Explain Revelations So Even I Can Understand It

[Davy]

Are you sure you are not inserting the word "present" to fit your doctrine.

Well just which world existed at the time 'when' Lord Jesus said that per John 18:36? Duh...

That SAME world is existing today, at PRESENT!

But maybe you think... you are in another world? If so, then I definitely agree, you are in a different world than everyone else, if you cannot understand that we're still in the SAME world of Jesus' 1st coming!

 

[Wrangler]

Let me get this straight, you call the idea in God's Word about the difference between this earthly place we live in and the heavenly place where God and the angels dwell, as "dualism"? I've never heard anything more ignorant in my life.

No. You are appealing to Strawman, moving the goal posts.

It's because he, nor you evidently, understand the difference between the two dimensions in God's Word, the physical vs. the spiritual.

Notice how there is no "place" in your original post that I responded to?

Anyway, I've read enough. I shake the dust off my feet and leave you feeling superior and me saying things more ignorant that you've ever heard.


Be friendly with everyone. Don’t be proud and feel that you are smarter than others. Make friends with ordinary people.
Romans 12:16 Contemporary English Version

 

[Wrangler]

You mean the New Covenant CHANGED where God said He will dwell forever? Your idea is SO FUNNY!

Yes. The veil was torn. From What was the significance of the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died? | GotQuestions.org

When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with human hands (Acts 17:24)
​

We, our bodies, house the Spirit of God now, my friend. Welcome to the Kingdom.

 

[Ruminator]

Just read a thread about war in heaven via Rev 12:7. Though I read revelations 3x, I confess I cannot keep it in my head. I even read a book by a Rabbi who did an excellent analysis of connecting the many figurative passages.

The 1st time I read Revelations, I thought John must have been smoking something strong when he wrote it.

In the thread referenced above, several poster got into the phases of tribulation and that is not made clear to me from the text. Like Nostradamus predictions, passages are written so figuratively, they can be taken to mean nearly anything.

So, can anyone explain this book at a 4th grade level in just a short paragraph or two?

Revelation is "A Tale of Two Cities" which, Paul explains, represent two Covenants:

[Galatians 4:21-26 NASB20] (21) Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the Law? (22) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and one by the free woman. (23) But the son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. (24) This is speaking allegorically, for these [women] are two covenants: one [coming] from Mount Sinai giving birth to children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. (25) Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is enslaved with her children. (26) But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

In Revelation, one City/Covenant/Jerusalem is destroyed and the other descends from Heaven and represents the Bride/Body of Christ:

[Revelation 21:9-10 NASB20] (9) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." (10) And he carried me away in [the] Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

It is the violent destruction of Jerusalem via the Roman army c. 70 AD/CE and the arrival of the Bride/Body of Christ to prominence and power:

[Matthew 21:43 NKJV] (43) "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

 

[Wrangler]

Well just which world existed at the time 'when' Lord Jesus said that per John 18:36? Duh...

That SAME world is existing today, at PRESENT!

One cannot learn, indeed, one refuses to learn if one only asks rhetorical questions. Just admit that you are adding words to Scripture to fit your doctrine. In this case, 'present.' Then we can move on.

 

[Davy]

I wouldn't know about all your 'isms and accusations. But I do know that Jesus said the kingdom came two thousand years ago...which makes all your claims wrong, and none of what you say credible.

No, you only are taught to THINK that Christ's literal physical Kingdom is already manifest here on earth today. Sorry, but simple Church buildings with a sign on the front lawn that says 'Church' does not make that so. It's Christ's many-membered body today that makes up His Church here on earth, and if you'll notice, Lord Jesus is only with us in Spirit today, and that is going to change when He returns to this earth, as written!

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is going to literally, physically return to this earth from Heaven?

 

[Wrangler]

No, you only are taught to THINK that Christ's literal physical Kingdom is already manifest here on earth today.

What is it with you?
A. Reading comprehension problem?
B. Not aware that you keeping adding words to fit your doctrine?

While reject dualism, I realize the appropriateness of qualifiers in sentences. Bad apples are not the same as good apples.

However, there is a kind of hostility when someone makes an unqualified statement and you pretend it was qualified. Example. ‘The kingdom of God is here and now.’

You reply it is not physically here. That begs your friendly intent.
1. The statement is wrong unless it applies in EVERY WAY?
2. The statement is right if it applies in ANY WAY?

 

[Davy]

No. You are appealing to Strawman, moving the goal posts.

No I'm not.

You said:

The truth is that I reject dualism and understand its mystical roots, which contradict logic and therefore, truth.

What you said was in response to what I said with, "It's because he, nor you evidently, understand the difference between the two dimensions in God's Word, the physical vs. the spiritual."

What you show is that YOU do not even understand what man's theory of Dualism is about!

Dualism is about the idea of good and evil being two EQUAL powers striving against each other. That is NOT the idea of the two dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is about!

An example of Dualism is like the old religion of Zoroastrianism which held to two forces, one for good, one for evil, and that were equal in power. That is NOT what God's Word declares, NOR HAVE I EVER SAID ANY SUCH IDEA!

Thus you are the one practicing evil with trying to manipulate what I said.

As a matter of fact, it is usually PAGANS from OTHER RELIGIONS that confuse Christianity with Dualism, like Zoroastrianism. Satan is definitely NOT co-equal with GOD! Anyone who has actually studied their Bible well knows this.

