Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

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Taken

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The scriptural support for this is sorely lacking. Instead, the scriptures say that man became a living soul, not that man has a living soul that comes into him.

You are seemingly projecting your beliefs into an explanation of what you want the scriptures to say. But do the scriptures ACTUALLY support such a stance? Me thinks not. Actually, we do NOT understand how our existence and personhood can be definitively and 100% accurately explained yet. Saying we do is at best a wishful reach and more likely just a flat out lie.

Man is a body, formed from dust, Life of the body is it’s BLOOD.
Man was given, a soul, (that belongs to God), Life of the soul is GODS BREATH.
Man has a natural spirit, (that is a natural mans Truth,)IN his HEART.

A man CONVERTED “IN” Christ HAS:
A Dead Body, crucified with Christ, Kept Sanctified (set Apart) with Christ, Justified to be risen in Glory.
A Saved soul, that Life of Gods Breath will NOT depart, thus the soul Remains LIVING and WITH the Lord God, whether IN a living Body, or DEPARTED out of a physically DEAD Body.
A Born Again Spirit, is a mans natural spirit, BORN AGAIN of Gods Seed.

Yes, a Man...is a body, has a body.
Yes, a Man...is a living soul, has a living soul.
Yes, a Man...has a spirit, but is NOT a spirit.

Do a Scriptural Word study about SOULS, and learn the truth for yourself.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Aunty Jane

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Man is a body, formed from dust, Life of the body is it’s BLOOD.
You've got that one almost right....
According to the Jewish Tanakh, Genesis 9:3-4 says...
"Every moving thing that lives shall be yours to eat; like the green vegetation, I have given you everything.
But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat."

In the Hebrew scriptures, the "soul" is the life blood of a human. Which is why "soul for soul" means "life for life" because blood is what atoned for sin. Only a living creature has blood circulating in its veins, carrying oxygen to every cell in its body.

Man was given, a soul, (that belongs to God), Life of the soul is GODS BREATH.
That is not what the scriptures say at all....
Genesis 2:7, again from the Tanakh...
"And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul."
The man "became a soul"...he was not given one.

The "soul" was the person...the whole of what made them who they were. It means "a breather"...a creature with blood in its veins. Souls are mortal. They can die because they are not created to be immortal. (Ezekiel 18:4) The words "immortal soul" do not appear in a single passage of scripture.

Man has a natural spirit, (that is a natural mans Truth,)IN his HEART.
I have never read anything like that in the Bible....
"Spirit" is another grossly misinterpreted word. The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath” but can have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. All references to "spirit" in the scriptures have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. This invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

Do a Scriptural Word study about SOULS, and learn the truth for yourself.
That is a good idea for all of us really....the Bible is pretty clear in what it teaches, but Christendom has distorted what it says to support ideas that crept into the church so long ago that no one thinks to question them. I believe that your explanation is evidence of that....an interpretation that the Bible does not support.
 

Taken

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You've got that one almost right....
According to the Jewish Tanakh, Genesis 9:3-4 says...
"Every moving thing that lives shall be yours to eat; like the green vegetation, I have given you everything.
But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat."

In the Hebrew scriptures, the "soul" is the life blood of a human. Which is why "soul for soul" means "life for life" because blood is what atoned for sin. Only a living creature has blood circulating in its veins, carrying oxygen to every cell in its body.


That is not what the scriptures say at all....
Genesis 2:7, again from the Tanakh...
"And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul."
The man "became a soul"...he was not given one.

The "soul" was the person...the whole of what made them who they were. It means "a breather"...a creature with blood in its veins. Souls are mortal. They can die because they are not created to be immortal. (Ezekiel 18:4) The words "immortal soul" do not appear in a single passage of scripture.


I have never read anything like that in the Bible....
"Spirit" is another grossly misinterpreted word. The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath” but can have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. All references to "spirit" in the scriptures have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. This invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.


That is a good idea for all of us really....the Bible is pretty clear in what it teaches, but Christendom has distorted what it says to support ideas that crept into the church so long ago that no one thinks to question them. I believe that your explanation is evidence of that....an interpretation that the Bible does not support.

Continue studying...It is the WHOLE of a man...body, soul, spirit...separate things OF ONE “whole” man.
Mans WHOLE spirit, Mans WHOLE soul, Mans WHOLE body...
your reveals possessive of ONE man.
wholereveals all inclusive of ONE man.
spirit, soul, body reveals WHAT is the WHOLE of ONE man.

