Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[PinSeeker]

My post above is sufficient, but I'm going to respond to this:

You said "Paul is not speaking of himself, nor of any saint in Christ Jesus, even as he was not calling himself the chiefest of sinners." I'm just going to quote him here (from 1 Timothy 1:12-15), with a couple of interjections:

"I thank Him Who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because He judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent."​

This is obviously in the past tense. He obviously is no more a blasphemer, persecutor, or insolent opponent of Christ. Now. Continued:

"But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus."​

Paul is still speaking in the past tense here, but his use of the word 'but' obviously indicates a wholescale shift from his former modus operandi because of something that happened to him. The grace of the Lord overflowed him with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. So in light of that fact, he is able to say with certainty the following, which is quite obviously in the present tense (though because of something that had already happened):

"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."​

Paul says not "I was," but rather "I am the foremost of sinners." And in saying so, he is stating that he is no better in any way than anybody else in and of himself ~ and even acknowledging himself to be far less deserving of God's grace than they are ~ even presently. So what you said about Paul not speaking of himself or any other believer is patently false.

Aside from that, again, what I said above is true: You are directly opposed to and refuting, either unwittingly or knowingly, those passages in God's inerrant and infallible Word that I quoted (and others). Quite frankly, you have a very pharasaical take on things, or at least the subject at hand.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[robert derrick]

I'll just say this, in follow up of a previous post of mine. Obedience is not to be discounted in any way, shape, or form. But obedience, though it cannot be perfect of anyone in this life because we still, even though desiring not to do so, sin, at least from time to time. But we are being sanctified (being made holy) by the working of the Spirit in us, and thus improving in our obedience. But our obedience is not to be relied on to "keep our salvation." The person who believes that a person can somehow lose his or her salvation after having received it is directly opposed to and refuting, either unwittingly or knowingly, the following passages in God's inerrant and infallible Word:

"For those whom He foreloved He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified... Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the One Who died ~ more than that, Who was raised ~ Who is at the right hand of God, Who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?... No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him Who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
[Paul, Romans 8:29-39]​

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
[Paul, Romans 11:29]​

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth."
[Paul, Ephesians 1:3-10]​

"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
[Paul, Philippians 1:6]​

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
[Peter, 1 Peter 1:3-5]​

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is."
[John, 1 John 3:1-2)]​

And I'll add one, from Jesus Himself:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
[John 6:37-40]​

Grace and peace to all.

Even though desiring not to do so, sin, at least from time to time.

I.e. "No! I won't stop that! I'm committed to sin...at least from time to time...and that's all there is to it!! And here once again are all the Scriptures that say I can and keep me covered while I do so!!!"

According to your faith be it unto you.

The faith of Jesus says otherwise:

But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[PinSeeker]

"No! I won't stop that! I'm committed to sin, at least from time to time, and that's all there is to it!!"

That a redeemed sinners would possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart. But that seems to be you're M.O., unfortunatedly.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

That a redeemed sinners would possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart. But that seems to be you're M.O., unfortunatedly.

Grace and peace to you.

shall we continue to sin that grace may abound . GOD FOBID , HEY CHURCH , dont ya know to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey
HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YE OBEY . GOTTA SAY IT LIKE PAUL DID TO GET THEIR ATTENTION .
But today they walk in sin and yet make the claim all is well we have JESUS . TO WHOM YE YEILD yourselves
servants to obey IS WHO YA HAVE and WHOSE YOU ARE . whether of sin unto death or OBEDIANCE unto RIGHTEOUSNESS .

 

[robert derrick]

Even though desiring not to do so, sin, at least from time to time.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, from time to time, being condemned of himself.

The subversion of OSAS is to continue in sin from time to time and to openly declare their own condemnation:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There is now no condemnation for them freed from the law of sin and death in the mind and in the body now, today, yesterday, and forever.

OSAS is part-time Christianity at best, and full time hypocrisy at worst, except they repent of remaining committed to their 'time to time' sins.

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him in all things, today, and so do not submit themselves to sin, today:

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Eternal salvation is for them that obey today, and do not allow their hearts and minds to dwell on the necessary sins of tomorrow, which always therefore become from time to time today.

I can honestly say that beholding the astounding things said in defense of OSAS, and by refuting it at every hand with sound doctrine of Christ, I have become ever more committed in the fear of the Lord to always do what I know to do, and to always reject doing what I know not to do, today.

