Biblically, when are we told that Christ is returning?

[ScottA]

Biblically, when are we told that Christ is returning? Many of the rapture theories hang on this understanding such that we have a number of views as to when the "Rapture" will occur associated with the return of Christ and His supposed second coming to establish His Kingdom on the earth where He will reign for 1,000 years.

I have started this topic so that the timing of Christs return can be discussed from a Biblical perspective with the associated passages that confirm the particular point of view taken.

The lynch pin for this discussion is around the various understandings of when the Tribulation associated with the 70th Week occurs.

Does Christ come soon, before the 70 the week? The Pre-trib view.

Does Christ Come at the mid point of the 70th week? The Mid-trib view.

Does Christ Come halfway through the second 3.5 year period of the 70th week? The Post-trib view.

The $64,000 question that needs to be answered is, "When is the Second Coming of Christ going to Happen?"

Knock yourselves out in answering this question.

Shalom

What is the Second Coming?

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." Hebrews 9:27-28​

When is the Second Coming?

"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you."

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation" Luke 17:20

"But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming." 1 Corinthians 15:23​

...The so called "Rapture" is personal.

 

[quietthinker]

Both of the scriptures you have referenced require much understanding as to what period of time that the are indicating. Perhaps you may like to shed some more light on what they are indicating as both scriptural passages cover a rather broad time period which has been troubles by recent "prophets" who have used these scriptures for their own ends.

Embedded in those scriptures are principles of which the unfolding reality will become clearer for God's people as the day approaches.
I also think it is futile to think that details of every move and blow throughout history can be deciphered from scripture.

It is enough for me to recognise that the time is closer than when I first believed. My heart has been birthed with a longing anticipation of the finality of this tribulation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Embedded in those scriptures are principles of which the unfolding reality will become clearer for God's people as the day approaches.
I also think it is futile to think that details of every move and blow throughout history can be deciphered from scripture.

It is enough for me to recognise that the time is closer than when I first believed. My heart has been birthed with a longing anticipation of the finality of this tribulation.

The question that needs to be understood, is: -

Are we experiencing the Great Tribulation, or simple Jacob's troubles that are occurring before the end of the visitation of the father's iniquities on the children of the third and the fourth age of Israel?​

 

[GEN2REV]

Biblically, when are we told that Christ is returning?

The Bible tells us exactly when Christ is coming.

Immediately after the Great Tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-30
Isaiah 13:9-10

On the Last Day of the world.
John 6:39-40, John 6:44, John 6:54, John 11:24, John 12:48

Immediately before God's Wrath destroys the entire world.
Zephaniah 1:14-16
Zephaniah 1:17-18

 

[quietthinker]

The question that needs to be understood, is: -

Are we experiencing the Great Tribulation, or simple Jacob's troubles that are occurring before the end of the visitation of the father's iniquities on the children of the third and the fourth age of Israel?​

I see the history of life on this planet as a Great Tribulation and Jacobs troubles are the personal internal battles of God's people.

 

[Enoch111]

I see the history of life on this planet as a Great Tribulation and Jacobs troubles are the personal internal battles of God's people.

It is never a good idea to allegorize what is in Scripture. And had you read the definition of the Great Tribulation, you would never have said what you did.

 

[Enoch111]

Are we experiencing the Great Tribulation, or simple Jacob's troubles...

Isn't is obvious that "Jacob's troubles" are for Jacob/Israel? And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [the Jews] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12;1). The ones written in the Book of Life will be delivered.

 

[quietthinker]

It is never a good idea to allegorize what is in Scripture. And had you read the definition of the Great Tribulation, you would never have said what you did.

Various generations from the Christians fed to the Lions in Rome or those who were hunted to death by Papal Rome at different times in Europe or those in the siege of Jerusalem in AD70 or those who were victims of the holocaust rolled out by Nazi Germany to mention a few, all would have considered their afflictions the Great Tribulation.

We need to take a broader look than we do and understand we live on a planet where the Devil has it in for us. Were it not for God's protection we would have long been wiped out.

 

[quietthinker]

Isn't is obvious that "Jacob's troubles" are for Jacob/Israel? And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [the Jews] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12;1). The ones written in the Book of Life will be delivered.

I have said this many times yet I will say it again. Israel as a political Nation are done for re being God's representatives. They rejected the very one all the Prophets pointed to. Jesus in tears finally said 'your house is left to you desolate'
It was a position they themselves nurtured through the centuries....now it bore fruit.....the fruit of having their special status removed or rather, removing themselves from it.

 

[Bob Estey]

Biblically, when are we told that Christ is returning? Many of the rapture theories hang on this understanding such that we have a number of views as to when the "Rapture" will occur associated with the return of Christ and His supposed second coming to establish His Kingdom on the earth where He will reign for 1,000 years.