A mans “wholeness”, body, soul, spirit, while separate “things”, are all “identified” by the mans “NAME”.
Each “thing” is specific to ONE man.
Each “thing” is Possessive (I, me, my, mine,) of ONE man.
ie. “My body aches”, “My soul grieves”, “My spirit is secure IN Christ”, etc.


1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Each “thing” is From separate “origins”
...body from Dust, soul from Gods Breath, spirit from Gods Seed.
Each “thing” is “restored, saved, quickened, separately.
...body, a New creature, Risen in Glory
...soul, Restored, Saved.
...spirit, Born Again

I stand by my statement.
Glory to God,
Taken
 

Aunty Jane

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Continue studying...It is the WHOLE of a man...body, soul, spirit...separate things OF ONE “whole” man.
Mans WHOLE spirit, Mans WHOLE soul, Mans WHOLE body...
your reveals possessive of ONE man.
wholereveals all inclusive of ONE man.
spirit, soul, body reveals WHAT is the WHOLE of ONE man.
I don’t totally disagree with this...what I disagreed with is what you stated....man was not “given” a soul as if it was something separate from the body...inserted later.
A soul is a living breathing creature....again, not something separate from the living creature.

The “spirit” is the breath that keep creatures alive. It’s not a separate entity either. That “one whole man” is subject to death....nothing survives the death of that soul. That is what the Bible teaches. Resurrection is a restoration of life, not a continuation of it. Only the elect “who remain till the coming of the Lord” will experience an instant resurrection. This is the new birth or being “born again”....becoming an entirely new creature....which is necessary for life in heaven.

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In context, this scripture is speaking about the body of believers in the congregation....it is not talking about individuals. Read in that context, it isn’t saying what you want it to.

Each “thing” is From separate “origins”
...body from Dust, soul from Gods Breath, spirit from Gods Seed.
Each “thing” is part of one creation. Not separate origins at all....God created the whole package....Adam was not created in parts.

I stand by my statement.
Glory to God,

As you wish....each has to make sure of the truth they have accepted because we don’t get second chances here. Jesus will judge us on how we respond to his truth...not our own. (Matthew 7:21-23)
 

post

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Each “thing” is part of one creation. Not separate origins at all....God created the whole package....Adam was not created in parts.

well, God formed him from the dust, and then gave him breath - at which point he became a living soul.
so the body was first, but it was not Adam until God imparted him life.

that breath returns to God who gave it; it isn't extinguished. so man isn't annihilated by physical death; only separated from the body.
He is the God of the living, not the dead: Adam still lives, waiting for his body to be redeemed.

the monist believes that only the body exists - he believes he ceases to exist when the temporary dust cloud he inhabits, dissipates.
effectively, the monist teaches that he has never existed: that he is nothing more than a temporary illusion of existence waiting to be revealed over time as non-existence.
 

Aunty Jane

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so the body was first, but it was not Adam until God imparted him life.
Adam was not a living “soul” until God gave him breath. When our last breath leaves our lungs, it doesn’t literally go anywhere....it returns to God symbolically because God is the only one who can restore the breath of life in a newly created body in the resurrection.
There is no life without breath....not even for animals. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

that breath returns to God who gave it; it isn't extinguished. so man isn't annihilated by physical death; only separated from the body.
He is the God of the living, not the dead: Adam still lives, waiting for his body to be redeemed.
Since ‘the spirit returns to God’ symbolically, humans go back to the dust until God re-creates them and gives them life again. This is what a resurrection is. It is not a continuation of life but a cessation of it.....albeit a temporary one. The dead will not have any memory of how long they have slept.....there will be no consciousness of the passage of time......just the same way we have no knowledge of time when we sleep naturally. Unless you look at a clock, you have no idea how long you have been asleep. No part of man survives death. Why is that so hard to process? Where were you before you were conceived?

Unfortunately for Adam, there will be no resurrection for him. He will remain in the dust because there was no basis upon which to forgive him. He did not make a mistake, any more than the devil did. He made a willfull and deliberated decision to disobey a direct command of God, which carried the death penalty. The woman was deceived, but Adam was not. Neither of them uttered a word of repentance because they knew it was useless. Adam died for his own sin and will never be seen again. His children however were born in sin through no fault on their part.....Jesus gave his life to redeem them....but only if they prove worthy.
Redemption saves us from eternal slavery to sin and death....and from God’s anger expressed towards all who take the devil’s side by failing to “do the will of the Father”. (Matthew 7:21-23)
 

Taken

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I don’t totally disagree with this...what I disagreed with is what you stated....man was not “given” a soul as if it was something separate from the body...inserted later.
A soul is a living breathing creature....again, not something separate from the living creature.

