Catholic issues

[Marymog]

yes we agree

so why do you weekly take this flesh that gives eternal life to ALL who eat it. Yet are being told you still may not have eternal life?

For 2,000 years Christians have taken His flesh that gives eternal life to all who eat it because He told us to take and eat ( Matthew 26:17-30; Mark 14:12-25; Luke 22:7-20; and John 13:1-30). That is "why" we do what he told us to do. Do you?

No, you are wrong. I am not 'being told we still may not have eternal life'. The Church teaches what Jesus told us. He told us we WILL have eternal life when we eat his body and drink His blood (John 6). That is not the only thing we must do though. It is not the simple act of eating/drinking. There is more to it than that. That is just ONE of the many things we must do.

Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good morning EG.

Water was used when Jesus was baptized, and the Spirit came upon Him.

Jesus teaches Nicodemus that he must be born again, or from above, which is accomplished through “WATER and the SPIRIT.“

When Jesus finished these words what was the first thing he did? He went down with his disciples and baptized new converts with WATER in the Jordan (Jn 4:1-2).

Peter stood up at Pentecost and said, “Repent, and be baptized (WATER) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy SPIRIT“ (Acts 2:38).

Peter also says “Baptism now saves you“ (1 Pet 3:21), and Paul is told “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16), and Paul writes that we are saved “by the washing of regeneration (WATER) and renewal in the Holy SPIRIT“ (Titus 3:5).

That is what Scripture says. YOU have been taught that it has to do with "First birth" or being born. No where at no point EVER does Scripture equate those two. If what you have been taught to you by your men were true then why would Jesus need to stipulate that biological birth is a condition for heaven when all those hearing his message were already born? That seems pedantic.

Mary

once again

Where did Jesus use the word baptized in John 3.

Jesus explained to him that he must be born again. water and spirit. that which is born of flesh (water) is flesh, that which is born of spirit (spirit) is spirit.

then he went on to tell him HOW TO BE BORN AGAIN.

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man b]">[b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

so once again. Can you please show me the word baptize? Why, if it was so important did jesus leave the word baptize out?

I did not ask about other passages so I will defer to answering about those passages at this time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Huh.... That's your answer to my very direct question??????????????????

we are discussion john 6. You answer my question first.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For 2,000 years Christians have taken His flesh that gives eternal life to all who eat it because He told us to take and eat ( Matthew 26:17-30; Mark 14:12-25; Luke 22:7-20; and John 13:1-30). That is "why" we do what he told us to do. Do you?

Yes, I take communion all the time. But never have I been told. or think that I will get eternal life from taking that bread and wine..Nore would I even think so. because when jesus instituted the command of eating often in rememberance of him, He did not tell us so we may live forever, never die, never hunger or thirst. So I would not assume that it did

No, you are wrong. I am not

'being told we still may not have eternal life'. The Church teaches what Jesus told us. He told us we WILL have eternal life when we eat his body and drink His blood (John 6). That is not the only thing we must do though. It is not the simple act of eating/drinking. There is more to it than that. That is just ONE of the many things we must do.

Mary

You just contradicted yourself. You claim you are not being told that. Yet in the same paragraph. Say you have to do more. so in fact. You can eat. and still not recieve eternal life.

Read john 6. Jesus did not say do this and that and all these things and you will not die

He said whoever eats will not die. period.

Now you can believe what you want. But I pray you look deep inside and see what you are really saying here

 

[Marymog]

It cannot possibly be ordinary H2O which has no spiritual power. But we do know that the Gospel is "the power of God unto salvation" (Rom 1:16) and that is exactly what Peter (who was never a bishop of Rome) tells us. Peter tells us that this "water" is is fact the Word of God, as presented in the Gospel (1 Peter 1:23-25): Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

Yup, you are right. Ordinary H2O has no Spiritual power.

Did the act of Moses holding his hands up have spiritual power (Exodus 17:11)? Did a dirt and spit mixture have spiritual power (John 9)? Does oil have spiritual power (James 5, Mark 6)? Did the handkerchiefs or aprons that touched Paul have spiritual power (Acts 19)? Can you see how your statement, that you thought was going to nullify 2,000 years of Christian teaching/practice, is nonsensical?

