Perfection

[Ronald David Bruno]

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 RSV

I frequently hear people say that it is impossible not to sin. I know we’ve all sinned but I don’t know why we can’t stop.

"In Him" there is no sin. We are in Him, therefore, our spirits, cleansed, enter in Him and are pure. However, we still have the flesh and sometimes walk in the flesh. We actually experience perfection when the Holy Spirit works through us to do His will. During these moments when we witness or minister or just give encouragement to someone who needs it at that moment, it's perfect. I think we experience a lot of perfect moments and then they pass. Otherwise, how would His will get done through us perfectly? Obviously we are cooperating. Of course some walk in the Spirit more than others and accomplish more for the LORD, hence the laborers are few. That is just a fact, but the work is getting done.

 

[Pierac]

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 RSV

I frequently hear people say that it is impossible not to sin. I know we’ve all sinned but I don’t know why we can’t stop.

Because Sin is more than just an ethical issue...

Sin G264

ἁμαρτάνω
hamartánō; fut. hamartḗsō, aor. hēmártēsa; 2d aor. hḗmarton. To sin, to miss a mark on the way, not to hit the mark. One who keeps missing the mark in his relationship to God is hamartōlós (G268), sinner.

To miss the mark is also a sin...

Look at Cain and Able...
Gen 4:2 Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. 4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; 5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

You see here that Cain did not commit some ethical issue...by offering the fruit of the ground... He just missed the Mark! However, missing the Mark... also lead to Murder!

 

[Pearl]

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 RSV

I frequently hear people say that it is impossible not to sin. I know we’ve all sinned but I don’t know why we can’t stop.

We can stop - but it may be very gradually. Before we come to Jesus we sin with no thought or shame whatever to the fact that we are sinning - we don't recognise sin as sin. But after we come to Jesus and have become Christians we know when we sin and are ashamed of it and seek forgiveness and in time we sin less and less because we are no longer sinners but saints who know the difference.

 

[Bob Estey]

Because Sin is more than just an ethical issue...

Sin G264

ἁμαρτάνω
hamartánō; fut. hamartḗsō, aor. hēmártēsa; 2d aor. hḗmarton. To sin, to miss a mark on the way, not to hit the mark. One who keeps missing the mark in his relationship to God is hamartōlós (G268), sinner.

To miss the mark is also a sin...

Look at Cain and Able...
Gen 4:2 Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. 4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; 5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

You see here that Cain did not commit some ethical issue...by offering the fruit of the ground... He just missed the Mark! However, missing the Mark... also lead to Murder!

If Jesus told us we need to perfect, then certainly it is possible.

 

[Bob Estey]

We can stop - but it may be very gradually. Before we come to Jesus we sin with no thought or shame whatever to the fact that we are sinning - we don't recognise sin as sin. But after we come to Jesus and have become Christians we know when we sin and are ashamed of it and seek forgiveness and in time we sin less and less because we are no longer sinners but saints who know the difference.

I find that I need the Lord's help sometimes.

 

[Pierac]

If Jesus told us we need to perfect, then certainly it is possible.

If Jesus told us we need to perfect, then certainly it is possible.

Of course it's possible... Just not by you or me... It has been made possible by Jesus' life and death for our... Missing the mark!

Who's faith is required anyway???

KJV Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

ASV Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

NIV Gal 2:16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

CLV Gal 2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."

So is it your faith in or the Faith of the Christ that saves...

 

[michaelvpardo]

You should examine the original language for that verse because it really doesn't mean perfect as in our common usage. The meaning is closer to "complete. "

 

[Bob Estey]

Of course it's possible... Just not by you or me... It has been made possible by Jesus' life and death for our... Missing the mark!

Who's faith is required anyway???

KJV Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

ASV Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

NIV Gal 2:16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

CLV Gal 2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."

So is it your faith in or the Faith of the Christ that saves...

It does take some effort on our part.

 

[Pierac]

It does take some effort on our part.

So what's our part... If is Faith and Belief are a Gift from God???

Belief is a GIFT - Phil 1:29 - "For you have been granted [the gift] to grant as a favor for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf."

Faith is a GIFT - Eph 2:8-10 - "For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [ the gift of] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

 

[Enoch111]

If Jesus told us we need to perfect, then certainly it is possible.

Correct. Firstly God deems the believer as perfect (justification). Then He enables the saint towards perfection (sanctification). And finally He Himself perfects the child of God completely (glorification). Only those who are deemed to be as righteous as Christ can enter Heaven.

 

[Bob Estey]

So what's our part... If is Faith and Belief are a Gift from God???

Belief is a GIFT - Phil 1:29 - "For you have been granted [the gift] to grant as a favor for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf."

Faith is a GIFT - Eph 2:8-10 - "For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [ the gift of] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

We need to resist temptation.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes you DO... reject Bible Scripture, specifically the Scriptures I showed you in my post #127 revealing how a believer on Christ CAN 'fall away'. You reject those Scriptures because of those who have lied to you with their OSAS doctrines of men.

I guess Jesus was lying when He said that those that simply “ come to Him” ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation......I must have misunderstood the word” Never”...... my bad.....

 

[Davy]

I guess Jesus was lying when He said that those that simply “ come to Him” ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation......I must have misunderstood the word” Never”...... my bad.....

Like I said, you reject those Scriptures I showed you in my post #127, and you also show cowardice by not addressing those Scriptures proofs about falling away.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Like I said, you reject those Scriptures I showed you in my post #127, and you also show cowardice by not addressing those Scriptures proofs about falling away.

Ok....you win......happy now?

 

[Davy]

Ok....you win......happy now?

So you think all this is about winning an argument? That just shows how deceived you are.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So you think all this is about winning an argument? That just shows how deceived you are.

You win again.....( are you getting the sense that I don’t care about this? Good.)