The “spirit” is the breath that keep creatures alive. It’s not a separate entity either. That “one whole man” is subject to death....nothing survives the death of that soul. That is what the Bible teaches. Resurrection is a restoration of life, not a continuation of it. Only the elect “who remain till the coming of the Lord” will experience an instant resurrection. This is the new birth or being “born again”....becoming an entirely new creature....which is necessary for life in heaven.


In context, this scripture is speaking about the body of believers in the congregation....it is not talking about individuals. Read in that context, it isn’t saying what you want it to.


Each “thing” is part of one creation. Not separate origins at all....God created the whole package....Adam was not created in parts.



As you wish....each has to make sure of the truth they have accepted because we don’t get second chances here. Jesus will judge us on how we respond to his truth...not our own. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Will respond later.
 

post

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Neither of them uttered a word of repentance

"I did eat"
- Woman

"I did eat"
- Adam

That's confession. And then God shed blood & and made coverings for them. And Adam called her 'mother of all the living'

Jane, your post is absolutely FULL of error.
I'll try to get back to it but you are going to take a lot of time to correct.
 

Taken

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I don’t totally disagree with this...what I disagreed with is what you stated....man was not “given” a soul as if it was something separate from the body...inserted later.
A soul is a living breathing creature....again, not something separate from the living creature.

Gen 1:26 Is a revealing of Gods own thought within Himself.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

Gen 1:27 Is revealing of what God DID, based on His own thought.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

Continue in Gen. and you discover, God CREATED a man, and WHAT God CREATED a Man from (dust of the earth). WHAT God called WHAT He was Doing (Forming a BODY) And WHAT the CREATED thing God called it...(A man).

Great...God CREATED a thing called a man, By God Forming the dust of the earth into a shape, a body.
Fact IS: that Formed Body, was neither ALIVE or DEAD.
Fact IS: that Formed Body was IN THE IMAGE of God.

End of story...right? No.

Gen 2:7 elaborates OF HOW GOD “MADE” man IN GODS LIKENESS.

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God FORMED MAN of the dust of the ground, (created)
AND breathed INTO his nostrils the breath of life; (made)
AND man became a living soul.
(Created the FORM in Gods IMAGE AND MADE the FORM in Gods LIKENESS....ALIVE!...and called the FORM with LIFE...
A LIVING SOUL.

The FORM was CREATED “FIRST”....AND THEN the FORM was MADE “ALIVE”.

The FORMED Body and the Life of Gods Breath Blown INTO the nostrils of the FORMED BODY....BOTH HAVE the SAME “IDENTITY”...called BY the SAME NAME.
It is a Possessional Identity...my body, my soul, my identity, my name.

So what is a FORM, without a Living soul?
Is it still a Formed Body?
Is it still a Man-KIND of thing?
When a Man-KIND of Formed thing CEASES BEING ALIVE...
Does the Breath of Life God Breathed INTO the Form, CEASE being ALIVE, WHEN the FORM Dies?......NO.

The FORM came FROM DUST.
The BREATH OF LIFE came FROM GOD.

Those TWO things DID NOT COME from the SAME “place”.
Those TWO things DID NOT COME at the SAME “time”.
Those TWO things DO NOT RETURN to the SAME “place”.
Those TWO things ARE NOT the SAME “things”.
Those TWO things Have the SAME “NAME IDENTITY”.

A recap...CREATED and MADE...and called WHAT, by WHOM, WHEN.

Gen 5:
[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
 

Aunty Jane

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"I did eat"
- Woman

"I did eat"
- Adam

That's confession. And then God shed blood & and made coverings for them. And Adam called her 'mother of all the living'
What on earth has that got to do with the subject at hand? Confession was because they got caught...guilt ridden, but there is no expression of remorse. There was no sacrifice ever offered by them. Abel was the first one to show that kind of appreciation to his God.
Who said that God shed blood? Where is that written?

