The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Oceanprayers]

Christ's ministry was still in the Old Covenant....so it was correct for Him and the Apostles to keep the 613 Mosaic Laws. No surprise. Things changed after the crucifixion and resurrection.
Today there is no sin to observe the Jewish Sabbath. But you still have to choose what style of Sabbath.
The Exodus Sabbath
The first Temple Sabbath
Or the second Temple Sabbath
Or the modern Sabbath

For example, are you going to sacrifice animals and where are you going to sacrifice animals?
The Exodus Sabbath included prayers at meals but they did not travel and did not include a lot of worship.
Are you going to cook on the Sabbath?
Are you going to go to a synagogue on the Sabbath?
Since we are Christians and it is not required we can pretty much observe it like we want. The definition of work changed through the different periods. In Exodus they could put wood on fire. During Christ time they were not suppose to....how does that relate to adjusting the thermostat?

As I said, the Apostles kept the Sabbath after Jesus ascension.
New Testament Sabbath keeping.

 

[Grailhunter]

As I said, the Apostles kept the Sabbath after Jesus ascension.
New Testament Sabbath keeping.

The Apostles were Jewish Christians...no surprise....we are not Jewish Christians.
There was no requirement for them to keep the Sabbath.
And there is no requirement for us to keep the Sabbath.
But that does not mean we can't observe the Sabbath.
We just got to pick which style.
Again reference the resolution at the council in Jerusalem, which pertained to Gentile-Christians.
That would be chapter 15 of acts and that chapter also outlines the harassment Paul was having to endure from the Judaizes that wanted Christians to observe the Law and traditions of the Jews.

 

[BarneyFife]

Then you're reading it wrong

How do I read it right?

 

[Oceanprayers]

How do I read it right?

You've already ignored that option.

 

[Enoch111]

As I said, the Apostles kept the Sabbath after Jesus ascension.

Unless you can show us a Scripture which actually says this, it is mere conjecture. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such Scripture. But there are several which show that the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) was observed by the apostles and early Christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

All you have to do to prove that is show where God, Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, changed the day.

Constantine changed the day of worship to Sunday. That's a matter of historic record.
Constantine, not God.

Constantine was emperor of Rome from 306-337A.D. He and the Council of Nicea changed Sabbath to Sunday .
The Papal Church made the day official in the Council of Laodicea A.D. 363-364.
As a point of note. Those who are adamantly opposed to the Papal church, i.e. the Roman's Catholic, while insisting Sunday is the day of Sabbath for Christians aren't following God's original decree. They're following the Roman's Papal church design.
Constantine was a sun worshiper before he was thought to have converted to the faith of the Christ.
Sunday=Sun-day.

Btw, the Sabbath relates to Jesus' crucifixion. For a reason.

I agree 100%, Roman Emperor Constantine changed the Sabbath day to Sunday, and made Sunday the day of rest "Law" in the Roman empire

Constatine is the father of Roman Catholicism, he donated the land (Vatican City) and he built St Peter's Basilica creating the (State Church) that he controlled

Emperor Constatine is the father of (Sun)day observance a fact

 

[Truth7t7]

If the law is eternal and unchangeable on what basis was 'an eye for an eye' abolished?

I've already posted scripture showing that the laws in "Ordinances" have been abolished, no need to run about the bush again, feel free to go back 2-3 pages an view my initial response

 

[Truth7t7]

Ya but none of this address the topic at hand. things change....if your wife cheats are you going to shoot her?

She will be put away if she is sexually unfaithful "Fornication"

You appear to suggest Gods words have changed, and 21st century society and laws are the driving force, I disagree

Gods words are unchanging, abortion is murder, homosexuality is unnatural sin, and like sexes cant marry, I dont care what society or governments state

 

[Grailhunter]

She will be put away is she is sexually unfaithful "Fornication"

You appear to suggest Gods words have changed, and 21st century society and laws are the driving force, I disagree

Gods words are unchanging, abortion is murder, homosexuality is unnatural sin, and like sexes cant marry, I dont care what society or governments state

I agree with things like abortion, murder, homosexuality and same sex marriages, sexual promiscuity as being sins.
But things do change
Between the Old and New Testament...you betcha
Well we probably are not going to sell our daughters as sex slaves.....they kind of frown on that now....calling it human trafficking. etc etc

We are probably not going to tell the slaves to be obedient to their masters.

And if you have a Bible with the word fornication in it, get a better Bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

And if you have a Bible with the word fornication in it, get a better Bible.

60 devout christian scholars, King James Bible, 411 years and going strong!

• PATRON
  • King James I
• TRANSLATION OVERSEER
  • Richard Bancroft
• COMMITTEE OF TWO
• COMMITTEE OF REVISERS
• FIRST WESTMINSTER COMPANY
• FIRST CAMBRIDGE COMPANY
• FIRST OXFORD COMPANY
• SECOND CAMBRIDGE COMPANY
• SECOND OXFORD COMPANY
• SECOND WESTMINSTER COMPANY
• TRANSLATOR
  • Thomas Sparke
• PRINTER
  • Robert Barker
• CONTRIBUTORS
  • (Illustrators, Geneologies, Maps, Etc.)
  • John Speed (Genealogies, Map)
  • Cornelis Boel (Artist/Engraver)
  • John More (Map)
  • Renold Elstrack (Engraver)
  • Hugh Broughton (Genealogies)

INTRODUCTION
At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.

