Once you join a church you will be accountable...

[Robert Gwin]

The talents are not capabilities, if that’s what you mean. The talents are given to a person “each according to his own ability.” Ability to do what? Bring increase to the talent(s). And so the talents themselves are not the ability itself that a person has. The talent is what is entrusted to a person to bring increase to according to his ability to do that.

May I ask you to interpret the parable Ferris, I have revealed the meaning through my interpretation, lets see how we compare sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The number of talents received only represents ability insofar as your ability to bring increase to the talents you have been given. And so the talent is not defined as one’s ability. The talent you receive is the knowledge of the kingdom of God. The talent is not your ability to bring increase to the talents. The Master gives us the measure of the knowledge of the Kingdom of God (talents) according to our ability to bring increase to it.

I believe you are saying exactly what I am saying, but under different terms. You said this time that talent represents knowledge and and ability to increase talents. Then you say that the talent is not defined as one's ability, which I gather you mean exclusively and I agree. Knowledge and ability go hand in hand in making more talents, which is disciples in this usage of the word. Our assignment is to make disciples, and that is the meaning of the parable sir. We will see how we compare when you interpret the parable, your understanding of it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

what is the capability of the wicked servant who curses his Lord?

isn't he this one:

Why do ye not understand My speech?
Because ye cannot hear My word.
(John 8:43)
​

if his ability is zero, why does the Master give him one weight?
as opposed to zero?

((see also Matthew 13:13-15, Isaiah 6:9, Mark 4:12, Ezekiel 12:2, John 10:26 etc))

to put it another way, why do the foolish virgins without oil, have lamps?

​

Hi Post, in order to address this I will need to know what you believe is the meaning of the parable.

 

[post]

Good post, but I can't agree that Matthew 25 is not simple. I mean, in light of other scripture I think it's pretty straight forward.

i do not believe any scripture is simple.
any given passage may or may not have a superficial meaning that is plain, but all scripture has layer upon layer of connection with the rest of the scripture and deep meaning, testifying of Christ. that's how we know it is the word of God: it is not like any book mankind has ever written.
we could spend our entire lifetime studying Matthew 25 without exhausting the things it says.

 

[bbyrd009]

The talent in the Parable of the Talent is the same as the seed in the Parable of the Sower. The seed is "the message of the kingdom" Matthew 13:19. And Jesus says the same thing about the talent as he says about the seed:

The seed:

“The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him." Matthew 13:11-12
​

The talent:

"29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him." Matthew 25:29​

no reason not to go with that i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

salvation has nothing to do with works.
salvation is in Christ alone by Christ's grace alone through faith in Christ alone, apart from works.

ok, ty

may i ask where are you seeing works-salvation in Matthew 25?

well, it should be apparent that the two who increased the master’s (hello) talents did so by their works?

anyway, im fairly convinced that this is another reflection of the kingdom, only from a different angle; but you guys are still…very gnostic, let’s say? I mean we are going to be judged by our works, regardless of what we might believe about “salvation” which we also currently do not share the same definition of, i guess.

point being i think that there is a subtle lesson to discern at the parable of the talents, but the assumption of our imminent immortality will prevent any real discussion of it

 

[Ferris Bueller]

but knowledge of Him is eternal life; He says so. John 17:3
His is the Kingdom.

so what are the weights?

Eternal life is to know him, not just know about him.

The 'weights' of value that the Master distributes is the treasure of God's word, the message of the kingdom.

Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me... Guard the treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us." 2 Timothy 1:13-14​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

May I ask you to interpret the parable Ferris, I have revealed the meaning through my interpretation, lets see how we compare sir.

Of course, the man going on the journey is Jesus, the head of the household of God. Before he leaves he entrusts the wealth of his teachings about the kingdom with the servants of the household for them to put that knowledge to work, thus bringing increase to it, according to their ability to do so.