Jane, your post is absolutely FULL of error.
I'll try to get back to it but you are going to take a lot of time to correct.
Spare me...I have 50 years of deep Bible study under my belt.....thoroughly investigated every question that the scriptures raise, and someone like you who is stuck in the errors that I used to believe, is not going to bore me with misinterpreted verses that say what you want them to. Been there and done that too many times.

Save your breath...or typing....or cut and paste.....
 

Taken

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The “spirit” is the breath that keep creatures alive. It’s not a separate entity either. That “one whole man” is subject to death....nothing survives the death of that soul. That is what the Bible teaches. Resurrection is a restoration of life, not a continuation of it. Only the elect “who remain till the coming of the Lord” will experience an instant resurrection. This is the new birth or being “born again”....becoming an entirely new creature....which is necessary for life in heaven.

The “creature”...a man-KIND of thing, was “created” with its “own” LIFE.
It’s OWN LIFE..must Become “ACTIVATED”...with a “POWER SOURCE”.
That “POWER SOURCE” IS “Gods Breath”.
Yes God “IS” Spirit.

The Understanding IS: God IS, “SUPREME POWER”. All “POWER” Given TO a “KIND” of created thing...IS GIVEN “as MUCH or as LITTLE” POWER as God Himself “GIVES” that thing.

WE KNOW, from Scriptural Knowledge, God has “given” Great Power to Gods Celestial creations, being Greater Power than God “gave” to Gods Terrestrial creations.

WE KNOW, also, Some of Gods Celestial creations Have been given Greater Power than other Celestial creations.

WE KNOW, also, Some of Gods Terrestrial Animal-KIND of creations Have been given Greater Power than other Terrestrial Animal-KIND of creations.

WE KNOW, also, Some of Gods Terrestrial Man-KIND of creations Have been given Greater Power than other Terrestrial Man-KIND of creations.

Point Being...Every Man-Kind of Terrestrial creation...(formed Body) DOES NOT receive “POWER from Gods Breath”...and Never Becomes ACTIVATED into a LIVING BODY.

Point Being...Every Man-Kind of Terrestrial creation...(formed Body) THAT DOES receive “POWER from Gods Breath”...and BECOMES an ACTIVATED “LIVING BODY”...IS a BODY by which that BODY’S LIFE Becomes ALIVE...
...A BODY’S LIFE....”IS” it’s BLOOD. A BODY’S Blood, KEEPS that Body ALIVE.
...Gods Breath IN the SOUL, IN the BODY, KEEPS the BODY’S BLOOD alive.

Any man CAN CAUSE, his own blood (life), (or an others), to STOP flowing, STOP maintaining the LIFE of his Body. Stop the flow of the BLOOD (LIFE)...
The BODY shall CEASE Living. The Blood will stop moving, passing through the Heart, the Heart will stop pumping and pushing the Blood through the Body, and the Body shall DIE, and begin rotting, decaying, stinking, Returning to from whence it came....DUST of the Earth.

AND what about the “soul”? Life IN the SOUL From Gods Breath?
Gods “LIFE” Never ceases Living.
The “soul” given a man...BELONGS TO GOD.
Ezek 18:
[4] Behold, all souls are mine...

Life IN the Soul, belongs TO GOD.
Life IN the Soul, GIVES a BODY “power/life FROM God” ... FOR that BODY to become “MADE” alive.
The Soul, belongs TO GOD.
Souls, “WITH Gods Breath (LIFE)”...DEPART, LEAVE, a BODY that IS DYING.

WE Know, WHERE the BODY, VOID of it Blood LIFE Goes...it returns to the Dust.
SO WHERE, does the SOUL (with Gods Breath of Life) GO?
IT GOES TO WHERE GOD....SENDS IT!
WHICH IS WHERE?
* Heaven, WITH God....OR.....Hell, Separated from God, ie. WITHOUT God.

