"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[marks]

but fwiw i suspect the cult of sol was just the best reflection of Yah they had then, and imo we are talking about earnest, thoughtful people who were seeking God as best they knew how,

To see if I understand your thought here, the idea is that these honest and God seeking people did the best they could, and wrote out of their best efforts to know God, and make Him known, and did that using the pagan ideas of the day. God allowed, or used, or promoted that kind of writing to lead astray those who were just seeking advantage for themselves, while hiding within something very different from the crude pagan-styled descriptions of God.

Am I on the right track here?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

so by our good works we increase grace?

No, By His work in us (Ephesians 2:10) His righteousness yields fruit in us.

 

[David H.]

You appear to attribute this to having some certain experience, a moment in time. Do you know, God works with people in different ways? Do you know, people seem to have a bad habit of misinterpreting their experiences.

It is a moment in time, a time of complete surrender when we stop relying on our own will and strength and intelligence and learn to trust in His providence, a concept you seem to not grasp? It is the point we stop being the Pilot, and let God fly the airplane for us... This is not a salvation thing but a surrender thing, and comes with brokenness.

What I think must be overcome is doubt and disbelief. Our walk is by faith and not by sight. Our walk is in believing what we are told by God, and not in the experiential perceptions of ourselves.

Trusting ion the providence of God is the ultimate form of not walking by sight. How is it that you do not grasp this?

It sounds to me like what you are describing is a paradigm shift based on having an experience. I think someone quoted to me earlier . . . Danger, Will Robinson . . .

The "experience" is where assurance of salvation comes from, when we surrender to the will of God we no longer are thinking of ourselves or defending ourselves like Christ Jesus who laid down his life for us. "Nevertheless not my will but thine be done" as he accepted the will of God and go to the cross. Trusting i the providence of God is the ultimate form of walking by faith, and it yields the fruit of righteousness. Read James 3:13-18

 

[Ferris Bueller]

still driving though?

No, I'm sitting in the backseat asleep waiting for the auto driving feature to kick in.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

”meat is for those who have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”

“senses”

thanks. It took a while for me to even notice or pay attention to ‘senses’ there. Until @marks quoted it. I’m confused of whether it is a good thing or a bad thing … But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 5:14

‘Full age’ …is that similar to 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man(full age?), I put away childish things.

Is discernment a gift of the Holy Spirit? Without the Holy Spirit do we lack discernment? Is discernment an evil thing? Jonah 4:10-11 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: [11] And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Senses: what is sense? Is it to touch, feel, see, hear, taste? Some refer to sense as referring to the mind? As in the degrading ‘she (or he)hasn’t a lick of sense’ or something like that. Or are they the same ‘the mind’ being the manifestation of ‘touch, feel, see, hear, taste’?

Regarding senses, google says ‘Perception’
The clearest example of ‘perception’ I can think of is Isaiah 11:3-4 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord : and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Perception? For the Lord sees not as man sees? 1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

 

[amadeus]

if Jesus died for our sins then it becomes pertinent to ask why He would tell us to pick up our own crosses, i think

He opened the Door, but we must walk through it. Provision has been made for that as well, has it not? Is it a 'come as you are' party or are there some requirements for us meet so as to not be stopped and perhaps even cast out into outer darkness?

 

[amadeus]

I read a book once called: How to live like a King's kid.
It was a good book :)

I remember reading that same book many years ago. It was good. Praise the Lord!

 

[Waiting on him]

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

John 20:22 KJV
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

[David H.]

Our Christian walk can be broken down into three stages of maturity, Little children, Young men, and fathers/elders.

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. (1 John 2:12-13)

A Little child of the faith dwells in their forgiveness of sin, when we are born again have the weight of sin lifted from us and the freedom and grace we know drives us.
A Young man of the faith has been given the milk of doctrine and is now able to discern the wicked one and fight against his lies and heresies.
A Father/Elder is one who knows (ginosko) the one who is from the beginning, the presence of God is manifested in their life. These are the ones digesting the meat of the word, and applying it to their lives.

