Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

[DuckieLady]

Here is the deal.

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering. Honestly I quit out of pride and I was afraid I wouldn't be ever seen as marriage potential because of it. There, I said it.

And I can't change my mind and I have convictions, and every argument that I know of I have the answer to already, so I need you guys to argue with me and see if someone can change my mind.

It will take me a few hours to get back but I'll contest any responses- unless someone has one I can't deny.

Warning: I spent years studying this.

 

[farouk]

Here is the deal.

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering. Honestly I quit out of pride and I was afraid I wouldn't be ever seen as marriage potential because of it. There, I said it.

And I can't change my mind and I have convictions, and every argument that I know of I have the answer to already, so I need you guys to argue with me and see if someone can change my mind.

It will take me a few hours to get back but I'll contest any responses- unless someone has one I can't deny.

Warning: I spent years studying this.

@FluffyYellowDuck The context in 1 Corinthians seems to be while the church is gathered, rather than all the time. (If ppl want to wear one all the time, then this is an individual conviction...)

 

[Wrangler]

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering.

Repent & wear head covering so as to stop feeling guilty.

 

[DuckieLady]

@FluffyYellowDuck The context in 1 Corinthians seems to be while the church is gathered, rather than all the time. (If ppl want to wear one all the time, then this is an individual conviction...)

I can see that but I have trouble.

1 Cor 11:5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

And it says to pray unceasingly, but Moses removed his covering before coming to God, because it is a shame for man to be covered. But he wasn't at a church, he was on a mountain...

 

[DuckieLady]

Repent & wear head covering so as to stop feeling guilty.

This is the opposite response than I would have expected on here lol

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Here is the deal.

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering. Honestly I quit out of pride and I was afraid I wouldn't be ever seen as marriage potential because of it. There, I said it.

And I can't change my mind and I have convictions, and every argument that I know of I have the answer to already, so I need you guys to argue with me and see if someone can change my mind.

It will take me a few hours to get back but I'll contest any responses- unless someone has one I can't deny.

Warning: I spent years studying this.

I’m assuming you’re a female, but i dont know the length of your hair.
But here is the official OPC statement; “So all this is the official doctrine of the OPC because that's what the Bible teaches; and our doctrinal standards agree. Then why do we not continue the earlier practice of head covering in worship? Because head covering doesn't "say" the same thing in Paul's day that it does today. A harlot was recognizable in New Testament times by the way she dressed, but especially by what she didn't do with her hair. To let it loose and fall down was the sign of brazen independence then. Covering, on the other hand, was a sign of submission to her place in Christian society.
Verses 13 & 14 of 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says, "Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" Paul was appealing to custom or culture to make his point. He says as much in verse 16: "But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

while us presbyterians dont normally do this anymore, it used to be the pastors would greet everyone as they came in on Sunday, and if a lady wasnt wearing a head covering, they would tell you to go home and get a head covering. There was no argument to be made. You either wore one, or you didnt get in.

 

[DuckieLady]

@farouk What I mean is if its every time you pray or prophesy, for a woman to take it off and on all day and remember it gets tedious. Just easier to keep it on

 

[farouk]

I can see that but I have trouble.

1 Cor 11:5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

And it says to pray unceasingly, but Moses removed his covering before coming to God, because it is a shame for man to be covered. But he wasn't at a church, he was on a mountain...

For example, Lydia and other women met to pray (Acts 16); I reckon in a collective context like that they would have covered their heads.

Whether individuals do it when they are alone is a personal matter, right?

 

[Lambano]

Here is the deal.

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering. Honestly I quit out of pride and I was afraid I wouldn't be ever seen as marriage potential because of it. There, I said it.

And I can't change my mind and I have convictions, and every argument that I know of I have the answer to already, so I need you guys to argue with me and see if someone can change my mind.

It will take me a few hours to get back but I'll contest any responses- unless someone has one I can't deny.

Warning: I spent years studying this.

Can you give me some background on this? Is the head covering worn at all times, or only in church? Are we talking about a hat, or a veil?

A few years (well, a lot of years) back, we had a shared worship service with an African-American church downtown. Almost all the ladies wore hats, and they were gorgeous. We ought to do shared worship more often.

 

[Lambano]

And it says to pray unceasingly, but Moses removed his covering before coming to God, because it is a shame for man to be covered. But he wasn't at a church, he was on a mountain...

I attended a Jewish wedding in a synagogue. The men were of course wearing yarmulkes. I don't recall them removing their coverings.