AND?
WHAT determines, WHERE God WILL “SEND” a soul with Gods Breath of Life IN IT?
* The individual mans (Bodily life...ie Hearts Belief) “AT the TIME” of the mans BODILY DEATH.
* IF “at the moment in Time” of the mans Bodily Death...the mans “HEARTFUL BELIEF”....Believed IN GOD...”that Living Soul” Goes to BE “WITH” God “in Heaven”.
* IF “at the moment in Time” of the mans Bodily Death...the mans “Heartful Belief”....did NOT BELIEVE IN GOD....”that Living Soul” Goes to Hell, to BE Separated and “WITHOUT” God.
THAT ^ was a 4,000 year old MYSTERY to man-KIND....of KNOWING WHAT SHALL OCCUR....BUT NOT knowing the exact Moment of the Time of their Bodily Death....or “WHEN it WILL” specifically “occur”.
* Men Have BEEN “WARNED” for Centuries...OT and NT...”IF” a man ENDURES, to “his end”, by Believing, and Keep Believing....the man WILL BE saved.....BUT “IF” he stops Believing, and Bodily Dies while he has STOPPED believing....his living soul SHALL NOT BE SAVED...and his Departed Living should SHALL BE separated from God, and NOT WITH God.
* Ya OKAY...SO WHAT?
THE WARNING INCLUDES KNOWLEDGE...the world is FULL of (powerful, cunning, clever) EVIL spirits, Wicked (powerful positioned men)...with smooth clever speech to INFLUENCE men (and sometimes Threaten and Force) TO REJECT God; TO “instead”, ACCEPT THEM, as their “god”, their “keeper”, their “savior”, their “protector”, etc.

* So, point being....Bodily man-KIND absolutely has the OPTION to take the risk, of HOPING they are STRONG enough TO NOT BE “influenced”, “threatened”, “forced....by Evil spirits (that ARE more powerful than mankind) or Wicked men (who sit in Ruling Kingships with Power OVER men)...
OR...

* FOR the last 2,000 YEARS, men were Offered, a New Testimony, of a New Offering, of a New Covenant (PROMISE)....TO Learn About, TO Consider TO “accept”...OR “reject”...(according TO the Individuals OWN word, and the Individuals OWN freely made CONFESSION.)
* This New Testimony, Offering, Covenant was revealed to mankind...
BY, THROUGH, OF....the Word of God, God Himself Sent to Earth, in the “likeness” as a man; For mankind to HEAR and SEE and LEARN and “individually FREELY choose to ACCEPT...or REJECT”.

* This New Offering, EXPRESSLY, gives the individual man, GREATER “LIFE” from God AND “Greater power” from God.
* This New Offering, EXPRESSLY, gives the individual man, IF the man ACCEPTS the Offering a SURETY, a GUARANTEE, his soul life, and new spirit life WILL FOREVER BE .... “WITH” the Lord God Almighty.

* THAT ^ surety, guarantee, greater power (if accepted)...VOIDS a man hoping to be “WITH” God, VOIDS a man hoping he is not “influenced” by evil spirits and wicked men to stray AWAY from God, VOIDS a man depending on his own “limited” power.
* THAT surety, guarantee, greater power....IS given a man, IS kept/maintained/preserved ... Expressly BY the POWER of God “IN” the man and NO POWER, IS greater than Gods Power.

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

No man, No evil spirit CAN supersede the POWER OF GOD...IN a man.

* Men are NOT forced to Accept Gods Offering.
* Men WHO, do NOT Accept Gods Offering....MAY believe, and MAY KEEP in BELIEF to the moment of their Bodily Death...and their living soul saved WITH God.
* Men WHO, DO ACCEPT Gods Offering...DO believe, and ARE “made to BE WITH God”, Before their “bodily’ Death. Their “soul” IS SAVED. Their “spirit” IS “made” alive (greater power of Gods Life in the man)...and their soul and spirit SHALL NEVER BE separated or “WITHOUT” God.
* THEY (soul & spirit) WAIT, “WITH” God, FOR the manifestation of their BODY to be “raised and changed”, from corrupt rotting flesh, TO a glorified ever Living Body.
 

Aunty Jane

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The FORM came FROM DUST.
The BREATH OF LIFE came FROM GOD.
Both came from God. Who created the materials from which his creation came?

Those TWO things DID NOT COME from the SAME “place”.
Those TWO things DID NOT COME at the SAME “time”.
Those TWO things DO NOT RETURN to the SAME “place”.
Those TWO things ARE NOT the SAME “things”.
Those TWO things Have the SAME “NAME IDENTITY”.
The body formed was not Adam but the physical 'container' of the personality which Adam became with the animating spirit that sustains breathing. Our persona resides in the brain, so once brain death occurs the "soul" is deceased. Souls are mortal...they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

A recap...CREATED and MADE...and called WHAT, by WHOM, WHEN.

