Spiritual Shepherding

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Nancy

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Oh, so many people go so, so catawampus convinced that God spoke to them and told them to do this or that. I know I did. Just ignore all that. If He wants to speak to you, you will not have to wonder if He did. Trust is the way to everything you want. It’s a race of trust. So everything you read, examine if you really do trust and believe it.

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

You see that in this passage, the testing of your trust is of utmost importance to God. And don’t forget - it says about Jesus, and He could not do many miracles there because of their lack of trust. I’ll say it again, trust is the way to everything you desire. It’s quite simple, really. The trusting what He has said He will do is your part. That’s your race.

"catawampus" lol...MUST be a "Maryland" saying, I just say "whackadoo" :D

Understood Jen,
Trust is key...and we just will never please Him without faith/trust. "I believe, help thou my unbelief"!! Of course I do believe and trust in Him yet, one word of complaint in my mind or out my mouth nullifies it all IMHO so, it is back to square one when that happens and, that is okay as, I'm still in the race!

"8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do." <---- THIS have been very convicting to me as, once we think we have something down pat...something else comes along to make you see yet some other possibility. MUST take eyes OFF self and on Him...all times.


 

Nancy

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Let’s be very accurate. Whackadoo leads to cattywampus, not the other way around.:D


adjective, adverb
US informal

US
/ˌkæt̬.əˈwɑːm.pəs/ UK
/ˌkæt.əˈwɒm.pəs/

(also cattywampus, US/ˌkæt̬.iˈwɑːm.pəs/ UK/ˌkæt.iˈwɒm.pəs/)

badly, awkwardly, or in the wrong direction:
The script is spoiled by its catawampus rhythms and its lack of consistency and plausibility.
I didn't need this, especially on a morning when everything else had already started out going cattywampus.

" whackadoo

  1. an eccentric or fanatical person.
    "he seems like a good guy even if he is a wackadoo"
Hmm...'I was going in the wrong direction (cattywampus.)
...and now I'm crazy (whackadoo)! Perhaps it can be BOTH ways HAHA!
 

amadeus

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To hear a man teach the gospel of Christ is so rare. It gives such hope of what He has prepared for us and that no one ever teaches, so it excites and spurs me on and boosts my trust. You cannot teach so well and not have been in His presence at least once, and not have it reach the ones who have seen something is very wrong in the institutional church. They will just immediately see, with horror, that something has been done to hold them back and keep them from more. You have made me weep and rejoice epi.
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"Jesus wept!"
 

stunnedbygrace

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So, back to spiritual shepherding, you know how I’ve shared with you guys my passions being dead now. Well, I just found something from someone who has shepherded me through the dark way of trust, a man I kept returning to at times for help. I just seemed to understand him, even if dimly, and get great encouragement from him that what I was going through was normal, not abnormal as I originally thought. Here is what I found that he says that matches what I’ve shared with you guys.

15.2. To achieve this liberation it was advantageous for the soul to depart in the dark night, that is, in the privation of all satisfactions and in the mortification of all appetites, as we mentioned. "My house being now all stilled" means that the house of all the appetites, the sensitive part of the soul, is now stilled, and the desires conquered and lulled to sleep. Until slumber comes to the appetites through the mortification of sensuality, and until this very sensuality is stilled in such a way that the appetites do not war against the spirit, the soul will not go out to genuine freedom, to the enjoyment of union with its Beloved.

When he says “the privation of all satisfactions” I understand him because at one point, God took me from my Bible, not that I would have shared that with anyone because I just knew they would have yelled at me.
But I tried and tried to keep picking it back up to receive some of the satisfactions I had previously had. But since He was insisting on the dark (to me) way of pure trust, every time I tried to read again it was useless. I no longer understood any of it as I previously thought I had. I could have just as well been reading it in Hebrew or Greek, that’s how bad it got. I eventually gave up trying and then He sometimes gave me remembrance of verses I’d read to help me not faint and sometimes gave them to me from someone else’s mouth. But the Bible itself was a closed book to me. He was making me trust even though I couldn’t see anything. Complete blackout. What I call the true fast in spirit.