Your 1 Peter 1:23-25 reference has absolutely NOTHING to do with baptism or water baptism however you use it to tickle my ear and twist scripture to your own destruction.

It is odd that you didn't even reference the part of 1 Peter that ACTUALLY has to do with water baptism..... Eight persons were saved through water and baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you. Why didn't you quote that vs?

Keeping it real with Scripture....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Yes, I take communion all the time. But never have I been told. or think that I will get eternal life from taking that bread and wine..Nore would I even think so. because when jesus instituted the command of eating often in rememberance of him, He did not tell us so we may live forever, never die, never hunger or thirst. So I would not assume that it did

Jeus said to the men that EG follows I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The men that EG follows then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Later on Jesus then showed EG's men how to "eat his flesh" (Matthew 26:17-30; Mark 14:12-25; Luke 22:7-20; John 13:1-30). But they still didn't believe Him.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, I take communion all the time. But never have I been told. or think that I will get eternal life from taking that bread and wine..Nore would I even think so. because when jesus instituted the command of eating often in rememberance of him, He did not tell us so we may live forever, never die, never hunger or thirst. So I would not assume that it did

You just contradicted yourself. You claim you are not being told that. Yet in the same paragraph. Say you have to do more. so in fact. You can eat. and still not recieve eternal life.

Read john 6. Jesus did not say do this and that and all these things and you will not die

He said whoever eats will not die. period.

Now you can believe what you want. But I pray you look deep inside and see what you are really saying here

I have read John 6 and VS 58 almost literally DOES say "do this and that and all these things and you will not die". But there is more to Scripture, and how to not die (be saved), than just John 6. Why are you so stuck on John 6 as being the proof text on how one obtains eternal salvation? Scripture makes it clear that there are many things we must do to be saved. Participating in communion is NOT the only thing we must do. Just like obeying 5 of the ten commandments. If you only obey 5, will you be saved? If you only "eat", and ignore everything else Scripture says about how to be saved, will you be saved? Of course not. There are many things that Scripture says we must do to be saved: John 3:5 and 16, Acts 16:31 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, Luke 12:8, Romans 2:6 and 5:9 etc etc


I am not sure how what I said is contradictory. We were talking about what is written in John 6. I never said John 6 was the ONLY way to obtain eternal salvation. Scripture makes it clear eating His body and drinking His blood is ONE of the ways to obtain eternal salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jeus said to the men that EG follows I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The men that EG follows then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Later on Jesus then showed EG's men how to "eat his flesh" (Matthew 26:17-30; Mark 14:12-25; Luke 22:7-20; John 13:1-30). But they still didn't believe Him.

sorry.

EG believes Jesus.

Jesus did not contradict himself later by telling them how to eat his flesh. He told them in his converstion with him. It is the spirit who gives LIFE, the words he speaks are spirit and they are life. He told us what the things was that gives life. and told us to gnaw and chew on those words if we want to have eternal life.. Peter understood hime, proven by the fact he said, You have the WORDS of eternal life.

You don't tell someone. If you do this, You will never die

then later tell them to do this continually. and maybe you wont die

Marymog has Jesus contradicting himself. then mocking EG by saying EG did not believe Jesus, When in fact, it is Marymog who in fact does not believe him

Instead of tryign to mock EG and telling EH what he is doing. Maybe Marymog can just look at what Jesus said as a whole. and see how she is contradicting not only Jesus but herself. then trying to JUDGE EG as not believing Jesus when EG takes him literally as speaking the truth

whoever eats this bread will LIVE FOREVER!

EG believed he ate that bread when he gnawed and chewed on the words of Jesus and the apostles and recieved the bread of life. and partook of it, SO he will never die as Jesus promised

Marymog keeps taking this so called flesh over and over and over, Yet she does not believe that she will never die. Her eternal destination is still based on what SHE must do. Not what Christ did. she the flesh she eats over and over has no power of life.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, I take communion all the time.