I truly do not want to have anything to do with thinking otherwise, because I see the incredible lengths to which people will go to maintain double mindedness in the faith, and how they childishly wrap themselves up in their prescribed Scripture to justify it, which is taught by an unconditional grace that is no help in time of need to endure temptation and overcome sin today, but rather believes in a 'God' who is blind to sins from time to time, which will surely become today.

 

[PinSeeker]

The subversion of OSAS is to continue in sin from time to time and to openly declare their own condemnation...

A "OSAS" (whatever the heck that is), does not refute in any way Romans 8:1, but accepts that as one of the great promises of God (given through Paul).

There is now no condemnation for them freed from the law of sin and death in the mind and in the body now, today, yesterday, and forever.

Absolutely true. All glory and thanks be to our great God for making this a reality now and a certainty in the future. But that there is no longer any condemnation for sin does not say or imply in any way that, in this life, we no longer sin. To think that is wholly antithetical to Scripture, and, again, John makes it clear that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

OSAS is part-time Christianity at best, and full time hypocrisy at worst, except they repent of remaining committed to their 'time to time' sins.

Utterly ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him in all things,

Eternal salvation is for those who receive, despite their undeservedness, God's mercy and compassion. Obedience, and living for the Lord, though imperfect in this life, inevitably follows for those who have received such. Salvation depends on the Lord, who has mercy and compassion on those whom He will have mercy and compassion. It does not depend on him (or her) and his own will or strength (Romans 9:14-16).

today, and so do not submit themselves to sin, today...

Well, for them that desire these things but still ~ though they don't want to ~ fall short of God's glory.

Eternal salvation is for them that obey today, and do not allow their hearts and minds to dwell on the necessary sins of tomorrow...

Eternal salvation is for them them who have received God's mercy and compassion. Obedience ~ though not perfect ~ and redirecting their minds to whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, and true excellence, and what is worthy of praise (Paul, Philippians 4:8) ~ also not perfect in this life ~ inevitably follows, because of the work of the Spirit in our hearts.

I can honestly say that beholding the astounding things said in defense of OSAS...

The "beholding" is the problem. You continue to twist it into something very different than what it is.

...and by refuting it at every hand with sound doctrine of Christ...

You have refuted nothing except a caricature of what those who know God's calling is irrevocable (Romans 11) actually say.

I have become ever more committed in the fear of the Lord...

As if "OSAS" (again, whatever that is) are not; and here you mischaracterize the fear of the Lord, really...

... to always do what I know to do, and to always reject doing what I know not to do, today.

Yet again, if we say we have no sin ~ if we say we do all these things perfectly now ~ we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And if we rely on ourselves to maintain our salvation, we will surely be disappointed... or at least realize how deluded we once were when we are glorified.

I truly do not want to have anything to do with thinking otherwise, because I see the incredible lengths to which people will go to maintain double mindedness in the faith, and how they childishly wrap themselves up in their prescribed Scripture to justify it...

No "OSAS" (again, whatever the heck that is) is double minded. Only the one who doubts is double minded, as James says, and he is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind (James 1:8). But James writes his letter to believers, so yes, even we as believers can possibly be double minded... if we doubt God's faithfulness even in our trials and tribulations, which is exactly what James is talking about in James 1. So James's exhortation to us as believers is, "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded" (James 4:8).

...which is taught by an unconditional grace that is no help in time of need to endure temptation and overcome sin today...

The 'U' in the "tulip" acronym is regarding salvation, which is the result of grace unconditional of any work of man to somehow merit, or deserve, God's salvific grace. If it is understood otherwise (as you do), it makes God's grace ~ unmerited favor ~ out to be something it is most assuredly not, and even the opposite (merited favor) of what it is. And what is true help in times of temptation (which, unfortunately, is at all times in this life) is the absolute surety we have in Christ Jesus that we will finally be free of all sin when we enter into glory. This certainly does not absolve us of the responsibility we have now to avoid sin, but we can retain our joy in Christ and praise the living God in spite of our failures in this life to do so.

...but rather believes in a 'God' who is blind to sins from time to time, which will surely become today.

God is never "blind to sins," but is forgiving of them, thanks be to God, because our sins are nailed to the cross in Christ Jesus, and we are covered by His precious blood, redeemed by Christ in part now but in full in His day, His return.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[robert derrick]

A "OSAS" (whatever the heck that is), does not refute in any way Romans 8:1, but accepts that as one of the great promises of God (given through Paul).


