What is the purpose of the Tribulation?

[Joshua David]

This subject came up in another topic, and I wanted to explore it a little further, and get other people's opinion on it. What do you see is the purpose of the Tribulation?


Just to be fair, let me give my answer. I believe that the tribulation will serve 3 purposes.


1) To refine Unsaved Israel, bringing them into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ
2) To awaken the 'fense-sitters' and force them to make a decision. Just to clarify, I consider a fense sitter someone who hasn't outright rejected the Lord's salvation, but they haven't accepted it either.
3) And the third purpose is to punish the unbelieving earth for their rejection of God's Salvation.


What do you think?


Joshua David

 

[tomwebster]

This subject came up in another topic, and I wanted to explore it a little further, and get other people's opinion on it. What do you see is the purpose of the Tribulation?
...

Which tribulation,? There are two.

 

[Foreigner]

To give people on this board something to talk about.

 

[Joshua David]

Which tribulation,? There are two.

Well then if you see two tribulations, then what is the purpose of each of them?


Joshua David

 

[aspen]

This subject came up in another topic, and I wanted to explore it a little further, and get other people's opinion on it. What do you see is the purpose of the Tribulation?

Just to be fair, let me give my answer. I believe that the tribulation will serve 3 purposes.

1) To refine Unsaved Israel, bringing them into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ
2) To awaken the 'fense-sitters' and force them to make a decision. Just to clarify, I consider a fense sitter someone who hasn't outright rejected the Lord's salvation, but they haven't accepted it either.
3) And the third purpose is to punish the unbelieving earth for their rejection of God's Salvation.

What do you think?

Joshua David

Something tells me that you are going to hate my opinion on your post.

The tribulation already occurred. It is a historical event, which occurred after the Temple was destroyed and raised again in three days (Jesus's resurrection); and during the time of the Beast, 666, Nero who took his seat as the god of the whole world. Many Christians were martyred and continued to be executed until The Whole World was converted to Christianity (Rome legalized Christianity) - then the reign of Christ lasted a long time (The Kingdom of God in Christian's hearts for 1000 years) - now we wait for Christ.

told you

 

[Prentis]

Hmm... I think there's more than one. As always, first and foremost it is for the glory of God.

The first thing that comes to my mind is this: to prepare a bride perfect, without spot or wrinkled. As it says "through many trials must we enter the kingdom of God". I think it's to bring the followers of Christ to be perfected through the fire.

"And in that day, the least of these will be as David" :blink: What?!??! That's crazy...

Just my two cents

 

[tomwebster]

Hmm... I think there's more than one. As always, first and foremost it is for the glory of God.

The first thing that comes to my mind is this: to prepare a bride perfect, without spot or wrinkled. As it says "through many trials must we enter the kingdom of God". I think it's to bring the followers of Christ to be perfected through the fire.

"And in that day, the least of these will be as David" :blink: What?!??!

...

What Bible do you read? Where is, "through many trials must we enter the kingdom of God?" and "And in that day, the least of these will be as David?"

 

[Joshua David]

Something tells me that you are going to hate my opinion on your post.

The tribulation already occurred. It is a historical event, which occurred after the Temple was destroyed and raised again in three days (Jesus's resurrection); and during the time of the Beast, 666, Nero who took his seat as the god of the whole world. Many Christians were martyred and continued to be executed until The Whole World was converted to Christianity (Rome legalized Christianity) - then the reign of Christ lasted a long time (The Kingdom of God in Christian's hearts for 1000 years) - now we wait for Christ.

told you

Well Aspen, I will be honest, I need to get something off my chest.... As far as your post is concerned... I don't hate it at all

Thank you very much for sharing. I may not agree with it, but then again I did ask the question to get other people's opinions. Sometimes, I wish we could get together for coffee sometimes and discuss our different outlooks. I think that we could be friends.


Joshua David

 

[aspen]

Well Aspen, I will be honest, I need to get something off my chest.... As far as your post is concerned... I don't hate it at all

Thank you very much for sharing. I may not agree with it, but then again I did ask the question to get other people's opinions. Sometimes, I wish we could get together for coffee sometimes and discuss our different outlooks. I think that we could be friends.