Why do you take communion all the time if it's just symbolic?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have read John 6 and VS 58 almost literally DOES say "do this and that and all these things and you will not die". But there is more to Scripture, and how to not die (be saved), than just John 6. Why are you so stuck on John 6 as being the proof text on how one obtains eternal salvation? Scripture makes it clear that there are many things we must do to be saved. Participating in communion is NOT the only thing we must do. Just like obeying 5 of the ten commandments. If you only obey 5, will you be saved? If you only "eat", and ignore everything else Scripture says about how to be saved, will you be saved? Of course not. There are many things that Scripture says we must do to be saved: John 3:5 and 16, Acts 16:31 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, Luke 12:8, Romans 2:6 and 5:9 etc etc


I am not sure how what I said is contradictory. We were talking about what is written in John 6. I never said John 6 was the ONLY way to obtain eternal salvation. Scripture makes it clear eating His body and drinking His blood is ONE of the ways to obtain eternal salvation.

lol

thank you for admitting you do not take Jesus at his word.

Jesus said whoever eats this bread will live forever.

He did NOT give or make any other requirements or any other conditions. other than eating that bread which endures forever. (the same discussion he had with the woman at the well, when he said if she would have asjed he woukld have given her living water flowing to eternal life. and in John 3, when he said whoever believes in him will never DIE (same words) but has eternal life (will live forever)

you wan to try to earn your salvation like the jews did. feel free.

But you have failed to convince me you take jesus words seriously. You put to many conditions jesus never made..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why do you take communion all the time if it's just symbolic?

why did I get baptised
Why do I go to church? (assemble together)
Why do I pray without ceasing
Why do I do things jesus has asked me to do?

Because Jesus asked me to do him and out of love and respect for him, I do it

Why do you take the eucharist. when it does not even give the one who eats it what Jesus promised?

And don't say it does. You have already admitted it only does if conditions, which Jesus never made, are met,

 

[Marymog]

sorry.

EG believes Jesus.

Jesus did not contradict himself later by telling them how to eat his flesh. He told them in his converstion with him. It is the spirit who gives LIFE, the words he speaks are spirit and they are life. He told us what the things was that gives life. and told us to gnaw and chew on those words if we want to have eternal life.. Peter understood hime, proven by the fact he said, You have the WORDS of eternal life.

You don't tell someone. If you do this, You will never die

then later tell them to do this continually. and maybe you wont die

Marymog has Jesus contradicting himself. then mocking EG by saying EG did not believe Jesus, When in fact, it is Marymog who in fact does not believe him

Instead of tryign to mock EG and telling EH what he is doing. Maybe Marymog can just look at what Jesus said as a whole. and see how she is contradicting not only Jesus but herself. then trying to JUDGE EG as not believing Jesus when EG takes him literally as speaking the truth

whoever eats this bread will LIVE FOREVER!

EG believed he ate that bread when he gnawed and chewed on the words of Jesus and the apostles and recieved the bread of life. and partook of it, SO he will never die as Jesus promised

Marymog keeps taking this so called flesh over and over and over, Yet she does not believe that she will never die. Her eternal destination is still based on what SHE must do. Not what Christ did. she the flesh she eats over and over has no power of life.

EG,

Now I see where the men who have taught you have taught you wrong. Trogo is a graphic term meaning “to chew on” or to “gnaw on”—as when an animal is ripping apart its prey. Trogo is the Greek word used in John 6. So Jesus LITERALLY meant eat his flesh. The men Jesus was talking to understood this. They were thinking cannibalism. That is why they walked away. Your men have twisted that into eating His words. But, Jesus being the great teacher that he was, then SHOWED us at the last supper how to eat His flesh. He told us and then he showed us. He is a great teacher for those that have eyes and ears to learn.

 

[Marymog]

He did NOT give or make any other requirements or any other conditions......

He (Scripture) has MANY requirements/conditions. The Church follows all of them.

 

[Marymog]

why did I get baptised
Why do I go to church? (assemble together)
Why do I pray without ceasing
Why do I do things jesus has asked me to do?

Because Jesus asked me to do him and out of love and respect for him, I do it

Why do you take the eucharist. when it does not even give the one who eats it what Jesus promised?