I have started this topic so that the timing of Christs return can be discussed from a Biblical perspective with the associated passages that confirm the particular point of view taken.

The lynch pin for this discussion is around the various understandings of when the Tribulation associated with the 70th Week occurs.

Does Christ come soon, before the 70 the week? The Pre-trib view.

Does Christ Come at the mid point of the 70th week? The Mid-trib view.

Does Christ Come halfway through the second 3.5 year period of the 70th week? The Post-trib view.

The $64,000 question that needs to be answered is, "When is the Second Coming of Christ going to Happen?"

Knock yourselves out in answering this question.

Shalom

It seems to me Christ is already here, living inside each of us.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, prolly not the 666 guy right
(but one counted 667?)

Embedded in those scriptures are principles of which the unfolding reality will become clearer for God's people as the day approaches.
I also think it is futile to think that details of every move and blow throughout history can be deciphered from scripture.

It is enough for me to recognise that the time is closer than when I first believed. My heart has been birthed with a longing anticipation of the finality of this tribulation.

“secretly everyone is waiting for the end of the world”

 

[Robert Gwin]

Robert, when you speak of the Watchtower, what are you referring to?

My grandfather, I remember, would listen religiously to the Watchtower program on the radio around sixty years ago and even then the program was considered to be the bleating of crackpots who had been mislead by their "Prophets" into false teachings with respect to the End Times.

The arrival at 1914, as you suggest, as the year that God established His Everlasting Kingdom in Heaven does not fit with other Biblical prophecies and is based on dates around Babylonian activity and the 2520 years was derived from the number of days that were contained in seven years of 360 days and the application of a year for a day, however, the passing of the sun seven times can only be considered to be solar years such that the the "prophetic" time period should be considered to be much longer by up to 37 years.

I know from my own experience that it is so easy to jump to the wrong conclusions and that I have had to let go of my reasoning and allow God to actually reveal His truth to me. Now whether what has been revealed to me is subjective, its acceptance by others is subject to their understanding and not mine.

Around the time of the establishment of the Watchtower society, there was much delusion within the body of Christ, with many "wonderful" theories put forth that have mislead the church and the "resulting cults" badly.

It is my understanding that the JW denomination is one of those misguided "cults" that exists today even though there are some aspects of the denomination that are good and the JW's zeal for evangelising is one such example that the rest of the churches could adopt to their benefit.

Oh well Goodbye Robert.

In this case Jay, I was referring to the Watchtower magazine. I gave the reason why I believe the correctness of 1914.

You believe that God exists don't you Jay? Do you believe that only one group of people belong to God? If so, do you believe that God identifies them in His word the Bible?

 

[Jay Ross]

In this case Jay, I was referring to the Watchtower magazine. I gave the reason why I believe the correctness of 1914.

You believe that God exists don't you Jay? Do you believe that only one group of people belong to God? If so, do you believe that God identifies them in His word the Bible?

Robert, I have already pointed out in a previous post that the assumption that 1914 is the year that God established His everlasting Kingdom on the Earth is flawed in that the fourth and fifth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy had not come into view in that year and that the Seventh Bowl Judgement prophecy also told us the end of the 2,000 years plus period of the Land of Babylon lying Devastated and Desolated would end when the Land of Babylon would be remembered once more during the revelation of this Seventh Bowl Judgement.

However the translation your denomination uses is very different to, lets say, the New King James Bible. Below are the two translations: -

Revelation 16:17-21: - 17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. And a mighty shout came from the throne in the Temple, saying, "It is finished!" 18 Then the thunder crashed and rolled, and lightning flashed. And a great earthquake struck—the worst since people were placed on the earth. 19 The great city of Babylon split into three sections, and the cities of many nations fell into heaps of rubble. So God remembered all of Babylon's sins, and he made her drink the cup that was filled with the wine of his fierce wrath. 20 And every island disappeared, and all the mountains were leveled. 21 There was a terrible hailstorm, and hailstones weighing seventy-five pounds fell from the sky onto the people below. They cursed God because of the terrible plague of the hailstorm.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

Revelation 16:17-21: - 17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
NKJV​

We are, in reality arguing out of very different play books, and so can only come to very different conclusions. A more recent translation is this translation: -

Revelation 16:17-21: - 17 Finally the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying: "It is done!" 18 Then there were flashes of lightning, roaring, and crashes of thunder, and there was a tremendous earthquake - an earthquake unequaled since humanity has been on the earth, so tremendous was that earthquake. 19 The great city was split into three parts and the cities of the nations collapsed. So Babylon the great was remembered before God, and was given the cup filled with the wine made of God's furious wrath. 20 Every island fled away and no mountains could be found. 21 And gigantic hailstones, weighing about a hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people, but they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, since it was so horrendous.
(from The NET Bible®, Copyright © 1996-2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C., Dallas, Texas, www.bible.org. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)​

The NET Bible® translation is fairly in synch with the NKJB but it too is very different to the NLT which seems to me to be a translation that reflects the understanding of your denomination's contextual understanding more than that of God words/context given to John.