 

[Davy]

Yes. The veil was torn. From What was the significance of the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died? | GotQuestions.org

When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with human hands (Acts 17:24)
​

We, our bodies, house the Spirit of God now, my friend. Welcome to the Kingdom.

Yeah, that came in Spirit! but not in the physical, because do you really think today your flesh body is going to live eternally??

Go ahead, believe in your fairy tale that your flesh body right now is forever! It ain't.

Oh, do I mean something MORE is to come when Lord Jesus returns in the future, and THAT... is WHEN He gives us ETERNAL LIFE, with glorious bodies??? YEAH!

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

So you believe that above already happened, huh?

Come on, I want to hear you admit to everyone here how wrong you are with rejecting Christ's future coming back to this earth.

 

[Davy]

Revelation is "A Tale of Two Cities" which, Paul explains, represent two Covenants:

[Galatians 4:21-26 NASB20] (21) Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the Law? (22) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and one by the free woman. (23) But the son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. (24) This is speaking allegorically, for these [women] are two covenants: one [coming] from Mount Sinai giving birth to children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. (25) Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is enslaved with her children. (26) But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

In Revelation, one City/Covenant/Jerusalem is destroyed and the other descends from Heaven and represents the Bride/Body of Christ:

[Revelation 21:9-10 NASB20] (9) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." (10) And he carried me away in [the] Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

It is the violent destruction of Jerusalem via the Roman army c. 70 AD/CE and the arrival of the Bride/Body of Christ to prominence and power:

[Matthew 21:43 NKJV] (43) "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

Nothing but men's doctrines of speculative philosophy misinterpreting Bible Scripture.

 

[Davy]

One cannot learn, indeed, one refuses to learn if one only asks rhetorical questions. Just admit that you are adding words to Scripture to fit your doctrine. In this case, 'present.' Then we can move on.

What I did is to show others here how you obviously lack common sense with such baloney statement like your straining at a gnat with the word 'present'.

 

[Davy]

What is it with you?
A. Reading comprehension problem?
B. Not aware that you keeping adding words to fit your doctrine?

While reject dualism, I realize the appropriateness of qualifiers in sentences. Bad apples are not the same as good apples.

Oh, so now you want to leave... discussion of Scripture altogether, and instead push jibberish and balderdash instead, hmm...., so that's really what you come here for?

Can't you stick to the topic?

And yes, you do NOT know what the idea of 'Dualism' means.

Consider what I have said to you as 'rebuke' per Christian Doctrine. You have left The Word of God by trying to push Dualism into the Biblical doctrine of the earthly realm and the heavenly realm.

You also are guilty of pushing men's doctrines of Preterism with denying Christ's literal future KINGDOM to come. And in the process, you have wrongly borne evil witness against me with trying to imply that I reject Christ's SPIRITUAL kingdom which is of The Spirit and is NOW here with His believers on earth, which I have NEVER rejected!

May my Heavenly Father and His Son rebuke you.

 

[quietthinker]

hmmm, what a can of worms.....each blaming the other! Blaming! where does that spirit come from?

 

[ScottA]

No, you only are taught to THINK that Christ's literal physical Kingdom is already manifest here on earth today. Sorry, but simple Church buildings with a sign on the front lawn that says 'Church' does not make that so. It's Christ's many-membered body today that makes up His Church here on earth, and if you'll notice, Lord Jesus is only with us in Spirit today, and that is going to change when He returns to this earth, as written!

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is going to literally, physically return to this earth from Heaven?

Boy oh boy...more pet peeve venting, having nothing to do with me

Anyway, no, scripture does not tell of a "physical" return of Christ, but rather a return in the glory of the Father, whom is spirit. Your translation is in error, as it does not agree with all of scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh, so now you want to leave

I asked you a question boy!

You reply it is not physically here. That begs your friendly intent.
1. The statement is wrong unless it applies in EVERY WAY?
2. The statement is right if it applies in ANY WAY?

If you cannot answer questions, I have no use for you.

 

[quietthinker]

If you cannot answer questions, I have no use for you.

wince...is that what Jesus says to you Wrangler?

 

[Wrangler]

wince...is that what Jesus says to you Wrangler?

What Jesus says? No matter how feminized people want to make Jesus out to be, one day he will cast people into the Lake of Fire.

And you are comparing what I say to what Jesus does/will do? wince

 

[quietthinker]

What Jesus says? No matter how feminized people want to make Jesus out to be, one day he will cast people into the Lake of Fire.

And you are comparing what I say to what Jesus does/will do? wince

do you really believe Jesus will cast people into the lake of fire?

 

[Wrangler]

do you really believe Jesus will cast people into the lake of fire?

I see. Just abandon the point and attack in the form of a question! A question you know full well the answer.

100%. Scripture is explicit on this.

The scene changed. I saw a great white throne, and One was seated upon it. ... all were judged according to their works. ... And everyone whose name could not be found among the names written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11- 15 (VOICE)

 

[quietthinker]

I see. Just abandon the point and attack in the form of a question! A question you know full well the answer.

100%. Scripture is explicit on this.

The scene changed. I saw a great white throne, and One was seated upon it. ... all were judged according to their works. ... And everyone whose name could not be found among the names written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11- 15 (VOICE)

well, If he's gonna throw people in the lake of fire, whats the point dying for them?