Gen 5:
[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
God "created" but 'creation' came "through" the agency of the Son. (Colossians 1:15-17) From the raw materials that God brought into existence by his abundant energy, the Son "made" (fashioned) everything that exists, apart from his God and Father of whom he was 'begotten'. Working as a team, Father ans son produced all that exists in heaven, the Universe, and on earth. (Proverbs 8:30-31)

Create is..."bārā'"

Made is..."ʿāśâ"
Adʹam means "Earthling Man; Mankind; Humankind; from a root meaning “red”.

Made in the likeness of his Grand Creator, Adam had the divine attributes of love, wisdom, justice, and power; hence he possessed a sense of morality involving a conscience, something that was altogether new in the sphere of earthly life.

Made in "the image of God", Adam was to be a global administrator and have in subjection the sea and land creatures and the birds of the air. He was to be God's representative on earth, taking care of all of God's creations.....possessing the qualities that God himself has in order to carry out his assignment successfully. But free will was his undoing.
 

Taken

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In context, this scripture is speaking about the body of believers in the congregation....it is not talking about individuals. Read in that context, it isn’t saying what you want it to.

In context. That scripture reveals three separate things OF ONE WHOLE MAN.
A Body, A soul, A spirit.

Each “thing” is part of one creation. Not separate origins at all....God created the whole package....Adam was not created in parts.

God “created” mans one body.
God “THEN” by His POWER “makes” that body Alive.
God will also, “MAKE” a body Dead.
God will also, “MAKE” body’s Alive.
God will also, “MAKE” body’s Dead forever.
God will also, “MAKE” body’s Alive forever.

Blood LIFE in a BODY of a man, IS “temporary.”
Gods (breath) LIFE in a soul, IS “permanent” for some...and IS “temporary” for others.
Gods (spirit) Life in a mans spirit, “IS” “permanent.”

I never said ADAM was “created” in parts.
Adam was certainly “created” WITH body “parts”.
I expressly said, After Adams BODY was “CREATED”...God “MADE” that body become ALIVE.
 

Taken

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Both came from God. Who created the materials from which his creation came?

The “materials” ? The materials from which God created mankind IS the Earth. The Earth is expressly, DRY land.

The body formed was not Adam but the physical 'container' of the personality which Adam became with the animating spirit that sustains breathing. Our persona resides in the brain, so once brain death occurs the "soul" is deceased. Souls are mortal...they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

God "created" but 'creation' came "through" the agency of the Son.

I was speaking of spiritual things. Gods creation AND making of mankind, and Gods Life source.
You are speaking of your perspective of carnal things;
The body of Adam, not Adam? The container, the personality, the brain, soul “deceased”, souls mortal, agency....? hokey.

If you do not comprehend Gods creation is one thing, and Gods making of his creation a specific thing, or mans body is from the earth, and souls belonging to God, with Gods Breath is put into a mans body, and the power of Gods Spirit IN a man saves and preserves a man to be with God then and forever, then we are speaking from totally different aspects of understanding and not fruitful to continue.
 

Aunty Jane

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WE Know, WHERE the BODY, VOID of it Blood LIFE Goes...it returns to the Dust.
SO WHERE, does the SOUL (with Gods Breath of Life) GO?
IT GOES TO WHERE GOD....SENDS IT!
WHICH IS WHERE?
* Heaven, WITH God....OR.....Hell, Separated from God, ie. WITHOUT God.
The body devoid of life goes back to the dust of the earth....the earth itself consumes it through natural processes of decay, helped along by other living things like bacteria and the 'clean up crew' that God created to keep his planet unpolluted.

AND?
WHAT determines, WHERE God WILL “SEND” a soul with Gods Breath of Life IN IT?
You've missed the point...a "soul" (person) that has ceased breathing has no breath (spirit) of life in it.
The soul is completely mortal. Animals are "souls"....they breathe the same air and die the same death as we do. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) Dead means dead. Death is the opposite of life.
The Bible does not speak of life after death...it teaches resurrection. (John 11:11-14)

* The individual mans (Bodily life...ie Hearts Belief) “AT the TIME” of the mans BODILY DEATH.
* IF “at the moment in Time” of the mans Bodily Death...the mans “HEARTFUL BELIEF”....Believed IN GOD...”that Living Soul” Goes to BE “WITH” God “in Heaven”.
Please provide scripture that says that....human beings were never meant to go to heaven. They were designed to live forever right here on earth. Why would God put humans here on earth only to take them to heaven, when he already has a large spiritual family there who were never former humans?