Joshua David

Thanks! I think it would be fun to talk, as well!

 

[Prentis]

What Bible do you read? Where is, "through many trials must we enter the kingdom of God?" and "And in that day, the least of these will be as David?"

(1) Mostly KJV, though I also read other versions.
(2) Acts 14:22
(3) Zechariah 12:8

Hope that answers your questions

Blessings

 

[Charlie]

[quote name='Joshua David' timestamp='1307020514' post='112902']
This subject came up in another topic, and I wanted to explore it a little further, and get other people's opinion on it. What do you see is the purpose of the Tribulation?


Just to be fair, let me give my answer. I believe that the tribulation will serve 3 purposes.


1) To refine Unsaved Israel, bringing them into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ
2) To awaken the 'fense-sitters' and force them to make a decision. Just to clarify, I consider a fense sitter someone who hasn't outright rejected the Lord's salvation, but they haven't accepted it either.
3) And the third purpose is to punish the unbelieving earth for their rejection of God's Salvation.

What do you think?

Joshua David
[/quote]

There are a number of OT prophecies about what will take place during the Tribulation and one purpose of the tribulation is to fulfill those prophecies. Many of them apply to the Israelites of the tribulation time and they will all be fulfilled as well as those prophecies that apply to the rest of mankind.

That, I think, is the primary purpose.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[Episkopos]

The perfecting of the saints!

 

[veteran]

I didn't see anyone try to answer Tom's question about which tribulation, for indeed there are two, the other one is inferred in God's Word, which is the cup of His wrath at His coming on the day of The Lord. The first one is upon His saints, the other is upon Satan's host on the earth and the deceived.

There is only ONE time of gathering of the saints by Christ Jesus written of in God's Word, and it is after the first tribulation. This is why Christ gave His warning once again to His saints that He comes "as a thief" in between the 6th and 7th Vials. That forewarning is for all His saints, not just some supposed small group of Israelites that come to believe during the tribulation. The whole Church is gathered at the same time on the last day of this world, not pieces of it at different times.

 

[avoice]

This subject came up in another topic, and I wanted to explore it a little further, and get other people's opinion on it. What do you see is the purpose of the Tribulation?


Just to be fair, let me give my answer. I believe that the tribulation will serve 3 purposes.


1) To refine Unsaved Israel, bringing them into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ
2) To awaken the 'fense-sitters' and force them to make a decision. Just to clarify, I consider a fense sitter someone who hasn't outright rejected the Lord's salvation, but they haven't accepted it either.
3) And the third purpose is to punish the unbelieving earth for their rejection of God's Salvation.


What do you think?


Joshua David

Moses tells God’s people that God will give them what He calls the Promised Land. It is a land flowing with milk and honey. He will settle His people down in this land and this is where He will then break the Israelites off into 12 different tribes.

However, there is one little catch to this story. Before they are allowed to enter into this Promised Land, they must all first pass a test with the Lord. God allows them to stay in the wilderness for 40 years. He gives them all the basics as far as food and water in order to survive in the wilderness for the 40 years. God purposely tested His people to see if they would hold fast to Him and follow all of His ways while in this wilderness setting


As it was it will be and no one will escape this test.... You simply can not enter into the promised land a type for (millieum/ end of this age until you pass the test the tribulation.

Even the sealed 144,000 Elect dont escape the tribulation ..they are given a seal that they are not to be hurt.... but even they dont escape it .... and men can look for non existent doctrines to delude themselfs ... but any one who is going to enter the promised land this time around must pass Gods test.

There is nothing new under the sun everything that has been will be ..All these things he gave us for examples. ...

What we are not all appointed to is Gods wrath. 1Th 5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

If people paid more attention on how to avoid the wrath of God rather than worrying about false delivering from the testing of the tribulation that no one will escape ...they would be far better off.

There are two tribulations which one do you want to escape?

 

[Prentis]

Interesting post, avoice! And nice to meet you...

I don't necessarily agree with the what, how, when and all that. But details details... My view on that is not really set or founded.

I do agree with the essentials though; God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Unless we pass the test, endure the trial, we CANNOT enter the promised land.

Blessings to you!

