Church Bashing

[Brakelite]

Who is God talking to? Not us.

KJV 1 Corinthians 10:4-11
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

 

[Wrangler]

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition

Notice, your reference does not say anything like bash people who don't hold the same doctrines you do.

 

[Brakelite]

Notice, your reference does not say anything like bash people who don't hold the same doctrines you do.

Oh, most surely, and I was not in any way intimating that it does. My point in quoting Isaiah 58 was somewhat tongue in cheek as far as "bashing"is concerned, but not too forget that God never held back from criticizing His people when they sin. I think we need to keep in mind that not all criticism of church systems is bashing, but a justifiable rebuke for transgression, iniquity and sin.

 

[quietthinker]

This thread keeps coming up on my screen so I thought I'd throw in my piece of the pie.
Church bashing! absolutely! and with enthusiasm and sledge hammers....and what dust and rumble was generated before the renovation was complete!

 

[Lambano]

This thread keeps coming up on my screen so I thought I'd throw in my piece of the pie.
Church bashing! absolutely! and with enthusiasm and sledge hammers....and what dust and rumble was generated before the renovation was complete!

Back in '03, I had just completed our church website, and the first email we ever received came from some organization called 2nd-Peter-Something-or-Other that said God was soon going to judge the "Organized Church". Now, we'd just fired our pastor, a couple of committee meetings had ended in shouting matches, people were leaving in droves... I wrote back and told 2nd Peter that we had nothing to worry about, because we were definitely as Disorganized a church as you could find.

 

[Enoch111]

Aka the "second death" i believe is uncertain what that exactly entails?

Since the Second Death follows physical death, it is associated with the Lake of Fire. And since the Lake of Fire causes eternal torment to the Unholy Trinity (Reb 20:10), it follows that the Second Death is eternal separation from God in eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.

 

[quietthinker]

Back in '03, I had just completed our church website, and the first email we ever received came from some organization called 2nd-Peter-Something-or-Other that said God was soon going to judge the "Organized Church". Now, we'd just fired our pastor, a couple of committee meetings had ended in shouting matches, people were leaving in droves... I wrote back and told 2nd Peter that we had nothing to worry about, because we were definitely as Disorganized a church as you could find.

 

[quietthinker]

Since the Second Death follows physical death, it is associated with the Lake of Fire. And since the Lake of Fire causes eternal torment to the Unholy Trinity (Reb 20:10), it follows that the Second Death is eternal separation from God in eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.

when you figure out what death means, we can talk again

 

[Wrangler]

Oh, most surely, and I was not in any way intimating that it does. My point in quoting Isaiah 58 was somewhat tongue in cheek as far as "bashing"is concerned, but not too forget that God never held back from criticizing His people when they sin. I think we need to keep in mind that not all criticism of church systems is bashing, but a justifiable rebuke for transgression, iniquity and sin.

Then you are changing the subject under discussion.

But I am disturbed by the Christians on this forum who put themselves as judge - over people and doctrine. It is far more than acknowledge transgression, iniquity and sin. It is a pathway to rationalizing the first sin, pride.

We are not God. Rather than tear down other Christ followers, why don't you focus on making the world a better place?

 

[JohnPaul]

Then you are changing the subject under discussion.

But I am disturbed by the Christians on this forum who put themselves as judge - over people and doctrine. It is far more than acknowledge transgression, iniquity and sin. It is a pathway to rationalizing the first sin, pride.

We are not God. Rather than tear down other Christ followers, why don't you focus on making the world a better place?

So we are to accept and embrace all that is wrong and not judge? I think you are wrong, we must point out what goes against God's word, it's our duty to do so.

It's why the world is headed towards eternal damnation because people are afraid to speak up and point out what is wrong and against God's law and word.

When the time comes will you be a soldier in God's army and lay your life down for the truth wich is the word and law of God?

I am prepared to do so.

 

[Brakelite]

Then you are changing the subject under discussion.

But I am disturbed by the Christians on this forum who put themselves as judge - over people and doctrine. It is far more than acknowledge transgression, iniquity and sin. It is a pathway to rationalizing the first sin, pride.

We are not God. Rather than tear down other Christ followers, why don't you focus on making the world a better place?

Doctrine is either truth, or it isn't. Truth matters. And despite the opinions of some, I think it possible to know what is truth, and when we do, share it with others.

 

[Wrangler]

So we are to accept and embrace all that is wrong and not judge? I think you are wrong, we must point out what goes against God's word, it's our duty to do so.

"Pointing out" is not bashing. Stop appealing to Strawman!

And yes, we are NOT to judge. Who the hell do you think you are? (We only have the right to judge those we have authority over.) Even our lord refused to judge - even when he was invited to do so! Luke 12:13-14. What does that tell you?

