the initiation ritual for the new covenant is baptism. We have been looking around for a video of the Spirit baptism....if you have one, please send it.
Water baptism has always been seen as an initiation into Christianity.
Just like circumcision is seen as the initiation into Judaism.
You will not see anything in the Bible or tradition or history that reads like this.....
"Hey fellows were are going to hold off on the Water Baptism! Let him stand there until the Spirit Baptizes him!"
How long do you think he would be standing there?
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The 'new' covenant is the covenant of faith, by the Spirit. As opposed to the old covenant, the covenant of works, by the letter of the law. Both sealed by blood. One by the blood of animals, the other by the blood of Christ—the blood of the "eternal" covenant (Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 13:8, 1 Peter 1:20).
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
The Law of Love (the Ten Commandments, the two greatest commandments)
Yes. Here is the "video" of Spirit baptism FOLLOWED BY water baptism. There is no such thing as an "initiation rite".
ACTS 10: THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST FOLLOWED BY WATER BAPTISM
1. THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED AND BELIEVED
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
2. THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST TAKES PLACE RIGHT THEN
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
3. BELIEVING JEWS ARE ASTONISHED THAT GENTILES ALSO RECEIVE THE SPIRIT
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
4. THE EVIDENCE IS THE GIFT OF TONGUES (NOT NORMATIVE)
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
5. WATER BAPTISM FOLLOWS THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY:
1. The Catholic dogma of baptismal regeneration is false and unscriptural. No one receives the Holy Ghost simply for being baptized, and no one is born again through baptism (John 1:12,13)
2. There are only two instances where the gift of tongues became the evidence of the gift of the Holy Spirit because Gentiles were involved and Jews were witnesses. This is not the norm in the book of Acts.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Let stick with the topic of baptism and not with individual events of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can fall on us over and over again.
Yes Baptism was considered the initiation of new Christians.
No one is denying that receiving the Holy Spirit is part of Baptism....but you do not receive the Holy Spirit first.
Not exactly - here’s what you’ve missed - Hebrews tells us Jesus is mediating the new covenant that is prophesied in Jeremiah 31, and that the new covenant is Jesus’ last will and Testament, that like all wills, takes effect with the death of the testator.
It’s a better covenant founded on better promises than the first covenant with Israel, which has ended:
Hebrews 8 states Jesus is mediating, not will mediate, the new covenant, and in 8-10 shows that covenant is the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the House of Israel:
Hebrews 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Heb 8:9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 9 states that the new covenant Jesus mediates is His last will and Testament, that took effect at His death, as all last will and Testaments do:
Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.
Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.
Heb 9:18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.
Notice that the called obtain the promised inheritance from the last will and Testament that took effect at His death, verse 9:15
God always has a law, and the new covenant is a legal document that gives the called an inheritance - as in inheriting eternal life.
Hebrews 10 confirms that the once for all time sacrificial offering of Himself established the Jeremiah 31 new covenant where God puts His laws in the hearts and minds of those being sanctified:
Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Heb 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
Heb 10:17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Heb 10:18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Currently per Romans 11 only a remnant of the elect nation of Israel believes in Jesus and is in their own new covenant God has made with the House of Israel and thus have Gods indwelling Holy Spirit within them, which is how Gods laws are written in their hearts, and the rest are blinded until the deliverer comes out of Zion.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Gentiles as wild Olive branches are grafted onto the Olive tree of Israel, amid the natural branches, and thus by faith gentiles enter into the new covenant with the House of Israel.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
Last edited:
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