As such Robert, I do not believe that you are able to present a reasoned Biblical understanding on the topic of this thread.

Goodbye Robert.

PS: - as to your false argument and deflection from the topic making it a personal attack on my personhood, I do not believe that there is one special people group as you do that belong specifically to God as God desires all people from every People Group to be drawn to be within His Loving Embrace.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Biblically, when are we told that Christ is returning? Many of the rapture theories hang on this understanding such that we have a number of views as to when the "Rapture" will occur associated with the return of Christ and His supposed second coming to establish His Kingdom on the earth where He will reign for 1,000 years.

I have started this topic so that the timing of Christs return can be discussed from a Biblical perspective with the associated passages that confirm the particular point of view taken.

The lynch pin for this discussion is around the various understandings of when the Tribulation associated with the 70th Week occurs.

Does Christ come soon, before the 70 the week? The Pre-trib view.

Does Christ Come at the mid point of the 70th week? The Mid-trib view.

Does Christ Come halfway through the second 3.5 year period of the 70th week? The Post-trib view.

The $64,000 question that needs to be answered is, "When is the Second Coming of Christ going to Happen?"

Knock yourselves out in answering this question.

Shalom

When? When the Father chooses.
What we know for certain, despite all those false prophet types who claim to know the day and hour, and some made a fortune off of gullible people, Harold Camping, is of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only.

End of story.

 

[Jay Ross]

When? When the Father chooses.
What we know for certain, despite all those false prophet types who claim to know the day and hour, and some made a fortune off of gullible people, Harold Camping, is of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only.

End of story.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I agree that people have studied and written books on when the Second advent will occur but they have been searching with the wrong understanding and as such their deductions have been shown to be wrong because what they have claimed did not happen as they concluded it would.

However, God has given us clues as to when It will happen as an encouragement for us to hold onto so that we will not become delusional or fall away. His encouragement is for us to hold on in the hope that we believe in for the outcome that God has promised.

Shalom

 

[Oceanprayers]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I agree that people have studied and written books on when the Second advent will occur but they have been searching with the wrong understanding and as such their deductions have been shown to be wrong because what they have claimed did not happen as they concluded it would.

However, God has given us clues as to when It will happen as an encouragement for us to hold onto so that we will not become delusional or fall away. His encouragement is for us to hold on in the hope that we believe in for the outcome that God has promised.

Shalom

We can never fall away because Christ assured us, of all the Father gave him he will lose none, and no one will take us from his hand.

For 2000+ years people have sought signs of the second coming we are assured shall arrive in God's own time.
I live now, in the love and life of Christ.
God knows man and governments can make hell on earth and what can appear to be the end times.

And because faiths that ascribe to eschatological views are known by the powers that manipulate this world. And certainly, the signs can appear to come to pass because fear creates compliance to new rules that promise to assuage the fears for the low low price of freedoms and liberties. Or have we missed that tactic at this stage?

Why live looking for the end of days?

The only question that should cross our mind as the church is, when the actual signs of the 2nd coming do appear, are you ready?

OK then.
Live your God given life.
And let God make his own schedule as he wills. Not as we imagine.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

well, prolly not the 666 guy right
(but one counted 667?)

“secretly everyone is waiting for the end of the world”

Only the Goats are.
One waits for the Hellfire ? one works towards the Hellfire like a moth to the flame ?
You can be saved now ! People can be saved now as people have been in the past !
Once Saved always Saved.
In the end after the Hellfire is because the world chose the hard way to come to know God.
Christians should be strength of the people now, but what do we see, they go with the flow ? thinking that it's Gods will for the People to become degenerate and be lead into the Hellfire !
Then there are the Satanist that claim that they will be raptured up ? so they will not have to endure the Hellfire ? such are dupes. they will go through the Hellfire that they created and are seeking because they will reap what they have sown !
Only the Truly born again will be Saved ? their Soul will be saved but maybe not their flesh. so as a True Christian enters into the Hellfire one does not be fearful of ones Soul.

The so called Rapture is not your flesh, it's a Spiritual thing.
The Rapture is a dumbed down word for such, the real word starts with a P ?

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, well that was just a pop quote, dunno if theyre all goats?
maybe?

You believe that God exists

?
Yah does not "exist" wadr
i mean unless you got some "objective evidence?"

 

[bbyrd009]

My heart has been birthed with a longing anticipation of the finality of this tribulation.

i'm having the time of my life!

 

[quietthinker]

i'm having the time of my life!

I wonder if those circling Noah thought so too?