Absolutely true. All glory and thanks be to our great God for making this a reality now and a certainty in the future. But that there is no longer any condemnation for sin does not say or imply in any way that, in this life, we no longer sin. To think that is wholly antithetical to Scripture, and, again, John makes it clear that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


Utterly ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.


Eternal salvation is for those who receive, despite their undeservedness, God's mercy and compassion. Obedience, and living for the Lord, though imperfect in this life, inevitably follows for those who have received such. Salvation depends on the Lord, who has mercy and compassion on those whom He will have mercy and compassion. It does not depend on him (or her) and his own will or strength (Romans 9:14-16).


Well, for them that desire these things but still ~ though they don't want to ~ fall short of God's glory.


Eternal salvation is for them them who have received God's mercy and compassion. Obedience ~ though not perfect ~ and redirecting their minds to whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, and true excellence, and what is worthy of praise (Paul, Philippians 4:8) ~ also not perfect in this life ~ inevitably follows, because of the work of the Spirit in our hearts.


The "beholding" is the problem. You continue to twist it into something very different than what it is.


You have refuted nothing except a caricature of what those who know God's calling is irrevocable (Romans 11) actually say.


As if "OSAS" (again, whatever that is) are not; and here you mischaracterize the fear of the Lord, really...


Yet again, if we say we have no sin ~ if we say we do all these things perfectly now ~ we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And if we rely on ourselves to maintain our salvation, we will surely be disappointed... or at least realize how deluded we once were when we are glorified.


No "OSAS" (again, whatever the heck that is) is double minded. Only the one who doubts is double minded, as James says, and he is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind (James 1:8). But James writes his letter to believers, so yes, even we as believers can possibly be double minded... if we doubt God's faithfulness even in our trials and tribulations, which is exactly what James is talking about in James 1. So James's exhortation to us as believers is, "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded" (James 4:8).


The 'U' in the "tulip" acronym is regarding salvation, which is the result of grace unconditional of any work of man to somehow merit, or deserve, God's salvific grace. If it is understood otherwise (as you do), it makes God's grace ~ unmerited favor ~ out to be something it is most assuredly not, and even the opposite (merited favor) of what it is. And what is true help in times of temptation (which, unfortunately, is at all times in this life) is the absolute surety we have in Christ Jesus that we will finally be free of all sin when we enter into glory. This certainly does not absolve us of the responsibility we have now to avoid sin, but we can retain our joy in Christ and praise the living God in spite of our failures in this life to do so.


God is never "blind to sins," but is forgiving of them, thanks be to God, because our sins are nailed to the cross in Christ Jesus, and we are covered by His precious blood, redeemed by Christ in part now but in full in His day, His return.

Grace and peace to all.

Once again, you try to distance yourself from OSAS, and yet you appear to teach the same things and live accordingly.

I have given you their teachings, that I have quoted from them, yet you have not denied them.

So, I will try one last time specifically, which is at the very heart of OSAS:

Are you forgiven all your sins past, present, and future in the day in which you first believe Jesus is the Christ.

Can Christians commit the sin of blaspheming the Holy Ghost? Can they speak against the Holy Ghost?

 

[robert derrick]

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

The grace of God is for help in time of need to overcome temptation and not to sin.

OSAS blind grace teaches help in time of need to not be judged for their sins from time to time, because they can't help it but to do so.

Sinners sinning from time to time are not saved by the grace of God, but are blinded by the grace to sin in time of need.

Temptation to OSAS is not an invitation of the devil to disobey God, but rather is just another occasion for the flesh to enjoy sin from time to time.

 

[robert derrick]

That a redeemed sinners would possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart. But that seems to be you're M.O., unfortunatedly.

Grace and peace to you.

That a redeemed sinner

OSAS is the salvation for sinners not found in Scripture. No Scripture ever speaks of saved and redeemed sinners.

The only saved and redeemed people of God found in Scripture are elect saints.

The only sinners spoken of in Scripture are the ungodly:

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Redeemed and saved 'sinners' is a figment of the vain imagination of carnally minded man, seeking to be saved in their sins, not to be saved from their sins: today.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Obey Him today.

Them looking for salvation from all their sins tomorrow will never see it, because tomorrow never comes, not in this life and so not in the world to come.

