The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

[Ferris Bueller]

Now the question for YOU to answer: Was it Jesus who wanted to give <them closeness to God> and was it they or the Law that <prevented them from having closeness to God>?

If one wants to worship God according to the old covenant they are required by law to keep the various limitations of distance and separation from God. The new covenant of faith in Christ sets those aside and brings the worshiper near to God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In other words, Ferris Bueller keeps <the true sabbath rest - rest from the slavery of sin>, while anyone who believes the <literal Sabbath> is in slavery to sin. Marvellous guy!

I've never said such a thing. (What number is the one about bearing false witness?)

If you've been paying attention you'll know that I plainly say the person who believes in Christ has entered into rest from sin. And that's what makes it unnecessary for the believer to keep the literal sabbath. They can if they want. Just as long as it's not for the purpose of trying to be justified.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And yet the anti Sabbath folk seldom fail to use Hebrews 4 as proof against Sabbath keeping, using Joshua's 'rest' as evidence the literal Sabbath is now defunct.

The point is there remains a rest to be entered into above and beyond entering into Joshua's rest. Remember, the author is speaking the warning to people who are at that very moment residing in Joshua's rest. A sabbath rest remains for them to enter into. The author is warning them to make sure they have entered into that rest and not be like the Israelites who disobeyed and refused to enter into Joshua's rest.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And yet the anti Sabbath folk

And just to be clear I'm not anti-sabbath. What I resist is the belief that you HAVE to keep the literal sabbath like one has to keep 'do not murder', or 'do not steal'. I believe that a sabbath observance is useful for what the Bible says the old covenant observances were - illustrations of unseen truth. As long as a person is not keeping a literal sabbath in order to be justified I'm good with it. As I've said, if I could find a church that observes the sabbath for the right reasons and didn't elevate it to the moral equivalence of 'do not murder' I'd attend.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The fulfillment of the 4th commandment is what is in dispute.

When we enter into rest from our work of sin we enter into God's ordained 'day' of rest.

<The fulfillment of the 4th commandment is what is in dispute. . When we ......> you have lost it - already! <When we,,> and you're way off track summarily. NO ONE, no MAN can or ever will <fulfil the 4th commandment>.
"The Seventh Day IS - IS - IS - the Sabbath OF - OF - OF - THE LORD GOD". The Sabbath was made for - for - for - man", but is NOT NOT NOT man's Sabbath; it is the LORD'S "HOLY - SEPARATED - RESERVED THE LORD'S EXCLUSIVELY: "MADE: made available: FOR: man".
God not only, only fulfils his Sabbath, BUT GOD ONLY, IS The Fulfilment of the Sabbath.
The only 'thing' that makes the Sabbath Day anything in particular, is that it is this day anything of becomes knowable and understandable and practical and DO-ABLE for man and becomes 'keep-able' and 'observe-able' for man, IS BECAUSE IT IS HOLY SPIRIT BREATHED AND WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD REVELATION – revealed in and through and for the sake of “The Man . the Son of Man . Lord of the Sabbath : Jesus: Son of God . God with us”.

Ok they say, his whole life long, but not in or by Him RISING FROM THE DEAD again!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I don't want to share why I believe to keep the Sabbath, it is too long and it would only draw more confusion. It just makes more sense to me to say ask. Pray and ask about these things.

An old SDA song I somehow remember, went, "Christ is the answer to my every prayer."

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The point is there remains a rest to be entered into above and beyond entering into Joshua's rest.

It is NOT <the point>, it is arbitrariness totally irrelevant.

 

[Brakelite]

And just to be clear I'm not anti-sabbath. What I resist is the belief that you HAVE to keep the literal sabbath like one has to keep 'do not murder', or 'do not steal'. I believe that a sabbath observance is useful for what the Bible says the old covenant observances were - illustrations of unseen truth. As long as a person is not keeping a literal sabbath in order to be justified I'm good with it. As I've said, if I could find a church that observes the sabbath for the right reasons and didn't elevate it to the moral equivalence of 'do not murder' I'd attend.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand. God gives a Commandment, but you need to be convinced His command is 'moral' before you obey it?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Sacrifice and Ministry of Jesus changed it.
His sacrifice made it so we do not have to have a priesthood of Levites, and the laws that governed that priesthood, to offer sacrifices for a sin we no longer have because it has been atoned for through Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice.

I have finished ... no you with this have finished with me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is no category of "observant" believers or commandments. Believers are free to obey the 4th commandment or not. I make no demand such as "they have to obey it."

Now, now, be good. You know I mean 'have to obey' like one has to obey 'do not steal'.
You believe that a person has to keep sabbath just like they have to not murder and not steal, etc.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand. God gives a Commandment, but you need to be convinced His command is 'moral' before you obey it?

Yes, because that's what counts.
The obedience of how you treat people is what matters, not the sacrifice of your worship. The prophets delivered this message to the Israelites who thought their 'religious' doings were what counted, all the while they were murdering, and hating, and coveting, etc. Isaiah 1:13-17.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I do not have an "argument for the literal sabbath."

Yes, you do.
Your argument is that one must keep the literal sabbath in this new covenant. Just as we all agree that one must keep, for example, the command to 'do not covet'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Many times when remote tribes are found with Bibles they are already keeping the 7th-day Sabbath.

It's not forbidden. I mean, as long as you're not doing it in order to be justified.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The other two times God wrote with His own finger, there was no question about the gravity or purpose of His words.

And there was no question about the gravity and purpose of being circumcised, yet bye-bye it went in favor of the spiritual truth it represented.

Am I all caught up now with your posts?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If one wants to worship God according to the old covenant they are required by law to keep the various limitations of distance and separation from God. The new covenant of faith in Christ sets those aside and brings the worshiper near to God.

I didn't ask you this spinning.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I've never said such a thing. (What number is the one about bearing false witness?)

I said in other words. Obviously the shoe fitted your foot.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If you've been paying attention you'll know that I plainly say the person who believes in Christ has entered into rest from sin. And that's what makes it unnecessary for the believer to keep the literal sabbath. They can if they want. Just as long as it's not for the purpose of trying to be justified.

O great Rabbi

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

A sabbath rest remains for them to enter into. The author is warning them to make sure they have entered into that rest and not be like the Israelites who disobeyed and refused to enter into Joshua's rest.

Legalist! The author is encouraging the People with the FACTS of Jesus' Gospel.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And just to be clear I'm not anti-sabbath.

Who cares what you are? You only want to brag your arrogance.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

As long as a person is not keeping a literal sabbath in order to be justified

Cheeky nincompoop!