After being gone a long time, the Master returns and settles accounts with the servants to see what they have done with the treasure of God's word he entrusted to them. Some put the knowledge of the kingdom to work, according to their ability, and brought increase to what they knew about the kingdom of God, and they are praised and receive stewardship over much, since they were faithful over a little. The one who did nothing with the knowledge of the kingdom of God he received is chastised and gets nothing in the kingdom and is cast out into the place of torment.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

Well anything can be taken to extremes as the later day saints, JW's do not so much the RCC anymore. But when you look at the gift ministries in Ephesians 4 for the maturing of the saints and the letters of Paul, they were all to local churches! We should be members in particular to submit ourselves to godly authority. Not in the sense they monitor every thought, word and deed, but to have order in the body and to accomplish gods purpose for a local assembly. Even Paul submitted to the authority of the Jerusalem Council. biblical accountability to one another in a church setting is a real good thing! It protects, matures and edifies.

 

[dev553344]

Well anything can be taken to extremes as the later day saints, JW's do not so much the RCC anymore. But when you look at the gift ministries in Ephesians 4 for the maturing of the saints and the letters of Paul, they were all to local churches! We should be members in particular to submit ourselves to godly authority. Not in the sense they monitor every thought, word and deed, but to have order in the body and to accomplish gods purpose for a local assembly. Even Paul submitted to the authority of the Jerusalem Council. biblical accountability to one another in a church setting is a real good thing! It protects, matures and edifies.

Yes I agree.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I believe you are saying exactly what I am saying, but under different terms.

No, because if I understood you correctly you said the talents themselves are capabilities given to people. But the parable says the talents are given according to the ability the servant has. I've heard this interpretation before, that the talent represents the ability God gives you. It does not. The talent is given according to the ability you have to bring increase to it by putting it to work.

You said this time that talent represents knowledge and and ability to increase talents.

No, I never said that the talent is ability given to a person. I don't believe that, so I would not have said that. The talent of knowledge is given according to one's ability to bring increase to it by putting it to work.

Then you say that the talent is not defined as one's ability, which I gather you mean exclusively and I agree.

Maybe you just misunderstood. I've been saying all along that the talent is not defined as ability that God gives to a person, but rather the knowledge of God that one puts to work according to their ability to bring increase to it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It's pretty much the HALLMARK of CULTS in general. "WE'RE THE ONLY ONES WITH THE TRUTH!!! WE are God's "ONE TRUE CHURCH ON EARTH". If you don't do it OUR WAY, You'll be DAMNED!!!! The Book of Galatians (the only church group that Paul DOESN'T thank God for) had allowed the Judaisers to come in and load the church with their "Legal requirements" - and Paul openly wonders if they're even a "Christian Church body" any more.

The CHURCH is the PEOPLE who are Born Again of the Holy Spirit - not the "organizations of man". All visible "Churches" are a mixture of Born Again Christians, and religious"Tares" who don't have a clue. Any "Organization of Man" needs to have certain "Ground rules" so that anarchy doesn't reign.

I'm a member in good standing, and a material supporter of the "Assemblies of God" denomination. Before you join an AG church, there's typically a "New Members orientation", but no "vows".

The Assemblies of God "16 fundamental truths". And their "4 Core Doctrines" are all well and good, but while I'm generally in agreement to some degree with them, they don't "Define me", my personal beliefs, or my personal theology (which is non-denominational, Non systematic, Charismatic, eclectic). But we get along just fine, and I can support their Corporate agenda (as a missionary society).

Note: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormons", I am one) totally acknowledge that other folks are Christian too, have good things, and will be spending eternity dancing around with Christ. LDS Christians do believe that LDS Christian theology is most correct, just like Baptist Christians believe that theology is most correct, and every other group does.

When a person wishes to join Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, they should do so because they feel Christ calling them that way after study & prayer. Not man. When a person is baptized, they make promises with God, not the church. The word "promise" or "covenant" are used to describe this, not "vows". The promises are to bear one another’s burdens, stand as witnesses of God, serve Him, and keep His commandments. And wen we falter, there's repentance- He is always there.

 

[post]

Hi Post, in order to address this I will need to know what you believe is the meaning of the parable.

lol you will have to wait 10,000 years then, for me to finish studying it to full comprehension!

let's look at it together.

here's an easy question:

Then he who had received the one talent came and said,
‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.'
(Matthew 25:24)​

is this man telling the truth about the Master?

