Should Christians Always Be Healed?

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Eternally Grateful

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I'm not sure who she is, but I do believe in miracles. Just because it doesn't happen in every situation, doesn't mean it isn't God's will for healing to happen.

With diving there are risks... Diving would be the cause of the paraplegia... Not God...
I believe in miracles too. I believe its Gods will to heal many people. It at the same time, its his will not to heal people for specific reasons.

Look her up. She spoke at my church a few years ago. She has written many books and is a speaker. God has used her in many ways. Its amazing.
 
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Mayflower

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I believe in miracles too. I believe its Gods will to heal many people. It at the same time, its his will not to heal people for specific reasons.

Look her up. She spoke at my church a few years ago. She has written many books and is a speaker. God has used her in many ways. Its amazing.

I have to somewhat disagree because of specific reason. :) I'd say things happen, but hurt/sickness never was God's will to begin with. In the end all true believers will be healed. So in the end we agree. :)
 

Eternally Grateful

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I have to somewhat disagree because of specific reason. :) I'd say it happens, but it never was God's will to begin with. But in the end all true believers will be healed. So in the end we agree. :)
I agree it was not Gods will she got Hurt. And suffered so.

But I see it as all things work together for the good.

God can take any situation and use it for his will.
 

MatthewG

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I wonder also, Joni Erickson tada was juried in a diving accident, is her lifetime of being a paraplegic gods punishment? Its not like she got drunk got behind the wheel and crashed breaking her neck, and that was the result of her infirmary because of her sin.

Terrible…

I think people can get to caught up in the healing aspect of life in the psychical aspects…

It’s constant on Facebook… pray for my head to stop hurting, pray for my son he is sick, pray…

I understand that because of the state of living in the fallen world we are meant to die… I’m not so sure if people like to think about that at all very much. I have stated it to my mother several times in just a reminder…

“I know Matthew everyone knows that”

I believe that people try to get far away from the reality of it though in my opinion. Though the sickness there are doctors and rehabs to help people try to get better from use antibiotics, and rehabilitation on the legs and what not.

Ive seen a man with both of us legs cut off and he didn’t have actual metal ones to wear… he was a nice person very friendly talked to me about his horses and how owned a horse farm, from a child.

Look… my thoughts are simple. If your sick get something for your sickness…

Imagine a situation like this… say someone has not used the bathroom in three days, and has not had a bowel movement.

They say I trust you God… you’ll help me get through this then they die… @Hidden In Him what was the case to do here?

healings I get it… the great healing is that of the heart…

This material stuff and this body is going to die and you can take measures to keep yourself healthy and eat well and keep yourselves to be able to live as long as possible.

The only abundant life there is is trusting God… nothing else.
That abundant life is by the spirit… building up spiritual treasure in heaven for your new spiritual resurrection when you die and leave this earth….

I don’t wanna come back here…

The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
 

Mayflower

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I have to somewhat disagree because of specific reason. :) I'd say things happen, but hurt/sickness never was God's will to begin with. In the end all true believers will be healed. So in the end we agree. :)

I edited a little but it means the same. I wasn't sure if that line made much sense.
 
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Hidden In Him

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If God brings judgement, that would be different. But how often is it God bringing judgement like in Ananias and Sapphira rather then something of our own doing like overeating.
I wonder also, Joni Erickson tada was juried in a diving accident, is her lifetime of being a paraplegic gods punishment?

It's an interesting question, because not all His judgments are as direct and unmistakable today as they were during New Testament times. But I believe there is the following element at work: To whom much has been given, much will be expected. God holds others accountable for the things they experience and are shown. In New Testament times they witnessed His power at work, and His Spirit being poured out in abundant measure, with the apostles doing many mighty works. At such times I believe men are held even more accountable, and those times will come again, and are here even now for those who walk in greater responsibilities towards God.

But so you can see it from scripture, I will quote some of the primary passages from the New Testament. I have already included the last and the first, but I will quote them again for reference sake.

27 whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come. (1 Corinthians 12:27-34)

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write... I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:18-23)

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)


1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. 7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?” She said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things. (Acts 5:1-11)

 
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Mayflower

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Terrible…

I think people can get to caught up in the healing aspect of life in the psychical aspects…

It’s constant on Facebook… pray for my head to stop hurting, pray for my son he is sick, pray…

I understand that because of the state of living in the fallen world we are meant to die… I’m not so sure if people like to think about that at all very much. I have stated it to my mother several times in just a reminder…

“I know Matthew everyone knows that”

I believe that people try to get far away from the reality of it though in my opinion. Though the sickness there are doctors and rehabs to help people try to get better from use antibiotics, and rehabilitation on the legs and what not.

