Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

[Aunty Jane]

got any answers in your alleged 50 years?

Yes, but I'm not going down those rabbit holes with you.

1 Timothy 6:2-5...
"Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. 3 If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth".

What questions have you raised here that Christ ever taught?
This is nothing more than nit picking nonsense.....where did your answers come from? Jesus? I think not....

 

[Aunty Jane]

So Science has notified you the same elements of the Earth are elements that are in a human Earthly Body.

Scripture notified me ManKind was Created out of the Earth...I didn’t require Science to Validate Gods Word.
Scripture already notified me an Earthly Man IS out of the Earth And reproduces it’s same Kind of Thing, With it’s Same earthly Elements in its reproductive Seed.

I didn't require it either, but its nice to know that science backs up the Bible....we are fashioned from the elements of the earth because this was to be our permanent home...it is part of who we are. God never intended to take a single human to heaven, because originally, he didn't have to. Sin brought the need for a savior, so if Adam had not sinned, Jesus would never have come, because there would have been no debt to pay.

I fully understand the complex yet clear knowledge IN Scripture.
I fully understand your reliance on your Mind for Understanding Scriptural Knowledge.
I fully understand Spiritual Understanding OF Gods Word Comes As A Gift From God.
* You are Correct...I do NOT entertain or Consider Mindful Understanding OF Scriptural Knowledge OVER Spiritual Understanding OF Scriptural Knowledge.

That is your prerogative, of course but there is more than one spirit attempting to direct the human mind. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Jesus will be rejecting "many" who assume that they were directed by the right spirit....yet he will say that he "never knew" them....(Matthew 7:21-23)

It is good to explore the views of others.....it never hurts to consider them.

 

[post]

Yes, but I'm not going down those rabbit holes with you.

asking obvious questions about scripture when you read it & seeking out the answers to them - finding Christ testified of in what's written - this isn't 'a rabbit hole'

it's Bible study.

you have very wrong conclusions about Genesis 2-4.
if you are not interested in coming to the right conclusions, that's fine, but don't boast about how much you 'study the Bible' and how 'you know all the answers' if all you are going to do when faced with the questions is accuse me of evil and run away.

Romans 5:14 -- Adam is a picture of Christ.
how?

 

[post]

@Aunty Jane

i made a new thread, so we can have that conversation there ((link below))
if you want to go on using this thread to argue about words, instead.

Adam, a picture of Christ

 

[marks]

It appears that you are conflating the concept of a resurrection with life continuing after death when the 2 are far from one and the same. It seems that in scripture, the dead remain dead UNTIL they are raise BACK to life in a resurrection. While they are dead, they're actually NOT living.

It's like if your house is demolished, and you go live somewhere else.

And one day your house will be rebuilt with forever materials.

Much love!

 

[marksman]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life? The premise of this thread is a paradox as no one can claim the idea of MOST Christians as their argument. With approx 2.6 billion of them on planet earth, you have no idea how many believe this unless you have carried out the appropriate surveys.

 

[Saint of God]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?
You should be telling us why you believe
Death is not a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

I believe the Bible teaches Dualistic Conditional Immortality.

You may be interested in checking out my write up on this here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality

 

[Saint of God]

I believe the Bible teaches Dualistic Conditional Immortality.

You may be interested in checking out my write up on this here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality

You are funny. You believe in the trinity that is not mentioned in the bible and at the same time claim to believe in the bible alone...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are funny. You believe in the trinity that is not mentioned in the bible and at the same time claim to believe in the bible alone...

It’s not funny if you deny what the Bible says.
The word Godhead appears three times in the King James Bible. This means Trinity of which fits the context (the best).

1 John 5:7 (KJB) says,
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

For the Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

 

[Cassandra]

I believe the Bible teaches Dualistic Conditional Immortality.

You may be interested in checking out my write up on this here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality

I like the conditional immortality argument.
I realized one day while prayerfully studying that John 3:16 says the same.We quote it all the time. Everyone knows this verse. I never realized what it said, that those who believe have everlasting life. This is the gift---everlasting life for belief.
Those who do not believe are not given everlasting life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I like the conditional immortality argument.
I realized one day while prayerfully studying that John 3:16 says the same.We quote it all the time. Everyone knows this verse. I never realized what it said, that those who believe have everlasting life. This is the gift---everlasting life for belief.
Those who do not believe are not given everlasting life.