In each stage of our maturation there is a transformation of what our focus is, a child is focused on themselves and their own faith and forgiveness, a young man is focused on other believers (brotherly love) and protecting the children from wicked one, an elder is focused on God and doing his will (Agape love).

When we move on from the milk of doctrine to digesting the meat we become of "full age". This comes after years of fighting for sound doctrine and the wicked one, when we finally learn to trust the providence of God, because we finally know him fully and that he is in control. It is then we learn to love our enemies and not fight against them, just as Christ loved us, who were enemies and sinners, yet he gave himself for us to save us.

 

[marks]

It is a moment in time, a time of complete surrender when we stop relying on our own will and strength and intelligence and learn to trust in His providence, a concept you seem to not grasp? It is the point we stop being the Pilot, and let God fly the airplane for us... This is not a salvation thing but a surrender thing, and comes with brokenness.

To me, this is the milk. Grasping that is milk.

This is what repentance is, and when we repent, we start off not really understanding too much for the most part. And the old man continues to plow ahead in our lives, and we begin to learn what that's about, and start to get control. And we grow in understanding who we are in Christ, and who Christ is, and our lives begin to change.

As we see God's work in us, as we begin to experience Christ being formed in us, we come to greater understanding of His Word. Our live are a reflection of God's Word, and being obedient to follow where He leads each of us, this is are participation in the process. Working out what He works in.

The Bible's reflection in our lives gives us understanding into the Bible, and this is the meat.

When will you stop being the pilot?

All these continuing comments like, ""A concept you cannot seem to grasp", this is fleshy and not Spirit. Consider this.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

To me, this is the milk. Grasping that is milk.

This is what repentance is, and when we repent, we start off not really understanding too much for the most part. And the old man continues to plow ahead in our lives, and we begin to learn what that's about, and start to get control. And we grow in understanding who we are in Christ, and who Christ is, and our lives begin to change.

As we see God's work in us, as we begin to experience Christ being formed in us, we come to greater understanding of His Word. Our live are a reflection of God's Word, and being obedient to follow where He leads each of us, this is are participation in the process. Working out what He works in.

The Bible's reflection in our lives gives us understanding into the Bible, and this is the meat.

When will you stop being the pilot?

All these continuing comments like, ""A concept you cannot seem to grasp", this is fleshy and not Spirit. Consider this.

Much love!

It’s rather humiliating.

 

[bbyrd009]

If that's the case, I think we're all just chasing our tails, nothing more profitable than that. We should all go home and grow carrots, or something like that, something useful.

That is, if we're just discussing the cognitive bias of 3rd century scribes

oh, i dunno…we are warned about scribes, and we have custom-made lexicons that we may find the original intent, if we seek, i think. It also serves as a kind of Rorschach test imo; you dont really read the Bible at all, the Bible reads you!

I think I understand what you are saying here. But I don't think we're being called to repudiate all knowing

hey, whats eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge after all? He who says that he knows anything, does not

what is it?
we’re tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!
change and become like little children

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a moment in time, a time of complete surrender when we stop relying on our own will and strength and intelligence and learn to trust in His providence, a concept you seem to not grasp? It is the point we stop being the Pilot, and let God fly the airplane for us... This is not a salvation thing but a surrender thing, and comes with brokenness.



Trusting ion the providence of God is the ultimate form of not walking by sight. How is it that you do not grasp this?



The "experience" is where assurance of salvation comes from, when we surrender to the will of God we no longer are thinking of ourselves or defending ourselves like Christ Jesus who laid down his life for us. "Nevertheless not my will but thine be done" as he accepted the will of God and go to the cross. Trusting i the providence of God is the ultimate form of walking by faith, and it yields the fruit of righteousness. Read James 3:13-18

you go dave

 

[David H.]

To me, this is the milk. Grasping that is milk.

This is what repentance is, and when we repent, we start off not really understanding too much for the most part. And the old man continues to plow ahead in our lives, and we begin to learn what that's about, and start to get control. And we grow in understanding who we are in Christ, and who Christ is, and our lives begin to change.

As we see God's work in us, as we begin to experience Christ being formed in us, we come to greater understanding of His Word. Our live are a reflection of God's Word, and being obedient to follow where He leads each of us, this is are participation in the process. Working out what He works in.