One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:

The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)

For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've already posted scripture showing that the laws in "Ordinances" have been abolished...

Yes, which dissolves any basis for saying the sabbath law must be kept because the law of Moses is forever. It is forever, just not in it's literal form.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, which dissolves any basis for saying the sabbath law must be kept because the law of Moses is forever. It is forever, just not in it's literal form.

The 10 "Commandments" is not the law of "Ordinances" as you suggest, apples and oranges

Example: Food ordinances, pork etc, this was abolished as shown in the blanket dropped to Peter, slay and eat

 

[JohnPaul]

Adultery during the time of Jesus was given the penalty of death by stoning, the woman at the well was forgiven, Jesus abolished an eye for an eye

He didn't abolish the punishment for murder, rape and pedophilia.

 

[Truth7t7]

He didn't abolish the punishment for murder, rape and pedophilia.

It's my opinion and observation of scripture that the "Death Penalty" has been Abolished, I never stated "Punishment" has been abolished as you claim

Is there life in prison without parole being given to murderers, I believe so?

The eye for eye, tooth for tooth, would encompass the death penalty

Matthew 5:38-42KJV
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

 

[Truth7t7]

We are probably not going to tell the slaves to be obedient to their masters.

The Master/Servant relationship was nothing more than working and comparable to a job and a boss, A live in nanny would be an example of a servant/master relationship, the apprentice and the master craftsman another

Jesus Christ is the believers Master, and they are his servants

Your suggestion of down south in America with slaves in chains is unfounded, and yes many aspects of American slavery was an atrocity, pure evil

Just and Equal, living conditions and pay

Colossians 4:1KJV
1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The 10 "Commandments" is not the law of "Ordinances" as you suggest, apples and oranges

Example: Food ordinances, pork etc, this was abolished as shown in the blanket dropped to Peter, slay and eat

Dividing the law of Moses up by strength or weight of law is not the answer to whether or not we have to literally keep a law. We decide which laws remain to be literally kept and which ones don't have to be by whether or not Christ fulfilled them. So, for as important as the law of sabbath was (it gets emphatically reiterated several times in the law) that doesn't determine if we have to still keep that law literally or not. Whether or not Christ fulfilled it's requirements does. Just as, for example, the law that required 'life for life' was abolished (laid aside). So the importance and superiority of the sabbath law does not determine if you still have to literally keep it or not. The fact that it is fulfilled does.

Don't stop literally keeping the sabbath if you can't see what I'm saying. It's important that if you think you must keep a literal sabbath because you'd be sinning if you didn't then that is what you must do, for conscience sake.

 

[JohnPaul]

It's my opinion and observation of scripture that the "Death Penalty" has been Abolished, I never stated "Punishment" has been abolished as you claim

Is there life in prison without parole being given to murderers, I believe so?

The eye for eye, tooth for tooth, would encompass the death penalty

Matthew 5:38-42KJV
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Yes there is life imprisonment, all that does is waste the tax payers money and allows the murderer, rapist, pedophile to continue living, while their victims don't and the ones raped and child molested are mentally damaged and forced to live with it while their perpetrator continues to live a good life and taken care of in prison, three square meals a day, cable television and other programs they have in prison, they can even get degrees in Prison.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's my opinion and observation of scripture that the "Death Penalty" has been Abolished, I never stated "Punishment" has been abolished as you claim

That is right. Christ did not cancel the punishment of death required by the law. He fulfilled the law that required death, satisfying it's demands through his death on the cross. And through our faith in him his fulfillment of the law gets applied to us. That is how I view the sabbath law. It's demand for rest is satisfied through Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice and the giving of the Holy Spirit. So there's no need for me to try to accomplish something that is already done for me through my faith in Christ. I'm already at rest and in compliance with the law that demands rest through my faith in Christ, just as I'm already dead and in compliance with the law that demands death through my faith in Christ. Both laws have been 'abolished' (laid aside as unneeded) in Christ, not broken in Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

Dividing the law of Moses up by strength or weight of law is not the answer to whether or not we have to literally keep a law. We decide which laws remain to be literally kept and which ones don't have to be by whether or not Christ fulfilled them. So, for as important as the law of sabbath was (it gets emphatically reiterated several times in the law) that doesn't determine if we have to still keep that law literally or not. Whether or not Christ fulfilled it's requirements does. Just as, for example, the law that required 'life for life' was abolished (laid aside). So the importance and superiority of the sabbath law does not determine if you still have to literally keep it or not. The fact that it is fulfilled does.

Don't stop literally keeping the sabbath if you can't see what I'm saying. It's important that if you think you must keep a literal sabbath because you'd be sinning if you didn't then that is what you must do, for conscience sake.

The 10 commandments are alive and well, including the 7th day Sabbath, they have never been revoked or replaced

You can claim whatever you desire, it doesn't change the truth of Gods words below

Exodus 20:6KJV
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:21KJV
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Unless you can show us a Scripture which actually says this, it is mere conjecture. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such Scripture. But there are several which show that the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) was observed by the apostles and early Christians.

Conjecture? You don't know the NT any better than that?