Ive seen a man with both of us legs cut off and he didn’t have actual metal ones to wear… he was a nice person very friendly talked to me about his horses and how owned a horse farm, from a child.

Look… my thoughts are simple. If your sick get something for your sickness…

Imagine a situation like this… say someone has not used the bathroom in three days, and has not had a bowel movement.

They say I trust you God… you’ll help me get through this then they die… @Hidden In Him what was the case to do here?

healings I get it… the great healing is that of the heart…

This material stuff and this body is going to die and you can take measures to keep yourself healthy and eat well and keep yourselves to be able to live as long as possible.

The only abundant life there is is trusting God… nothing else.
That abundant life is by the spirit… building up spiritual treasure in heaven for your new spiritual resurrection when you die and leave this earth….

I don’t wanna come back here…

The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I spoke with my pastor before on the dangers of the Word of Faith movement. He told me about how a lot of people in the Word of Faith movement were not careful in the past. They would, for example, stop taking their insulin before healing manifested and would die as a result. Or they would break their glasses before their eyes got healed. People need to be safe. People need to take medicine, I believe. But I pray for complete healing also. It may not always happen, but I believe it can happen and it has many times.
 

MatthewG

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I spoke with my pastor before on the dangers of the Word of Faith movement. He told me about how a lot of people in the Word of Faith movement were not careful in the past. They would, for example, stop taking their insulin before healing manifested and would die as a result. Or they would break their glasses before their eyes got healed. People need to be safe. People need to take medicine, I believe. But I pray for complete healing also. It may not always happen, but I believe it can happen and it has many times.

I do not knock you down for believing so.

The Bible talks about how we are to pray for other people, encouragement to them, and to be wise…

To me the Bible is one way for us to be renewed in our mind and heart… praying constantly always to God and having faith and love for others.

I’m not saying God cant help the doctor by the holy spirit with the person who needs cancer removed… so you understand my position.

Today there was a woman who told me she is angry with God right now because her son is dying from some stage four cancer or something another…

And if she was open and honest enough to tell me that I rather her be angry at God for it. She will come around to him again, possibly. Whether her son lives or dies, I hope the best for him and her… if we talk again and she is open to talk about the subject…

If her son has passed, he has been resurrected… but maybe the doctors can do something…

I don’t know.

I live my life in complete freedom for people to believe, and think how they will and want to… God is the one whom is the one who is a giver of good gifts, and as @Eternally Grateful mentioned some situations are placed and are to be learned from… not to say God caused it either… God desired for us to live forever with him…
 

Hidden In Him

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I spoke with my pastor before on the dangers of the Word of Faith movement. He told me about how a lot of people in the Word of Faith movement were not careful in the past. They would, for example, stop taking their insulin before healing manifested and would die as a result. Or they would break their glasses before their eyes got healed. People need to be safe. People need to take medicine, I believe.

Yes. I'm up through the 20th minute, where I'm on hold because I have other things I'd like to discuss if we can get there. But he seems fairly balanced in his presentation of the Faith message. As it goes, his version is relatively solid.

I do think I've progressed past him, however, so please take what I say under consideration. I may not always seem like it, but I'm actually smarter than the average bear : )

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Mayflower

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It's an interesting question, because not all His judgments are as direct and unmistakable today as they were during New Testament times. But I believe there is the following element at work: To whom much has been given, much will be expected. God holds others accountable for the things they experience and are shown. In New Testament times they witnessed His power at work, and His Spirit being poured out in abundant measure, with the apostles doing many mighty works. At such times I believe men are held even more accountable, and those times will come again, and are here even now for those who walk in greater responsibilities towards God.

But so you can see it from scripture, I will quote some of the primary passages from the New Testament. I have already included the last and the first, but I will quote them again for reference sake.

27 whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come. (1 Corinthians 12:27-34)

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write... I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:18-23)

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)


1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. 7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?” She said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things. (Acts 5:1-11)


Are there any specific things you want brought out from these passages?
 

Hidden In Him

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Are there any specific things you want brought out from these passages?


Nothing really, other than that it can't be argued they were unbelievers. In the case of Jezebel yes, because it is clear from what she was teaching that she was a Gnostic, and they were "Christians" in name only but heretics to the core in reality.