 

[avoice]

Interesting post, avoice! And nice to meet you...

I don't necessarily agree with the what, how, when and all that. But details details... My view on that is not really set or founded.

I do agree with the essentials though; God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Unless we pass the test, endure the trial, we CANNOT enter the promised land.

Blessings to you!

Nice to meet you too Prentis
You are right about God being the same

 

[Joshua David]

However, there is one little catch to this story. Before they are allowed to enter into this Promised Land, they must all first pass a test with the Lord. God allows them to stay in the wilderness for 40 years. He gives them all the basics as far as food and water in order to survive in the wilderness for the 40 years. God purposely tested His people to see if they would hold fast to Him and follow all of His ways while in this wilderness setting


As it was it will be and no one will escape this test.... You simply can not enter into the promised land a type for (millieum/ end of this age until you pass the test the tribulation.

Even the sealed 144,000 Elect dont escape the tribulation ..they are given a seal that they are not to be hurt.... but even they dont escape it .... and men can look for non existent doctrines to delude themselfs ... but any one who is going to enter the promised land this time around must pass Gods test.

There is nothing new under the sun everything that has been will be ..All these things he gave us for examples. ...

But you see there is just one little catch to your story. The wilderness was not a test, it was a punishment. All the different tests, the trip there with God providing water and food for them, the bitter water that God made sweet, all these happened on the way to the promise land, so that they could learn to trust God. That is all that God requires. God had given the promise land to them freely and without restriction, all they had to do is believe him and enter in. The Israelites failed the big test, and only 2 out of the 10 spies came back with a good report. Their report was it is, just as God says, let's go and enter in. It was everyone else that didn't believe. Again the 40 years of wandering was not a test, it was a punishment for failing the test. Everyone who had failed the test when God brought them to the promise land, died and did not enter in.


This is one of the exact reasons that I posted this thread, because it shows that some people who believe in the Post tribulation rapture believe that the church must be purified to be a proper bride. Isn't that the feeling that was behind this post. Avoice, let me say, that I am not trying to pick on you, I am glad that you responded. But consider this, the Christians that died before the tribulation have no need to be purified to enter into the kingdom, neither do the Christians that are alive the day before the tribulation starts.


The Tribulation is not about testing the church, it is not about refining the church, it is not about preparing the church, it does not have anything to do with the church.


Joshua David

 

[avoice]

But you see there is just one little catch to your story. The wilderness was not a test, it was a punishment. All the different tests, the trip there with God providing water and food for them, the bitter water that God made sweet, all these happened on the way to the promise land, so that they could learn to trust God. That is all that God requires. God had given the promise land to them freely and without restriction, all they had to do is believe him and enter in. The Israelites failed the big test, and only 2 out of the 10 spies came back with a good report. Their report was it is, just as God says, let's go and enter in. It was everyone else that didn't believe. Again the 40 years of wandering was not a test, it was a punishment for failing the test. Everyone who had failed the test when God brought them to the promise land, died and did not enter in.


This is one of the exact reasons that I posted this thread, because it shows that some people who believe in the Post tribulation rapture believe that the church must be purified to be a proper bride. Isn't that the feeling that was behind this post. Avoice, let me say, that I am not trying to pick on you, I am glad that you responded. But consider this, the Christians that died before the tribulation have no need to be purified to enter into the kingdom, neither do the Christians that are alive the day before the tribulation starts.


The Tribulation is not about testing the church, it is not about refining the church, it is not about preparing the church, it does not have anything to do with the church.


Joshua David

Thats exactly who its has to do with ... and you mean the Israelites were worshiping false gods/ and rebelling and complaining ect.

Yeah your right that's nothing like today B) I got a bridge to seel you

Thats why three fourths the churchs follow false doctrines of one kind or another Belive what you chose but the only people with standing with Christ at the end are those who overcame the tribulation and Elect ..... One must over come a thing to be an overcomer. No one will escape the tribulation ...

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

They have overcome notice the white robes that is the color of saints. These are those who make to the first resurrection ..... Christ returns once theres one harvest souls ....