I’m not saying or insisting He will take everyone the same exact way, but I share it in case He IS taking someone the same way and they are in distress because they cannot read, understand anything, see anything or even pray much. If that’s you, don’t try to push it, just sit there in the darkness of trust that He has placed you in because He is crucifying your flesh and you will see it later.
If you read and it just props up what needs to die by not being fed and not receiving any comfort or satisfaction, it’s a very good thing that He denies it to you.
 
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Nancy

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So, back to spiritual shepherding, you know how I’ve shared with you guys my passions being dead now. Well, I just found something from someone who has shepherded me through the dark way of trust, a man I kept returning to at times for help. I just seemed to understand him, even if dimly, and get great encouragement from him that what I was going through was normal, not abnormal as I originally thought. Here is what I found that he says that matches what I’ve shared with you guys.

15.2. To achieve this liberation it was advantageous for the soul to depart in the dark night, that is, in the privation of all satisfactions and in the mortification of all appetites, as we mentioned. "My house being now all stilled" means that the house of all the appetites, the sensitive part of the soul, is now stilled, and the desires conquered and lulled to sleep. Until slumber comes to the appetites through the mortification of sensuality, and until this very sensuality is stilled in such a way that the appetites do not war against the spirit, the soul will not go out to genuine freedom, to the enjoyment of union with its Beloved.

When he says “the privation of all satisfactions” I understand him because at one point, God took me from my Bible, not that I would have shared that with anyone because I just knew they would have yelled at me.
But I tried and tried to keep picking it back up to receive some of the satisfactions I had previously had. But since He was insisting on the dark (to me) way of pure trust, every time I tried to read again it was useless. I no longer understood any of it as I previously thought I had. I could have just as well been reading it in Hebrew or Greek, that’s how bad it got. I eventually gave up trying and then He sometimes gave me remembrance of verses I’d read to help me not faint and sometimes gave them to me from someone else’s mouth. But the Bible itself was a closed book to me. He was making me trust even though I couldn’t see anything. Complete blackout. What I call the true fast in spirit.

I’m not saying or insisting He will take everyone the same exact way, but I share it in case He IS taking someone the same way and they are in distress because they cannot read, understand anything, see anything or even pray much. If that’s you, don’t try to push it, just sit there in the darkness of trust that He has placed you in because He is crucifying your flesh and you will see it later.
If you read and it just props up what needs to die by not being fed and not receiving any comfort or satisfaction, it’s a very good thing that He denies it to you.

"If you read and it just props up what needs to die..."

His withdrawing and letting us see those verses that condemn us stings. I do understand it is for only awhile and is necessary to die to self in every single way. Sure does not feel very good at the time though.

Too bad the (in general) church's do not teach the "hard sayings". Seems it is up to us to seek and study diligently IF and when the Holy Spirit gives us the ability. We must kill our own flesh either way.

Thanks sister, much needed wise words, thanks for sharing and being open.
 
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Nancy

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Hey Nancy, I am fully convinced that safety with the Lord revolves around being humble and fearing the Lord. It is when we deviate from that path of righteousness that we get in trouble. Men would have us to abandon the righteous path in order to grasp at the promises of the higher walk. Very few will experience the higher walk...and we never will experience that walk as long as we claim to be already walking in it.

It would be like needing a job yet being told by our councilors that we should tell everyone that we already have a job. When a potential employer asks us if we need a job...we are indoctrinated to say "No thanks, I already have one." So the employer moves off and you remain unemployed. That is how I see the modern church set-up. Everyone is being taught how saved and fulfilled they are while they are yet carnal and in need of what only the deeper walk in Christ can provide.

Or else people are told to NOT lay down their lives as that is based on a gospel of works. So they only get the free stuff and never enter into the divine fellowship with God.

I'm not saying that I'm any more worthy than anyone else. I have had to learn...the hard way...that even to be counted with the humblest in the Body is still very good and desirable. So then even as we look up to God we remain small in our own estimation. :)

Hi Epi!
Yes, agreed that our safety around the Lord is all to do with humility and a healthy fear of Him. In and of myself, there is nothing at all to be "proud" of other than knowing Christ. Yet there is a pride that does not want others to see how weak I am in body and in spirit. IRL for instance, not being able to physically do things that used to be easy as pie! Pride will tell me to do it anyhow and, it just hurts me either physically or makes me angry that I cannot even hang dumb curtains without screwing up anymore!! So yes, that is pride that needs to go, and lack of patience waiting on Him to send me help in these areas.