 

[post]

Maybe you just misunderstood. I've been saying all along that the talent is not defined as ability that God gives to a person, but rather the knowledge of God that one puts to work according to their ability to bring increase to it.

the talent-weight is something that belongs to God, that He leaves in the care of His servants.
He gives it; they do not own it and do not procure it on their own.
He gives it according to ability, and the reward for magnifying it is the same for all, regardless of ability or the measure of the gift: entering into the joy of the Master.
the wicked take and bury what belongs to God.

in Joshua 6-7 a wicked man takes what belongs to God ((Joshua 6:18-19)) and buries it his tent.
how is this related?

6:18 is especially interesting -- most translations have this weirdly wrong:



see where it says "the accursed things" ?
notice that it's actually a singular tense? that's not "things" it's "thing"
and if you go look up Strong's 2764, you'll see it actually means "devoted"

it's "the devoted thing" not accursed things. we see that again in Joshua 7:15. "the devoted thing" not things. the thing that belongs to God, is set apart to God.

also if you go look up #2763 it doesn't mean 'accursed' -- it means 'to slit or disfigure'
while a disfigured person has the implication of having been cursed, that's not what's being said here.


we have to understand what Achan did in order to understand who the wicked servant who is given one measure of weight belonging to God is, why he buries it, and what he intends to do with it. we have to understand what the devoted thing is, to understand what that measure of weight is the wicked servant buried.
in Joshua 7:19-21 Joshua pleads with Achan to confess, and he does. he has taken silver, gold, and a garment from Babylon. which one of these is "the devoted thing" ?

are the talent-weights in Matthew 25 made up of only one thing?

this isn't simple

 

[Robert Gwin]

Of course, the man going on the journey is Jesus, the head of the household of God. Before he leaves he entrusts the wealth of his teachings about the kingdom with the servants of the household for them to put that knowledge to work, thus bringing increase to it, according to their ability to do so.

After being gone a long time, the Master returns and settles accounts with the servants to see what they have done with the treasure of God's word he entrusted to them. Some put the knowledge of the kingdom to work, according to their ability, and brought increase to what they knew about the kingdom of God, and they are praised and receive stewardship over much, since they were faithful over a little. The one who did nothing with the knowledge of the kingdom of God he received is chastised and gets nothing in the kingdom and is cast out into the place of torment.

I think we are in agreement Ferris, likely we disagree on the place of torment, but other than that, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, because if I understood you correctly you said the talents themselves are capabilities given to people. But the parable says the talents are given according to the ability the servant has. I've heard this interpretation before, that the talent represents the ability God gives you. It does not. The talent is given according to the ability you have to bring increase to it by putting it to work.


No, I never said that the talent is ability given to a person. I don't believe that, so I would not have said that. The talent of knowledge is given according to one's ability to bring increase to it by putting it to work.


Maybe you just misunderstood. I've been saying all along that the talent is not defined as ability that God gives to a person, but rather the knowledge of God that one puts to work according to their ability to bring increase to it.

No sense in having two places we are discussing this, so I answered in the other post sir.

 

[post]

Of course, the man going on the journey is Jesus, the head of the household of God. Before he leaves he entrusts the wealth of his teachings about the kingdom with the servants of the household for them to put that knowledge to work, thus bringing increase to it, according to their ability to do so.

all of us have the scripture, and God gives wisdom to all who ask ((James 1:5))
God calls the increase of 5 talent-weights "faithful over a few things" ((Matthew 25:21)) and exactly the same of the increase of 2 talent-weights. "few things" - tho comparatively enormous wealth by human standards. ((where else does Christ-God call something very small, very great? now we have to understand 'mustard seeds' in addition to Joshua 6-7. this is increasingly complex, as we should expect it to be))
those faithful servants returned to Him what is His, magnified.
God rewards them with entrance into His joy - salvation.

do we receive salvation by increasing knowledge?

 

[post]

the knowledge of God that one puts to work according to their ability to bring increase to it.

so is your position that 'ability to bring increase to knowledge' is intelligence? access to education?
is the wicked servant the least-smart? do only smart, clever people enter the joy of the Master?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

so is your position that 'ability to bring increase to knowledge' is intelligence? access to education?
is the wicked servant the least-smart? do only smart, clever people enter the joy of the Master?

No, maybe, maybe, and no.

People get educated in the things of God, then they either act on that knowledge bringing increase to it, or they don't.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

all of us have the scripture, and God gives wisdom to all who ask ((James 1:5))

Some have and understand more than others. And more is expected from the one who has more.