 

[veteran]

But you see there is just one little catch to your story. The wilderness was not a test, it was a punishment. All the different tests, the trip there with God providing water and food for them, the bitter water that God made sweet, all these happened on the way to the promise land, so that they could learn to trust God. That is all that God requires. God had given the promise land to them freely and without restriction, all they had to do is believe him and enter in. The Israelites failed the big test, and only 2 out of the 10 spies came back with a good report. Their report was it is, just as God says, let's go and enter in. It was everyone else that didn't believe. Again the 40 years of wandering was not a test, it was a punishment for failing the test. Everyone who had failed the test when God brought them to the promise land, died and did not enter in.


This is one of the exact reasons that I posted this thread, because it shows that some people who believe in the Post tribulation rapture believe that the church must be purified to be a proper bride. Isn't that the feeling that was behind this post. Avoice, let me say, that I am not trying to pick on you, I am glad that you responded. But consider this, the Christians that died before the tribulation have no need to be purified to enter into the kingdom, neither do the Christians that are alive the day before the tribulation starts.


The Tribulation is not about testing the church, it is not about refining the church, it is not about preparing the church, it does not have anything to do with the church.


Joshua David

You're right about the time in the wilderness, it was to purge out the rebellious generation that refused to believe, so they would not enter into the promised land.

But you're wrong that the great tribulation is not as a test upon a portion of Christ's Church.

Rev 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(KJV)

That "hour of temptation" is specifically what the great tribulation is about. Christ showed a detail of what it is that will cause that temptation; it's about the idol abomination and false messiah that is to be setup in Jerusalem for the last days.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul showed that specific working will cause the great apostasy of many believers in that time. Jesus well showed that involving the deceived in His Body by the five foolish virgins that have a lamp with the Oil, but no spare vessel of that Oil (Holy Spirit). He said He will tell those who ask Him to open the door to get away from Him, that He never knew them, because of their iniquity. What iniquity? It's specific, and involves their falling away to that false one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2. Falling to worship anything and anyone else instead of Christ Jesus will result in that specific iniquity that will cause that apostasy.

But Christ's elect He promise to keep them from THAT temptation, for that's what that "hour of temptation" is about that is to come upon ALL those on earth. That's what Christ was talking about in Matt.24 with those of His elect, that the working of the coming false messiah would be so powerful in deception, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, it would deceive His own elect.

So if Christ guards His elect from falling to that "hour of temptation", then just what is their purpose for going through that tribulation?

Understand that, and you'll know why all alive of Christ's Church must go through the coming tribulation.

 

[revturmoil]

You're right about the time in the wilderness, it was to purge out the rebellious generation that refused to believe, so they would not enter into the promised land.

But you're wrong that the great tribulation is not as a test upon a portion of Christ's Church.

Rev 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(KJV)

That "hour of temptation" is specifically what the great tribulation is about. Christ showed a detail of what it is that will cause that temptation; it's about the idol abomination and false messiah that is to be setup in Jerusalem for the last days.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul showed that specific working will cause the great apostasy of many believers in that time. Jesus well showed that involving the deceived in His Body by the five foolish virgins that have a lamp with the Oil, but no spare vessel of that Oil (Holy Spirit). He said He will tell those who ask Him to open the door to get away from Him, that He never knew them, because of their iniquity. What iniquity? It's specific, and involves their falling away to that false one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2. Falling to worship anything and anyone else instead of Christ Jesus will result in that specific iniquity that will cause that apostasy.

But Christ's elect He promise to keep them from THAT temptation, for that's what that "hour of temptation" is about that is to come upon ALL those on earth. That's what Christ was talking about in Matt.24 with those of His elect, that the working of the coming false messiah would be so powerful in deception, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, it would deceive His own elect.

So if Christ guards His elect from falling to that "hour of temptation", then just what is their purpose for going through that tribulation?

Understand that, and you'll know why all alive of Christ's Church must go through the coming tribulation.

Some translations actually use the word protect.

God saved Noah and his family 'through' the flood.
God saved Daniel 'through' the lions den.
God saved the three Hebrew children 'through' the firery furnace.
God saved Job 'through' his trials.

What makes anyboby think He will remove christians from tribulation?

Not only will the tribulation bring us closer to God. It will cause many to turn to Him.