The Bible's reflection in our lives gives us understanding into the Bible, and this is the meat.

When will you stop being the pilot?

All these continuing comments like, ""A concept you cannot seem to grasp", this is fleshy and not Spirit. Consider this.

Much love!

Your focus, again is all on the mind of man, not the presence of God in our lives. (See highlighted words in your comment above)...

My point in this OP is that meat is when we come to acknowledge our lack of understanding the infinite immortal God and then we can learn to digest the meat as we are fed by the Spirit of Truth, the manna from heaven. This is the "experience" that leads us to stop the divisions caused by the doctrines of men which come from the man's understanding and we come to know "Him who is from the beginning". It is a point of brokenness and loss of faith in our own understanding that he then can teach us.

People here commenting have touched upon this, as in childlike faith, but that is the point of this, it is learning to trust not in our own understanding but coming before God and saying "Lord thou knowest" As Ezekiel did when asked if the dry bones shall live. It is a total acknowledgment of our inability to know that we can then be taught by the Creator.

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)

Notice the word "craftiness" is the same as used in Ephesians 4:14....

 

[theefaith]

No, By His work in us (Ephesians 2:10) His righteousness yields fruit in us.

so we are called to faith alone?

 

[David H.]

so we are called to faith alone?

Faith grows, like a mustard seed.... "oh ye of little faith"....

 

[bbyrd009]

I’m confused of whether it is a good thing or a bad thing

Paul is a master of misdirection, and his writings are really nothing short of masterpieces imo, as evidenced by the overwhelming quotation of “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” which isnt really in There, and this example. Im still learning how to read Paul, but i suggest that when he sounds complimentary of a concept he is denigrating it, and vice versa, at least quite often

‘Full age’ …is that similar to 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man(full age?), I put away childish things

i would guess that in typical Bible fashion, this is a use of “full age” in the opposite, beneficial sense, which im not sure what thread im on here at the moment, but is even done with “meat”

Is discernment a gift of the Holy Spirit? Without the Holy Spirit do we lack discernment?

i would say yes to both, but i would also point out that “Holy Spirit” has been defined for us by a scribe, basically, meaning that one should develop their own definition

Is discernment an evil thing? Jonah 4:10-11 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: [11] And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

i dont expect that discernment via our senses is “evil” so much as they are irrelevant to discerning spiritual things…as Jonah demonstrates that he(we) are often ignorant of?

 

[theefaith]

Faith grows, like a mustard seed.... "oh ye of little faith"....

that’s not my question

 

[marks]

when we stop relying on our own will and strength and intelligence and learn to trust in His providence,

As we go through our lives, we increase in the outworking of our faith, and in self control, a more active and consistent trusting in Jesus concerning everything. We all have different issues in our lives, we all have different areas that are difficult to trust God concerning, and these often regard suffering. Trusting God that "this pain" no matter how severe brings a gift from God is so very different from the ways of the flesh.

This is all part of renewing the mind, as we come to understand that yes, in fact, this very pain, this very suffering, is here to help me, to improve me, to bring me a gift from God. And so we come to no longer perceive the circumstances of our lives as random acts of torture or whatever ideas we have, we come to see ourselves in lives overseen by our Creator, in every detail, by our Creator Who loves us.

This renewing, at best, should be happening continually as we identify thoughts and feelings and actions that don't match up to God's Word, to trust and love. God of course is the One overseeing this process, like everything else, and He's promised us, well, He's promised us so very much!

Sometimes this renewing may seem to have "watershed moments", but, like a "mountaintop experience", these are very subjective to the person, and oftentimes, I think, have a lot more behind them than simply some "sudden realization", or "moment of brokenness". I don't consider those impossible, of course not! Only that a "moment of brokenness" is often, I think, preceded by a great deal of preparation, and more represents leaping the next hurdle as we run our race.

Renewing some particularly tough bit of the old man thinking.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It’s rather humiliating.

Precisely!

:)

It's when we realize we are nothing! And as we go along, we begin to understand what an elevated view of ourselves that is!

Much love!