Catholic issues

[theefaith]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized

notice: they did not go preaching salvation by faith alone!

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”


10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Please show me the word baptize in this conversation. Since this is the conversation water regeneration people love to use as proof.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

Ephesians 2:1
By Grace Through Faith
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Born again means we have been made alive who were dead. Spiritual rebirth.

 

[theefaith]

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”


10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Please show me the word baptize in this conversation. Since this is the conversation water regeneration people love to use as proof.

first you say John 3 now it’s something else

Jn 3:5 by WATER and THE SPIRIT!
Baptism period!

 

[theefaith]

Ephesians 2:1
By Grace Through Faith
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Born again means we have been made alive who were dead. Spiritual rebirth.

Quicken or made alive is by baptism


God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!







Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

first you say John 3 now it’s something else

Jn 3:5 by WATER and THE SPIRIT!
Baptism period!

If you want to prove that, show me where Jesus told nicodemus to be baptized to be born again.

Either show me where Jesus told Nicodemus to get baptized. or admit you can't

Those are your only two options.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Quicken or made alive is by baptism


God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!







Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Nope

Paul said we are quicked by the spirit. That it is by grace through faith not of works lest anyone should boast.

Gal 3 is spirit baptism

1 cor 12 is spirit baptism, not water

Your attributing the work of the HS in baptizing us into Christ, his death, his burial and his body, to some man who immerses you in water

by definition that is blasphemy of the spirit

 

[theefaith]

Nope

Paul said we are quicked by the spirit. That it is by grace through faith not of works lest anyone should boast.

Gal 3 is spirit baptism

1 cor 12 is spirit baptism, not water

Your attributing the work of the HS in baptizing us into Christ, his death, his burial and his body, to some man who immerses you in water

by definition that is blasphemy of the spirit

Acts 22:16
Titus 3:5
Wash wash wash
Water is the outward sign that signifies what is accomplished by inward grace the washing of the soul!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Acts 22:16
Titus 3:5
Wash wash wash
Water is the outward sign that signifies what is accomplished by inward grace the washing of the soul!

you almost got it

Baptism is a SIGN of what happened eternally

The HS is what washes us eternally. The baptism is a representative of that act of God

The HS WASHED,

When you were Baptised, YOU GOT WET. Id did not remove the filth of the flesh, because it can not do that

 

[theefaith]

you almost got it

Baptism is a SIGN of what happened eternally

The HS is what washes us eternally. The baptism is a representative of that act of God

The HS WASHED,

When you were Baptised, YOU GOT WET. Id did not remove the filth of the flesh, because it can not do that

not baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit alone
Matt 28:19 but in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit

 

[Eternally Grateful]

not baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit alone
Matt 28:19 but in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit

Baptized WITH the Hs

get it right my friend

 

[Marymog]

When you stand in front of Christ on Judgment day. Who will be held responsible for what you believe?

Scripture has already answered that question:

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls and will give an account.

 

[Marymog]

I know that Catholics believe mere bread and wine turn miraculously into the actual body and blood of Jesus but what do you make of this passage?

John 16:25
“Though I have been speaking figuratively.

This comes straight after the Passover supper. So I believe it is fair to say that when Jesus told the 12 to drink of his blood and eat of his body it was figurative speech just like when he said he was the gate, or when he said he was the true vine.

Hold on....HOLD ON!!

The Last Supper with the 'bread of life discourse', when Jesus said this IS my body/blood; you must eat/drink to have life in you etc, was in John 6. According to biblical scholars this took place in 29AD

You then fast forward to John 16, which took place in 30AD when Jesus was having a totally different conversation with the Apostles where he said it was figurative speech. You then equate THAT 'figurative speech' into the bread of life discourse in John 6 also? That takes a bit of twisting to do. What man taught you that?

Keeping it real....Mary

PS: Maybe at @Eternally Grateful can help you un-twist your twisting of Scripture since she "liked" your post

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hold on....HOLD ON!!

The Last Supper with the 'bread of life discourse', when Jesus said this IS my body/blood; you must eat/drink to have life in you etc, was in John 6. According to biblical scholars this took place in 29AD

Hold on. John 6 was not the last supper. In John 6. Jesus said whoever ate this bread will live forever.

At the last supper. Jesus said eat often, and no promise of eternal life was given

You then fast forward to John 16, which took place in 30AD when Jesus was having a totally different conversation with the Apostles where he said it was figurative speech. You then equate THAT 'figurative speech' into the bread of life discourse in John 6 also? That takes a bit of twisting to do. What man taught you that?


Keeping it real....Mary

PS: Maybe at @Eternally Grateful can help you un-twist your twisting of Scripture since she "liked" your post

Keeping it real?

In John 6 Jesus said to stop seeking for food which perishes (you have to eat it over and over) but seek for food which endures to eternal life (you only have to eat once) which he will give you.

You all eat the Eucharist like manna, You eat and eat and eat. Yet you still are not assured you will not die. That's not the bread Jesus spoke of in John 6.

Jesus also said in john 6 its the spirit who gives life the words he speaks is spirit and it is life.

Its the gospel that Jesus is telling us to ear, to gnaw and chew on, so we do not get it wrong. Not some wafer and cup of wine or grape juice.

Your the one twisting my friend. Not EG. EG just takes Jesus literally. Sadly. Your churhc stopped doing that in the 3rd century, then you get mad at people who do not agree with you because your power collapsed and they could finally seek truth.