As for the rest, not so much. It's patently obvious that 1st Corinthians 11 was written to the church there, i.e. believers, some of whom were walking in sin. Likewise, with the man in sin in 1st Corinthians 5. This is the same man who repents and whom Paul urges should be let back into the fellowship in his 2nd letter. So the sense there is that he was a true believer who got excommunicated, but was then reinstated after repenting. Ananias and Saphira is anyone's guess, but my personal belief is that they were saved, but did not walk in the fear of God, and it is clear from the passage that this is something the Lord wanted to be instilled in His people, and accomplished it by the act of discipline upon two people who were lying to the Holy Spirit before all. The point was that such things would not be gotten away with before the God who sees all things, even the intents of men's hearts.
 
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Mayflower

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Nothing really, other than that it can't be argued they were unbelievers. In the case of Jezebel yes, because it is clear from what she was teaching that she was a Gnostic, and they were "Christians" in name only but heretics to the core in reality.

As for the rest, not so much. It's patently obvious that 1st Corinthians 11 was written to the church there, i.e. believers, some of whom were walking in sin. Likewise, with the man in sin in 1st Corinthians 5. This is the same man who repents and whom Paul urges should be let back into the fellowship in his 2nd letter. So the sense there is that he was a true believer who got excommunicated, but was then reinstated after repenting. Ananias and Saphira is anyone's guess, but my personal belief is that they were saved, but did not walk in the fear of God, and it is clear from the passage that this is something the Lord wanted to be instilled in His people, and accomplished it by the act of discipline upon two people who were lying to the Holy Spirit before all. The point was that such things would not be gotten away with before the God who sees all things, even the intents of men's hearts.

As far as God wanting them to die though, I wouldn't think so. I don't like to discipline my kids, but I do.
 
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MatthewG

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Nothing really, other than that it can't be argued they were unbelievers. In the case of Jezebel yes, because it is clear from what she was teaching that she was a Gnostic, and they were "Christians" in name only but heretics to the core in reality.

As for the rest, not so much. It's patently obvious that 1st Corinthians 11 was written to the church there, i.e. believers, some of whom were walking in sin. Likewise, with the man in sin in 1st Corinthians 5. This is the same man who repents and whom Paul urges should be let back into the fellowship in his 2nd letter. So the sense there is that he was a true believer who got excommunicated, but was then reinstated after repenting. Ananias and Saphira is anyone's guess, but my personal belief is that they were saved, but did not walk in the fear of God, and it is clear from the passage that this is something the Lord wanted to be instilled in His people, and accomplished it by the act of discipline upon two people who were lying to the Holy Spirit before all. The point was that such things would not be gotten away with before the God who sees all things, even the intents of men's hearts.

Hello sir,

Thank you for sharing your useful insights.
Do you have any thoughts about the entire chapter of Galatians Chapter 5? Paul’s writes some interesting things about the flesh and the spirit. Which could be insightful to your sharing of Anna’s and Sappari.
 
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Hidden In Him

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As far as God wanting them to die though, I wouldn't think so. I don't like to discipline my kids, but I do.

No one likes to discipline others, and no one likes to be disciplined. This is what is meant by the following:

5 You have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives.” 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12)

Because it is painful to us, you can rest assured it is painful to our Father. I get the same feeling with some of the people I have to deal with firmly on the forums. It's an ugly scene sometimes. But it is meant for good, and necessary.
 
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Hidden In Him

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As far as God wanting them to die though, I wouldn't think so. I don't like to discipline my kids, but I do.


And you are to be commended for this, btw. There are a lot of mothers who do NOT discipline their kids, and they do so to their harm, not to their good.
 
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MatthewG

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You too, @Mayflower gotta go to work soon. Been a little while since active here, thank you for sharing your insights with me and hope you and your children rest well. Take care, and thank you for the prayers sister.

God bless all of you, take care see you again! Hopefully either here or in heaven.
 

Hidden In Him

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Hello sir,

Thank you for sharing your useful insights.
Do you have any thoughts about the entire chapter of Galatians Chapter 5? Paul’s writes some interesting things about the flesh and the spirit. Which could be insightful to your sharing of Anna’s and Sappari.


If you mean this, Matthew, then yes:

3 I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law... 7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.

You see, the Lord was not always waiting until the sweet bye and bye to execute judgment during New Testament times. For instance, when Paul said:

11 No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. (1 Corinthians 4:11-17)

The last line about warning that that God would destroy those who defiled His temple indirectly relates to the passage in 1 Corinthians 11, where he informed them that many were sick and many were now "sleeping" (dead). Ultimately all will be judged in the hereafter for their works, but these people were effecting the building of the church in the there and then. And building upon its foundation with spiritual corruption, through false teachings and setting bad examples through sinful conduct, was paramount to building with bad material; material that would be "burned up," either in the here and now or in the hereafter.
 
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MatthewG

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No sir, I was asking about Galatians chapter 5. What your thoughts on it as a whole was on comparing to Anna and Sapari?