* IF “at the moment in Time” of the mans Bodily Death...the mans “Heartful Belief”....did NOT BELIEVE IN GOD....”that Living Soul” Goes to Hell, to BE Separated and “WITHOUT” God.
Living souls are not dead.....in order to be a "soul" a body has to be breathing. Are people breathing hell?
Why would God send some to a hell of torment when it serves no useful purpose? The dead who are in "Gehenna" have eternal separation from God because they aren't in line for a resurrection....
Those in Gehenna (also called the Lake of Fire") are not alive.....
Matthew 10:28...
"And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
Those in Gehenna are "destroyed". Gehenna is not "hell"....and its not hot.

The “materials” ? The materials from which God created mankind IS the Earth. The Earth is expressly, DRY land.
Do you really think that God formed man out of literal dirt? Science tells us that our bodies are made up of elements of the earth....
"By mass, about 96 percent of our bodies are made of four key elements: oxygen (65 percent), carbon (18.5 percent), hydrogen (9.5 percent) and nitrogen (3.3 percent)." (Google search)
And 70% of our body is made of water. The dust is not literal but the components are.

I was speaking of spiritual things. Gods creation AND making of mankind, and Gods Life source.
You are speaking of your perspective of carnal things;
The body of Adam, not Adam? The container, the personality, the brain, soul “deceased”, souls mortal, agency....? hokey.
I am simply speaking about what the Bible says...simply and clearly. It only "hokey" to those with a mindset that cannot entertain a different concept.

If you do not comprehend Gods creation is one thing, and Gods making of his creation a specific thing, or mans body is from the earth, and souls belonging to God, with Gods Breath is put into a mans body, and the power of Gods Spirit IN a man saves and preserves a man to be with God then and forever, then we are speaking from totally different aspects of understanding and not fruitful to continue.
I can comprehend what the Bible says with no problem at all....I find it hard to comprehend all the differing ideas that people present whilst all claiming to be taught by Christ. Most of the stuff people post about their Christianity has little to do with anything Jesus taught. I find that quite odd, TBH.....
 

post

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What on earth has that got to do with the subject at hand? Confession was because they got caught...guilt ridden, but there is no expression of remorse. There was no sacrifice ever offered by them. Abel was the first one to show that kind of appreciation to his God.
Who said that God shed blood? Where is that written?

if you've really studied the Bible for 50 years you should know how Genesis 3 is entwined in all of it. if you have Genesis 3 wrong, you're going to have a really hard time getting anything else right in scripture. it's a good place to start.

we didn't make a sacrifice either - God did. He provided Himself, a Lamb.

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
(Genesis 3:21)​

why were Cain & Abel bringing an offering?
how long does it take to sew fig-leaf tunics?
why didn't Adam & Woman eat from the tree of life?

God didn't accept their coverings (('your sacrifices, filthy rags')). God removed them, and gave them new coverings, coverings made by His own hand, spilling the blood of two innocent, sinless living souls. God did not curse them, but her accuser and the ground for Adam. God kept the way to the tree of life. God promised them He would destroy death, and set about preparing a place.

where did Abel get the idea to sacrifice a lamb?
did Cain bring figs? why?
where was Cain supposed to get a lamb? why?

Adam called his dead wife full of death "mother of life" -- why?
Adam believed God, and God accounted it righteous, saying in the presence of all the angels, "Behold! - Adam has become like one of Us!"
which One of The Us? how?
the word is singular, with the definite article: Adam's name. not mankind plural. not a man in general. Adam.
why only Adam, not Eve?


50 years eh.
where does the time go
 

reformed1689

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I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.
John 17:20 blows this theory out of the water.
 

Taken

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The body devoid of life goes back to the dust of the earth....

Yes.

You've missed the point...a "soul" (person) that has ceased breathing has no breath (spirit) of life in it.
The soul is completely mortal. Animals are "souls"....they breathe the same air and die the same death as we do. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) Dead means dead. Death is the opposite of life.
The Bible does not speak of life after death...it teaches resurrection. (John 11:11-14)

Disagree with your understanding.

Please provide scripture that says that....human beings were never meant to go to heaven. They were designed to live forever right here on earth. Why would God put humans here on earth only to take them to heaven, when he already has a large spiritual family there who were never former humans?

Human- is a mortal body, out of the Earth, Called a man, given an identity Name, it’s mortal life is called Blood, it is appointed to mortally (Bodily) die.