 

[DuckieLady]

I’m assuming you’re a female, but i dont know the length of your hair.
But here is the official OPC statement; “So all this is the official doctrine of the OPC because that's what the Bible teaches; and our doctrinal standards agree. Then why do we not continue the earlier practice of head covering in worship? Because head covering doesn't "say" the same thing in Paul's day that it does today. A harlot was recognizable in New Testament times by the way she dressed, but especially by what she didn't do with her hair. To let it loose and fall down was the sign of brazen independence then. Covering, on the other hand, was a sign of submission to her place in Christian society.
Verses 13 & 14 of 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says, "Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" Paul was appealing to custom or culture to make his point. He says as much in verse 16: "But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

while us presbyterians dont normally do this anymore, it used to be the pastors would greet everyone as they came in on Sunday, and if a lady wasnt wearing a head covering, they would tell you to go home and get a head covering. There was no argument to be made. You either wore one, or you didnt get in.

Right, the reasoning Paul gives has nothing to do with prostitution - it has to do with the order of headship, and the last line "because of the angels" eliminates the possibility of it being for a culture or a time.

Is it coincidence that the doing away with the covering came about the same time as feminism and rebellion against Gods natural order of headship and family principles? Probably not.

 

[DuckieLady]

Can you give me some background on this? Is the head covering worn at all times, or only in church? Are we talking about a hat, or a veil?

A few years (well, a lot of years) back, we had a shared worship service with an African-American church downtown. Almost all the ladies wore hats, and they were gorgeous. We ought to do shared worship more often.

Should be worn in church but it says when she prays or prophesies. For me, that would be all day.

 

[farouk]

I’m assuming you’re a female, but i dont know the length of your hair.
But here is the official OPC statement; “So all this is the official doctrine of the OPC because that's what the Bible teaches; and our doctrinal standards agree. Then why do we not continue the earlier practice of head covering in worship? Because head covering doesn't "say" the same thing in Paul's day that it does today. A harlot was recognizable in New Testament times by the way she dressed, but especially by what she didn't do with her hair. To let it loose and fall down was the sign of brazen independence then. Covering, on the other hand, was a sign of submission to her place in Christian society.
Verses 13 & 14 of 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says, "Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" Paul was appealing to custom or culture to make his point. He says as much in verse 16: "But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

while us presbyterians dont normally do this anymore, it used to be the pastors would greet everyone as they came in on Sunday, and if a lady wasnt wearing a head covering, they would tell you to go home and get a head covering. There was no argument to be made. You either wore one, or you didnt get in.

Interestingly - as regards the word harlot, there - in the OT, the term 'Rahab the harlot' actually refers to a female innkeeper: more of a social commentary than supposed "proof" that the Israelite spies in Jericho were supposedly in Rahab's house for such purposes. Some versions don't even use the term 'Rahab the harlot' in translation...

 

[farouk]

@farouk What I mean is if its every time you pray or prophesy, for a woman to take it off and on all day and remember it gets tedious. Just easier to keep it on

@FluffyYellowDuck Recent reference was made to nose rings also and while some reactionary traditionalists might argue that nose rings should be removed for church services, this would honestly be hugely impractical...

 

[DuckieLady]

@FluffyYellowDuck Recent reference was made to nose rings also and while some reactionary traditionalists might argue that nose rings should be removed for church services, this would honestly be hugely impractical...

Wouldn't be biblical either, Rebekah was given one and bracelets to because she was getting married

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So are you married?? If so, and your husband told you that you were going to wear a covering, would you?

 

[farouk]

Wouldn't be biblical either, Rebekah was given one and bracelets to because she was getting married

@FluffyYellowDuck ....and in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord Himself is recorded as figuratively giving Zion a nose ring (in a passage reflecting the truth of imputed righteousness).

Christian women don't need to get nose studs put in, but those that wish to should just quietly go for it confidently.

 

[farouk]

So are you married?? If so, and your husband told you that you were going to wear a covering, would you?

@Lifelong_sinner My guess is that a prayerful couple would probably have discussed this sort of thing and come to a conclusion - and lots else, at length - and come to a conclusion one way or another before they ever tied the knot.

 

[Lambano]

13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

Since it says "judge for yourself", I judge it is proper for a woman to pray with her head uncovered. But this is your call, not mine.

Verse 15 is interesting. It says your hair is your covering. The only time my wife wore a covering in church was when she was undergoing chemo treatments and had no hair. So wear your hair long.

 

[DuckieLady]

So are you married?? If so, and your husband told you that you were going to wear a covering, would you?

No, but yes I would if he told me to, but it says women. It doesn't say wives.

assuming you’re a female, but i dont know the length of your hair.

Sorry I forgot to answer. It's almost to the middle of my back.