Ah, that "higher walk"...pretty sure this girl is too small to walk that tall! I made a rhyme :D
The only thing that strikes fear into me is hearing "Be gone, I never knew you". So, if such heights must be reached...God Himself will have to place a pretty big ladder before me! lol.

Good post Epi

 

stunnedbygrace

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I guess then…my will was guided by my passions and now my sedated passions can no longer overtake and direct my will and so it seems to me I HAVE no will other than to be right where I am where God has placed me…

Oh wait…I understand this ever so slightly more this morning…since I saw I needed HIS love and saw trust was now not enough and there was something more I lacked, HIS love has emptied my own will (or emptied it more) and my will, in love, was lost for His will…because I DO have will, it just isn’t stirred to any former things. My will is now to sit in this…empty peacefulness. It really does seem to me my will died but…it is instead focused on…only one thing. Except, it isn’t really focused so much as just silent and peaceful because what it wants is…unknowable, so there really isn’t any known thing TO focus on with will.
I’m sure that sounds insane but there it is.
 
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Lambano

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Oh wait…I understand this ever so slightly more this morning…since I saw I needed HIS love and saw trust was now not enough and there was something more I lacked, HIS love has emptied my own will (or emptied it more) and my will, in love, was lost for His will…because I DO have will, it just isn’t stirred to any former things. My will is now to sit in this…empty peacefulness. It really does seem to me my will died but…it is instead focused on…only one thing. Except, it isn’t really focused so much as just silent and peaceful because what it wants is…unknowable, so there really isn’t any known thing TO focus on with will.
I’m sure that sounds insane but there it is.
Maybe He'll fill the emptiness with HIS love so that you can give it to others. Just speculating. I suspect He has a vocation for you to be revealed in His good time that will fill you. A vocation filled with love sounds pretty good.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Maybe He'll fill the emptiness with HIS love so that you can give it to others. Just speculating. I suspect He has a vocation for you to be revealed in His good time that will fill you. A vocation filled with love sounds pretty good.

Well…I think the point is that He DID give me His love (or at least as much as I was able to receive with my passions now calmed by Him), because how could He have touched my will in this manner otherwise?
Trust emptied my passions eventually so they stopped their war.
Wouldn’t love empty my will then so it would stop it’s war too?
Maybe I need to just sit here and shut up…
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I believe I’ve entered that second dark night John speaks of. He says there’s a long period of calm following the first one (which is really a series of them over years rather than one long continuous night of the darkness of trust/fasting in spirit), in which you receive from God more facilely. I had 9+ months of that. I even doubted if I would enter the second night as he says not all do. But…I think it’s begun because while my passions are still subdued, I am now seeing such awful, sickening first motions toward/temptation inside me. So…greatly subdued but not dead. And I recall I did have the inkling fear all those enemies would return. They haven’t returned but they’re still…there. Subdued but there.

Here’s a part I don’t understand though - I can’t quite believe John (although I should since he’s been such an utterly accurate guide through this thus far) when he says the second night is far worse and painful than the first and that it’s like the difference between removing a fresh stain from clothing versus a long-standing stain that requires more vigor and strong lye to remove. I’m not believing it can be worse and more painful since I’ve accepted what I am (and others are) and am no longer in great impatience about it but am resigned to it and trust Him with it. John says the pain in this second night is feeling you aren’t doing anything for God but are just wasting time in this emptiness but…I don’t know, I guess I’ll see.

I do know I ignored and did not accept John on something to my great detriment, danger, and loss of time quite a few years ago. I remember willieT, on a different site, trying to get me to doubt and discard what I was so sure of then. He finally gave up and said, when or if this does not happen as you think and are so sure of, I will be here for you Jen. Salty old willieT had more discernment and caution than I did on it.
But here’s the thing, what I went through then, that great deception, is something John describes as happening in the second night, but with me it was in the first night, so…John can’t be taken strictly linearly always. Mostly, but not always.

Anyway, I’m back in the darkness of trust and in great hope since God has only ever done good for me.
 