A soul, belongs to God and contains Gods Breath Of Life, And is Given From God, To form-ED “Individual independent” Body’s...According to Gods Pleasure.
A human in the process of Becoming form-ED, is “dependent” on life From the mother’s (Life...Blood), through a temporary formed, Placenta.
Once the Human is Form-ED, it becomes Disconnected From “dependency” on the mothers Life...And Is given life and dependency OF Life...from And by God,
Through A Soul with Gods Breath, That God Himself gives that “individual” human.

That human Is his mortal body and that humans life is his blood.
The soul given that Body IS Gods.
The Life in that Soul IS Gods Life.
God IS Spirit.
God Gives Mortal Body’s Spiritual Life...
God Takes His Spiritual Life OUT From a mortal (Physical) Earthly Dying Body, at the Time God Appointed that Physical Mortal body ...To physically, mortally, Die, Rot and return to the dust of the Earth.

QUOTE] Living souls are not dead.....in order to be a "soul" a body has to be breathing. Are people breathing hell?
Why would God send some to a hell of torment when it serves no useful purpose? The dead who are in "Gehenna" have eternal separation from God because they aren't in line for a resurrection....
Those in Gehenna (also called the Lake of Fire") are not alive.....
Matthew 10:28...
"And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
Those in Gehenna are "destroyed". Gehenna is not "hell"....and its not hot.[/QUOTE]

People- ie Human Bodies originate Out OF the DUST (Surface) Of The Earth...They Do Not Come From, Originate From, Heaven (above the Earth) OR From Hell (Core center of The Earth).
Mortally Physically Dead bodys DO NOT “Return” To Heaven OR Hell. They didn’t come from there To “”return”” to there.

No “living souls” (IN alive mortal body’s OR Departed Out of mortally Dead Bodys)....ARE VOID of Gods Breath Of Life!!!
IOW- Every Soul God has Given it His Breath Of Life....IS Still A Living Soul...
Whether or not the mortal Body IS Still Alive!!

Death does have A “Mortal” meaning, which Applies exclusively To A Mortal Physical Bodily Life.
Spiritual Death does have A “Spiritual” meaning which Applies exclusively To A Spiritual Living “soul” and “spirit”...that albeit “LIVING”...IF it is AGAINST God....it is “WITHOUT” God...it IS Spiritually “Dead To God”!

IOW...Any soul or spirit ...Not WITH God, IS Against God, WITHOUT God...
and Accounted “Spiritually Dead”.
It’s A Spiritual Death!
 

Taken

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Do you really think that God formed man out of literal dirt?

Yes.

Science tells us that our bodies are made up of elements of the earth....
"By mass, about 96 percent of our ...The dust is not literal but the components are.

So Science has notified you the same elements of the Earth are elements that are in a human Earthly Body.

Scripture notified me ManKind was Created out of the Earth...I didn’t require Science to Validate Gods Word.
Scripture already notified me an Earthly Man IS out of the Earth And reproduces it’s same Kind of Thing, With it’s Same earthly Elements in its reproductive Seed.

I am simply speaking about what the Bible says...simply and clearly. It only "hokey" to those with a mindset that cannot entertain a different concept.

I fully understand the complex yet clear knowledge IN Scripture.
I fully understand your reliance on your Mind for Understanding Scriptural Knowledge.
I fully understand Spiritual Understanding OF Gods Word Comes As A Gift From God.
* You are Correct...I do NOT entertain or Consider Mindful Understanding OF Scriptural Knowledge OVER Spiritual Understanding OF Scriptural Knowledge.
 

post

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.....thoroughly investigated every question that the scriptures raise

but can you answer even one of the simple & obvious ones i've drawn from Genesis 3 so far?
thus far: nope
but i have't asked the hard ones yet!

how is undeceived Adam ((1 Timothy 2)) a picture of Christ, per Romans 5:14?
how does Genesis 2:21 connect with Genesis 15:12 & John 17?
why did omniscient God ask 'where are you?' in Genesis 3:9?
who was listening?
had they ever understood God to be triune before Genesis 3:22?
would there be a tree of death in Eden if Satan had not fallen?
how did Adam know not to eat of the tree of life?
Genesis 3:17 implies an unrecorded conversation between Adam & his wife -- what did Woman say?

got any answers in your alleged 50 years?
how long did an average, mature pharisee beyond reproach 'study the Bible' ?
are any pharisees beyond reproach, ever?
was Zacchaeus a pharisee? did Nicodemus cease to be one?
why are the tallits blue?
 
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