Indeed. I agree. It’s like a veil is over their eyes when they read this verse (if they believe in Eternal Torment). I used to believe in Eternal Torment, but after close examination of the Scriptures, I eventually came out from this unbiblical and immoral belief. Certain beliefs in the church today are immoral. They think Abraham lied to Pharaoh (When he didn’t lie). They think God told Hosea to marry a prostitute (When God did not tell Hosea to do that). Many in the church today believe they can sin and still be saved all because they have a belief alone on Jesus as their Savior (even though both Jesus and His followers warned against how sin can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake such sins).

 

[Cassandra]

Indeed. I agree. It’s like a veil is over their eyes when they read this verse (if they believe in Eternal Torment). I used to believe in Eternal Torment, but after close examination of the Scriptures, I eventually came out from this unbiblical and immoral belief. Certain beliefs in the church today are immoral. They think Abraham lied to Pharaoh (When he didn’t lie). They think God told Hosea to marry a prostitute (When God did not tell Hosea to do that). Many in the church today believe they can sin and still be saved all because they have a belief alone on Jesus as their Savior (even though both Jesus and His followers warned against how sin can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake such sins).

I don't know about your examples(that is a different subject), but I do believe that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). It is not perpetual dying. We all die first death, but for there to be a second death, it must mean cessation, or it's not death at all.. God alone is immortal( 1Tim 6:16), but He will give us eternal life if we believe. That is the hope of a resurrection of the just.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't know about your examples(that is a different subject), but I do believe that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). It is not perpetual dying. We all die first death, but for there to be a second death, it must mean cessation, or it's not death at all.. God alone is immortal( 1Tim 6:16), but He will give us eternal life if we believe. That is the hope of a resurrection of the just.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words

I believe that believing in Jesus is more than just a belief (although it includes a belief). It is believing everything Jesus taught and said. Jesus said, why do you call me, Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? (Luke 6:46). But yes. I agree that eternal life means eternal life, and the second death means death. But many Christians allegorize these words in Scripture to defend Eternal Torment.

 

[Cassandra]

I believe that believing in Jesus is more than just a belief (although it includes a belief). It is believing everything Jesus taught and said. Jesus said, why do you call me, Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? (Luke 6:46).

Oh, of course!!

We have to be justified by faith, and then sanctified by His Word, not ours. “Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth” John 17:17

and

James 1:22-25

"22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed."

 

[Saint of God]

It’s not funny if you deny what the Bible says.
The word Godhead appears three times in the King James Bible. This means Trinity of which fits the context (the best).

Not one translation say, Godhead means trinity...You are a shameless liar.

1 John 5:7 (KJB) says,
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

Johannine Comma You should look it up.

For the Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

The bible teaches that one God is the father...
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Bible does not teach Distinct Gods, you teach that.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.

And so whar? So is the word you.

#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).

That is an assumption. This passage tells us God was speaking to his son. not to himself...
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).

Rubbish To us there is but on God, the father. Incidentally God the father is also Jesus' God...
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)

Nothing here says the son of man is God...it says he was brought to God (the ancient of days)

#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)

But nothing hers says Jesus is God...
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).

This is your silliest argument yet...Why would God be praying to God while an angel comes to strengthen God..

#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

nothing in those passages say that the son is God...You have exposed your misunderstanding of the scripture.

 

[Skovand1075]

So I noticed the OP is agnostic, not an atheist and that they were fairly active for a few years but they’ve not been active for the last few months.

are they still lurking about or have they moved on? Wanted to discuss it a bit but only if they wer actually here. If not , I can just make my own thread down the line about a overlapping topic.

 

[quietthinker]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?
All Pagan nations/philosophies have adopted the view of inherent immortality so when most Christians adopt it, it becomes clear whose words they prefer to believe ....either God's, 'you shall surely die' or the serpent's 'you shall not surely die'.
These pronouncements are akin to chalk and cheese.....there is no ambiguity.

 

[post]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?
All Pagan nations/philosophies have adopted the view of inherent immortality so when most Christians adopt it, it becomes clear whose words they prefer to believe ....either God's, 'you shall surely die' or the serpent's 'you shall not surely die'.
These pronouncements are akin to chalk and cheese.....there is no ambiguity.

He said to them,
“Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.”
And they ridiculed Him.
(Matthew 9:24)
​

why doesn't Christ speak of her as though she has ceased to exist?

​

 

[quietthinker]

He said to them,
“Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.”
And they ridiculed Him.
(Matthew 9:24)
​

why doesn't Christ speak of her as though she has ceased to exist?

​

The first death which we all die is called a sleep, not because there is consciousness elsewhere but because from it is a resurrection for both good and bad.
The second death has no resurrection.

God's words 'you will surely die' stand.