And no, we do not accept and embrace all that is wrong. Your mind must be really twisted to get that from Philippians 4:8. I focus on the joy that comes from looking into my granddaughter's eyes, etc. The burden to judge all that is wrong is not yours or mine! Praise God! Church Bashers talk like self-righteous, insufferable know it all's, busy bodies, not humble children of God.


Jesus: If you judge other people, then you will find that you, too, are being judged ... Why is it that you see the dust in your brother’s or sister’s eye, but you can’t see what is in your own eye? 4 Don’t ignore the wooden plank in your eye, while you criticize the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eyelashes. 5 That type of criticism and judgment is a sham!
Matthew 7 (Voice)

 

[Wrangler]

Rather than tear down other Christ followers, why don't you focus on making the world a better place?

So we are to accept and embrace all that is wrong and not judge?

Not an answer to my question.

 

[Wrangler]

Doctrine is either truth, or it isn't.

Jesus is the truth, not your doctrine. Again, let me remind you that there is no doctrinal purity test to be saved. What does that tell you?

 

[Brakelite]

"Pointing out" is not bashing. Stop appealing to Strawman!

And yes, we are NOT to judge. Who the hell do you think you are? (We only have the right to judge those we have authority over.) Even our lord refused to judge - even when he was invited to do so! Luke 12:13-14. What does that tell you?

And no, we do not accept and embrace all that is wrong. Your mind must be really twisted to get that from Philippians 4:8. I focus on the joy that comes from looking into my granddaughter's eyes, etc. The burden to judge all that is wrong is not yours or mine! Praise God! Church Bashers talk like self-righteous, insufferable know it all's, busy bodies, not humble children of God.


Jesus: If you judge other people, then you will find that you, too, are being judged ... Why is it that you see the dust in your brother’s or sister’s eye, but you can’t see what is in your own eye? 4 Don’t ignore the wooden plank in your eye, while you criticize the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eyelashes. 5 That type of criticism and judgment is a sham!
Matthew 7 (Voice)

I think we need to differentiate between judging a church/institution and judging individual people who happen at the present time to belong to that church. One is not the same as the other although some choose to be offended as if it were. Remember, it is our duty to call people out of Babylon. We cannot do that unless the identity and truths of Babylon are exposed.

 

[JohnPaul]

Not an answer to my question.

Too bad then.

 

[JohnPaul]

"Pointing out" is not bashing. Stop appealing to Strawman!

And yes, we are NOT to judge. Who the hell do you think you are? (We only have the right to judge those we have authority over.) Even our lord refused to judge - even when he was invited to do so! Luke 12:13-14. What does that tell you?

And no, we do not accept and embrace all that is wrong. Your mind must be really twisted to get that from Philippians 4:8. I focus on the joy that comes from looking into my granddaughter's eyes, etc. The burden to judge all that is wrong is not yours or mine! Praise God! Church Bashers talk like self-righteous, insufferable know it all's, busy bodies, not humble children of God.


Jesus: If you judge other people, then you will find that you, too, are being judged ... Why is it that you see the dust in your brother’s or sister’s eye, but you can’t see what is in your own eye? 4 Don’t ignore the wooden plank in your eye, while you criticize the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eyelashes. 5 That type of criticism and judgment is a sham!
Matthew 7 (Voice)

I'm not appealing to anyone and certainly not you, and it is my right to judge as a Christian and to point out the wrongs to those who break God's law and accept vile filth and twist the minds of our youth into thinking everything is ok.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Then you are changing the subject under discussion.

But I am disturbed by the Christians on this forum who put themselves as judge - over people and doctrine. It is far more than acknowledge transgression, iniquity and sin. It is a pathway to rationalizing the first sin, pride.

We are not God. Rather than tear down other Christ followers, why don't you focus on making the world a better place?

First not correct or inclusive enough using the word “men.” Then arrogant, lacking peace, and now prideful. And tearing people down…I’m REALLY busy!
Now we shouldn’t judge and correct doctrine because it tears down people to do so.
Just beware the leaven of men, but do it silently, in your head, don’t talk about trying to get rid of it because it won’t make the world a better place. The doctrines end in judging unbelievers and arrogance that harms men but to talk about it is prideful.
What a mess…black is white and white is black.

 

[Wrangler]

Too bad then.

Yea, too bad for you. You failed the humility test.

Only others have the burden to endure scrutiny.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And yes, we are NOT to judge. Who the hell do you think you are? (We only have the right to judge those we have authority over.) Even our lord refused to judge - even when he was invited to do so! Luke 12:13-14. What does that tell you?

The bereans judged what was being taught them, to see if it was right with scripture.
They were commended for doing so. I’m pretty sure…
But I dont think judging and condemning unbelievers to eternal torture fits with any of scripture. We are told not to judge them but leave the judging to God, but our doctrines teach us to do the opposite.