 

[robert derrick]

That a redeemed sinners would possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart. But that seems to be you're M.O., unfortunatedly.

Grace and peace to you.

My post above is sufficient, but I'm going to respond to this:

You said "Paul is not speaking of himself, nor of any saint in Christ Jesus, even as he was not calling himself the chiefest of sinners." I'm just going to quote him here (from 1 Timothy 1:12-15), with a couple of interjections:

"I thank Him Who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because He judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent."​

This is obviously in the past tense. He obviously is no more a blasphemer, persecutor, or insolent opponent of Christ. Now. Continued:

"But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus."​

Paul is still speaking in the past tense here, but his use of the word 'but' obviously indicates a wholescale shift from his former modus operandi because of something that happened to him. The grace of the Lord overflowed him with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. So in light of that fact, he is able to say with certainty the following, which is quite obviously in the present tense (though because of something that had already happened):

"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."​

Paul says not "I was," but rather "I am the foremost of sinners." And in saying so, he is stating that he is no better in any way than anybody else in and of himself ~ and even acknowledging himself to be far less deserving of God's grace than they are ~ even presently. So what you said about Paul not speaking of himself or any other believer is patently false.

Aside from that, again, what I said above is true: You are directly opposed to and refuting, either unwittingly or knowingly, those passages in God's inerrant and infallible Word that I quoted (and others). Quite frankly, you have a very pharasaical take on things, or at least the subject at hand.

Grace and peace to you.

"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."

Paul says not "I was," but rather "I am the foremost of sinners."

Foremost and chief is Scripture.

Of sinners is not, being an OSAS addition to Scripture for sake of sinning from time to time.

If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

You add sins from time to time to your own salvation, and so add words to Scripture to justify them.

And so you willingly continue in the plagued and wretched state of the double minded, which is made for you celebratory by blind grace.

 

[atpollard]

If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. [Revelation 22:18-19 KJV]​

Beware partial verses, plucked from their context by men to make a point never intended by the original Author.

 

[atpollard]

Eternal salvation is for them that obey today, and do not allow their hearts and minds to dwell on the necessary sins of tomorrow, which always therefore become from time to time today.

I can honestly say that beholding the astounding things said in defense of OSAS, and by refuting it at every hand with sound doctrine of Christ, I have become ever more committed in the fear of the Lord to always do what I know to do, and to always reject doing what I know not to do, today.

I truly do not want to have anything to do with thinking otherwise, because I see the incredible lengths to which people will go to maintain double mindedness in the faith, and how they childishly wrap themselves up in their prescribed Scripture to justify it, which is taught by an unconditional grace that is no help in time of need to endure temptation and overcome sin today, but rather believes in a 'God' who is blind to sins from time to time, which will surely become today.

As stated in the title, those that HATE the Doctrines of Grace (Grace-Haters) “are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.”

The above mischaracterization of “Eternal salvation for them” is not a correct understanding of the (P) of T U L I P.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[robert derrick]

That a redeemed sinners would possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart. But that seems to be you're M.O., unfortunatedly.

Grace and peace to you.

"No! I won't stop that! I'm committed to sin, at least from time to time, and that's all there is to it!!"

That a redeemed sinner possibly say or even think that is an utterly ridiculous supposition, directly opposite of what Scripture is very clear is going on within the saved person because of the changed state of his heart.

It is not possible to redeemed saints, but is the very heart of 'redeemed' sinners.

But that there is no longer any condemnation for sin does not say or imply in any way that, in this life, we no longer sin. To think that is wholly antithetical to Scripture.

Redeemed sinners certainly do sin from time to time willingly, knowingly, and expectantly.

To no longer sin in spirit is perfection. To continue in sins of the flesh is unrighteousness, ungoldliness, disobedience, and open rebellion to God.

There are no good, justifiable, unseen, nor covered and forgiven sins of the flesh, committed in the deeds of the body.

OSAS compares not continuing in sins of the flesh with perfection of mind and body in the resurrection of the church, so that they can justify their continued sins of the flesh from time to time, as being inevitable in this life and already forgiven in the past.

Predestination of OSAS is predestined sins preforgiven of God.

They like to think their hearts are good and hate sin in the mind only, while continuing in open sins of the flesh that put Christ to an open shame before the unbelievers.

I.e. they think really good of themselves, while living really the same as the world, and fall all over themselves to acknowledge and proclaim it loudly. And humbly, of course.