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Nancy

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Oh wait…I understand this ever so slightly more this morning…since I saw I needed HIS love and saw trust was now not enough and there was something more I lacked, HIS love has emptied my own will (or emptied it more) and my will, in love, was lost for His will…because I DO have will, it just isn’t stirred to any former things. My will is now to sit in this…empty peacefulness. It really does seem to me my will died but…it is instead focused on…only one thing. Except, it isn’t really focused so much as just silent and peaceful because what it wants is…unknowable, so there really isn’t any known thing TO focus on with will.
I’m sure that sounds insane but there it is.

" Except, it isn’t really focused so much as just silent and peaceful because what it wants is…unknowable, so there really isn’t any known thing TO focus on with will.
I’m sure that sounds insane but there it is."

Sounds perfectly sane to me as, neither do I have a clue as to what to focus on BUT Christ as, He truly is everything my will wants but, that will of ours is stubborn as a mule...my SPIRIT wants Him, all of Him but, really have to fight to
focus on the unknowable"...which really is ... The Father. Yeah, "If we know Jesus, we know the Father". But then the difference between knowing and knowing OF, 2 different animals all together!
Feel out of my league here :eek:
 

stunnedbygrace

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" Except, it isn’t really focused so much as just silent and peaceful because what it wants is…unknowable, so there really isn’t any known thing TO focus on with will.
I’m sure that sounds insane but there it is."

Sounds perfectly sane to me as, neither do I have a clue as to what to focus on BUT Christ as, He truly is everything my will wants but, that will of ours is stubborn as a mule...my SPIRIT wants Him, all of Him but, really have to fight to
focus on the unknowable"...which really is ... The Father. Yeah, "If we know Jesus, we know the Father". But then the difference between knowing and knowing OF, 2 different animals all together!
Feel out of my league here :eek:

lol. How do you focus on what is unknowable to you…? Impossible! The only way is the darkness of trust. It’s dark specifically because what you are…grasping after is something you don’t know and have no relatable experience of and you’re going blindfolded and by a road you don’t know and hoping for what no eye has ever seen or ear heard or mind conceived of.
I am wanting to say to try to focus on that would be possessiveness and…would cast you backwards rather than forward…I’m firmly convinced the darkness of trust is the only way forward. Your mind or focusing it can’t really help you. It’s a race of trust, not a race of intellect.
 
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Nancy

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lol. How do you focus on what is unknowable to you…? Impossible! The only way is the darkness of trust. It’s dark specifically because what you are…grasping after is something you don’t know and have no relatable experience of and you’re going blindfolded and by a road you don’t know and hoping for what no eye has ever seen or ear heard or mind conceived of.
I am wanting to say to try to focus on that would be possessiveness and…would cast you backwards rather than forward…I’m firmly convinced the darkness of trust is the only way forward. Your mind or focusing it can’t really help you. It’s a race of trust, not a race of intellect.

Something got missed in the aim of my "focus" somehow. I'm all over the place with DSN! lol.

Yes, it IS impossible to focus on the "unknowable" yet, if we know Christ (Spiritually, not intellectually) then we CAN know Him..?

Philippians 3:10
10 "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"

John 14:17
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

You are correct that I" have no relatable experience" - of this measure, yet ;)...although I certainly DO have wholly relatable experience of Him doing a HUGE work from whence I started!!! Amen!

And yes, "blind trust" period. We either trust Him in ALL things or we do not...so we will journey much quicker the more we trust.

I think I'm at where you were awhile back "your flesh squirming on the cross" or, dying to ourselves FULLY. Seems there will be no end in this life...race on sister!

"I am wanting to say to try to focus on that would be possessiveness and…would cast you backwards rather than forward"

Not sure what you mean here.
Unless you mean going back to the A,B,C's...??

"and hoping for what no eye has ever seen or ear heard or mind conceived of."
Well, this is part of the hope that is in me.

If I thought it were a race of intellect, I would have dropped out LONG ago, lol!!!

TRUST MATTERS!!!!
 

marks

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I’ve accepted what I am (and others are) and am no longer in great impatience about it but am resigned to it and trust Him with it. John says the pain in this second night is feeling you aren’t doing anything for God but are just wasting time in this emptiness but…I don’t know, I guess I’ll see.
All things are working together for your good. And the one who seeks finds. To those who sit in darkness, a light has already shined.

Much love!
 
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