Don;t get mad at us. get mad at your leaders who twisted the word of God

 

[Marymog]

Hold on. John 6 was not the last supper. In John 6. Jesus said whoever ate this bread will live forever.

At the last supper. Jesus said eat often, and no promise of eternal life was given



Keeping it real?

In John 6 Jesus said to stop seeking for food which perishes (you have to eat it over and over) but seek for food which endures to eternal life (you only have to eat once) which he will give you.

You all eat the Eucharist like manna, You eat and eat and eat. Yet you still are not assured you will not die. That's not the bread Jesus spoke of in John 6.

Jesus also said in john 6 its the spirit who gives life the words he speaks is spirit and it is life.

Its the gospel that Jesus is telling us to ear, to gnaw and chew on, so we do not get it wrong. Not some wafer and cup of wine or grape juice.

Your the one twisting my friend. Not EG. EG just takes Jesus literally. Sadly. Your churhc stopped doing that in the 3rd century, then you get mad at people who do not agree with you because your power collapsed and they could finally seek truth.

Don;t get mad at us. get mad at your leaders who twisted the word of God

Your response has absolutely NOTHING to do with how you combined 2 different quotes from Jesus that were MONTHS apart. But Protestant's MUST twist Scripture to fit their "truth". How sad.

Would you care to address how you combined a quote from 29AD with a quote on a totally different subject from 30AD? Or will you continue to obfuscate?

Jesus FIRST told us we must eat his body and drink his blood in John 6.

He then SHOWED us how to do it at The Last Supper.

A great teacher he was...he told us what to do and then showed us how to do it.

Paul asked you EG: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? YOU say it isn't. The Church says it is. The Church agrees with Paul. Don't get mad at The Church when it agrees with Paul!

How do you commune the body and blood of Christ EG?

Curious Mary

LATE EDIT: EG, I just realized YOU did not combine the quotes. @Pearl did so I rescind that question to you and I apologize for getting this conversation mixed up.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your response has absolutely NOTHING to do with how you combined 2 different quotes from Jesus that were MONTHS apart. But Protestant's MUST twist Scripture to fit their "truth". How sad.

I just quoted what jesus said in John 6.

Your the one that tries to make both passages speak of the same thing not me

I am not the one twisting here my friend.

Would you care to address how you combined a quote from 29AD with a quote on a totally different subject from 30AD? Or will you continue to obfuscate?

Jesus FIRST told us we must eat his body and drink his blood in John 6.

He then SHOWED us how to do it at The Last Supper.

A great teacher he was...he told us what to do and then showed us how to do it.

Paul asked you EG: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? YOU say it isn't. The Church says it is. The Church agrees with Paul. Don't get mad at The Church when it agrees with Paul!

How do you commune the body and blood of Christ EG?

Curious Mary

Would you care to address why you are refering to the bread of life given in John 6 where jesus said whoever eats it will not die. Has eternal life. Where jesus claims in fact it is the words he speaks through the spirit which gives life, And will be risen and claim it is the same bread that Jesu said take often in remembrance of me. Yet no promise whatsoever of eternal life to whoever eats that particular bread 9physical)

Paul did not ask me anything

I take Jesus at his word. Why do you not?

I ate the bread that Jesus promised I could eat and never die almost 4 decades go, and i have never hungered or thirsted for eternity again and never wil

Why do you keep eating and drinking, better yet why do you continue to hunger and thirst when jesus said you would never hunger or thirst again? Why do you keep taking it when you are not assured you will even make it to heaven?

Now this. This is enough to make a question you. Don’t get mad at us when we do.

 

[Marymog]

Hold on. John 6 was not the last supper. In John 6. Jesus said whoever ate this bread will live forever.

I am so embarrased....I do know that and somehow got my statement wrong. You are right. The bread of life discourse is in John 6 and The Last Supper is in other books. My mistake.

 

[Marymog]

In John 6 Jesus said to stop seeking for food which perishes (you have to eat it over and over) but seek for food which endures to eternal life (you only have to eat once) which he will give you.

You are correct. Stop seeking FOOD, which perishes. He then gave us the "food" that will never perish; His flesh/blood. What did Jesus do to SHOW you how to eat His flesh/blood EG? (hint: last supper)

He TOLD you to do it and then SHOWED you how to do it. He is a great teacher.....for those that care to listen.

Hmmmm.....if jesus told me to stop seeking food which perishes does that mean I can't eat my Dorito's anymore?

 

[Marymog]

Would you care to address why you are refering to the bread of life given in John 6 where jesus said whoever eats it will not die. Has eternal life. Where jesus claims in fact it is the words he speaks through the spirit which gives life, And will be risen and claim it is the same bread that Jesu said take often in remembrance of me. Yet no promise whatsoever of eternal life to whoever eats that particular bread 9physical)....

HUH??????????????

The words he speaks are the body/blood we are to consume??????? What does that even mean???? When did that heretical teaching start and who taught it to you????? I think you are saying that reading the bible is the same as consuming His body/blood. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING????

Would you care to address how 1 Corinthians 11:16; 27 equates to reading the bible?

Curious Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am so embarrased....I do know that and somehow got my statement wrong. You are right. The bread of life discourse is in John 6 and The Last Supper is in other books. My mistake.

That was not my complain Nor my disagreement, so this is nothing but a mocking post.

You should be ashamed.