And don't say it does. You have already admitted it only does if conditions, which Jesus never made, are met,

FOR THE LAST TIME: The Eucharist DOES give the one who eats it what Jesus promised. The Church teaches and practices that. YOU AND YOUR MEN DON'T. But that is NOT the ONLY thing we must do. Jeus DID make other conditions. Stop looking at John 6 ONLY and read the entire bible kiddo.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG,

Now I see where the men who have taught you have taught you wrong. Trogo is a graphic term meaning “to chew on” or to “gnaw on”—as when an animal is ripping apart its prey. Trogo is the Greek word used in John 6. So Jesus LITERALLY meant eat his flesh. The men Jesus was talking to understood this. They were thinking cannibalism. That is why they walked away. Your men have twisted that into eating His words. But, Jesus being the great teacher that he was, then SHOWED us at the last supper how to eat His flesh. He told us and then he showed us. He is a great teacher for those that have eyes and ears to learn.

lol.. I see you are buying what you have been told. and not looking at it as a whole

Jesus used the word to tell us this is so important, he does not want us just to taste it. But to gnaw and chew on it.

The people who followed him was just fed the day before. they were tasting jesus and his ministry and what he said. He told them flat out. You seek me not for me, but because you want to get fed. DON"T seek for food which perishes (physical food) but for food which endures to eternal life, which he will give you

he called this food

1. Bread from heaven - (one can eat and not die)
2. Something you can eat and drink - (drink and eat and you will never hunger or thirst meaning you do not have to take it over and over and over)
3. His flesh and blood (again, eat and drink you will not die, live forever. and have eternal life
4. The words he speaks (which truly gives life) remember he also said whoever sees and believes.

He is telling them not to taste him (miracles) but to gnaw and chew on his words. so you can completely understand him. Failure to do so could be eternally fatal.

ps. I got the words gnaw and chew from you catholics. Your the only people who use it. I just studied what you told me in context. and determined what Jesus was truly saying, As we are commanded, test the spirit or words of everyone.

I did that.

your eucharist does not have the characteristics of what Jesus said. Because you eat and drink, yet still hunger and thirst (if you do not,. why keep taking it) You eat and you drink, Yet you can still die, and are not assured you will be raised on the last day. You also keep taking food which perishes, not food which endures to eternal life. (if it did not perish, you would never have to eat it again)

I pray you really think hard on that last sentence. Why does your eucharist perish. hence the need to keep eating when jesus said the food he came to give does not perish but endured forever.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He (Scripture) has MANY requirements/conditions. The Church follows all of them.

those are commands

not requirements, making them requirments makes it a salvation by works. As paul said works cancels out grace. You can not have it both. you can only have one or the other

God gave the jews many commands. They were not requirements. The law never saved anyone

The sacraments will never save anyone.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

FOR THE LAST TIME: The Eucharist DOES give the one who eats it what Jesus promised.

IT DOES NOT GIVE WHAT JESUS PROMISED

Whether you see it or not is not up to me.. You can only believe what you want.

The Church teaches and practices that. YOU AND YOUR MEN DON'T. But that is NOT the ONLY thing we must do. Jeus DID make other conditions. Stop looking at John 6 ONLY and read the entire bible kiddo.

Kiddo?

Listen here kiddo. Your the one calling Jesus a liar. Not me

Jesus did not tell them if you eat the bread I give you and get baptized and go to confession, and do this and that and all this other stuff. You will not die

He said whoever eats the bread that I will give he will not die PERIOD

I believe him. I only pray that you will one day also

 

[Enoch111]

Can you see how your statement, that you thought was going to nullify 2,000 years of Christian teaching/practice, is nonsensical?

No. But your comparisons do not address the issue. You have refused to believe that the "water" is the Word of God, even those Peter told you that it is so.

 

[theefaith]

Water refers to water

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The required outward sign of washing that causes the inward washing of the blood of Jesus and makes us a new creation in Christ with sanctifying grace

Titus 3:5
Wash
Acts 22:16
Wash
Jn 3:22 wash

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Water refers to water

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The required outward sign of washing that causes the inward washing of the blood of Jesus and makes us a new creation in Christ with sanctifying grace

Titus 3:5
Wash
Acts 22:16
Wash
Jn 3:22 wash

yep water

every seen a woman who gives birth. Their water breaks

This is called being born in the flesh.

One must be born again though

there is water/flesh birth, and there is spirit birth.

I believe Nicodemus understood, because jesus told him how to be born again. Through faith in the fact Jesus will be lifted up.

Why can't you see it?