Hypocrisy 101.

And any suggestion of not continuing in sins of the flesh in this life, is treated as heresy and antithetical to Scripture.

Living unblameably by rejecting all sins of the flesh and lusts of the world, to go and do them no more in this life, is anathema to OSAS doctrine that is wrenched out of Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

As stated in the title, those that HATE the Doctrines of Grace (Grace-Haters) “are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.”

The above mischaracterization of “Eternal salvation for them” is not a correct understanding of the (P) of T U L I P.

Thank you for proving my point.

The only doctrine of grace in Scripture is to teach us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

And is for them seeking grace to help in time of need to overcome temptation and sin not.

Other doctrines of grace are false, such as 'unconditional and sovereign' grace that blinds God to their continued sins of the flesh in open defeat of the enemy.

admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

Since you provide no correction to what I say it means by the teaching of your own people, then it stands as given.

No one has made any correction of the 'doctrines of grace' I have read in this site:

1. Salvation is unconditionally and eternally secured when one first believes Jesus is the Christ.
2. They have no responsible part to play and do in their salvation, in order to obtain it in the end.
3. God does not see their sins of the mind and of the body, because of the blood.
4. Their sins past, present, and future are already forgiven beforehand the day they believe Jesus is the Christ and are saved by grace.
5. Those saved by grace are saved and redeemed sinners.
6. Those saved by grace will continue in sins of the flesh from time to time by the deeds of the body.
7. No longer continuing in sins of the flesh committed by the body is unattainable perfectionism in this life: not sinning openly today is not possible.
8. Those who do teach not continuing in open sins of the flesh are judged as proud and self-righteous, and teach what is antithetical to Scripture.

There are more, but these will suffice for now. I have stated them as plainly as I have gotten them from this site. So, if you would like to correct any of them in any part, please do so, and I will change it to comply with your own teaching, when replying to you.

Until then, I see no Tulips in Scripture, much less in the kingdom of God.

I'll stick with the Rose of Sharon.

And yes, any 'doctrine of grace' that teaches any of the things above, I do hate for the lie of the devil that it is, because they are all antithetical to the doctrine of grace of Christ that teaches us plainly to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

 

[robert derrick]

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.

Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.

Celebrating unconditionally blind grace for sinners is a violent melody in the ears of God, and a stench in His nostrils.

But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

We will sin from time to time hardly qualifies for judgment and righteousness flowing freely.

 

[robert derrick]

Beware partial verses, plucked from their context by men to make a point never intended by the original Author.

Paul says not "I was," but rather "I am the foremost of sinners."

So you agree this is not adding to Scripture, or you just agree with the addition?

Your effort to reprove the use of Scripture to reprove the addition to Scripture is a sideshow.

But to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus would say:

"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."

Paul says not "I was," but rather "I am the foremost of sinners."

Foremost and chief is Scripture: Of sinners is not.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

And so with full context of Scripture, we continue:

You add sins from time to time to your own salvation, and so add words to Scripture to justify them.

And so you willingly continue in the plagued and wretched state of the double minded, which is made for you celebratory by blind grace.

 

[TEXBOW]

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.

Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.

Celebrating unconditionally blind grace for sinners is a violent melody in the ears of God, and a stench in His nostrils.

But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

We will sin from time to time hardly qualifies for judgment and righteousness flowing freely.

I'm onboard and in agreement with much that you point out BUT I would be interested in your response to the following:
Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.
Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?

 

[TEXBOW]

1 Corinthians 4:
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

From time to time I must examine myself that in my passion I do not become arrogant in my behavior. Truth can be delivered with roses or with thorns. The Holy Scriptures can speak for themselves. I think we are called to point to the truth but not force the truth upon another. Yes, I often have to examine myself. Without love, truths are harder to digest.

 

[atpollard]

So you agree this is not adding to Scripture, or you just agree with the addition?

Your effort to reprove the use of Scripture to reprove the addition to Scripture is a sideshow.

But to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus would say:

I find your misquoting Revelation by selective editing and ignoring context to pronounce a curse upon another Christian … sickening.

That is the point that I intended to make.
I am generally indifferent to your quotes or his quotes or that anything meaningful remains to be said after 800 posts. If it was within my power, I would have closed the topic long ago.

 

[atpollard]

Since you provide no correction to what I say it means by the teaching of your own people, then it stands as given.

(P) was defined in the OP.
You have already been corrected and ignored it.