• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4

[9]This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name, [10]your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. [11]Give us this day our daily bread [12]and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us. [13]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

The “daily bread” is not our earthly necessities. The “Daily Bread” is the Body of Jesus.

This part of the prayer is one sentence:
“Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33).

Jesus would never instruct us to pray for earthy necessities, as clear from His teachings throughout the bible. Example, sermon on the mount: “don’t worry about earthly needs, but seek God first…” (Matthew 6:31-33)

It is obviously implied to say the Lord’s Prayer “daily”. It would be disrespectful of us not to say it daily. Do you truly believe in Him when you’re not saying this prayer daily as He instructed?

You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life spiritually, by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer acknowledging the meaning of every word in it.

You might say, "what's the difference? as long as we pray the prayer." Oh there is a huge difference. Our spiritual communication with God is about what we mean. The words are meaningless unless we mean what they are in our hearts.

If you examine the original Aramaic version of this prayer, you’ll find two important facts:
1. No punctuation. Punctuation was added later in the translation. And in the case of this prayer, the translators made an error by adding a period between “…daily Bread” and “and forgive us…” There should be no punctuation there. Not because I said so, but because of all the Bible references (provided here below) that are consistent with that.

2. There were two words: “sins” and “trespasses”. “Sins” was used in reference to God. We trespass against humans, but we “sin” against God! Trespass is a soft word that lessens the significance of the offense, but when it comes to God, it is a deadly offense; proper word for it is “sins”. Jesus used the word “sins” throughout the scripture, not “trespasses”(example in John 9:41). So it’s not “… forgive us our trespasses…” It is “… forgive us our sins…”


Bible references supporting this:
“daily Bread” = Body of Jesus, not earthly necessities


1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

John 15:5
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.


John 6
The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.


Wording crafted by God Himself

Many Christians think, “surely Jesus gave us this prayer as an example. That He didn’t mean for us to repeat it daily!”

He did!!; He [God] Personally word-smithed the words perfectly. Exactly as He did throughout history. After the fall He taught Adam and Eve how to present a sacrifice fitting to Him, He crafted the Leviticus law to Moses that had to be followed precisely, and finally the Lord’s Prayer, which is the optimum method compared to previous covenants. It's a prayer that we say in our hearts once a day. It keeps us close to God, and fulfills John 5:24: "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."

After saying the Lord’s Prayer, the communication channels with God become wide open (through the Holy Spirit within us of course). Afterwards we can say our own prayers using our words, making our request known to God… And He will answer.

I can guess why this prayer is no longer recited daily (except occasionally at some sports games, as a tradition). It is because people are well provided for these days. And therefore, feel they don’t need to bother God by asking for the daily bread anymore (implying earthly necessities), as they have plenty of them now. And that is a sad fact of today’s people.

The other sad fact is, many people today equate earthly blessings to spiritual blessings - they drive up in their latest model SUVs to the biggest church in town… When it is the exact opposite. Having a lot of earthly riches actually equates to going to hell later (Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”"), unless God is truly in the center of our lives.

Accepting this Biblical-fact: that a true believer must pray the Lord’s Prayer daily may seem difficult at first. This is because most churches have brainwashed people for years into thinking “do nothing, nothing at all, just mark the front of your Bible with the date you were saved / born-again / etc.”. This daily prayer to God is not “works”. It is obedience of a true believer. No wonder there is no peace on earth yet (Luke 2:14). No one has been praying it properly.


Miracles happen when we pray the Lord’s Prayer

The moment we say this prayer we become "Righteous" in the eyes of God, and therefore become standing in the presence of God (through the Holy Spirit within us) (Luke 1:19, 1Kings 18:15).

A true believer can perform miracles at this moment.

This is how Jesus performed miracles:
Step 1: Forgive sins
Step 2: Miracle
Mark gave us a glimpse of this in Mark 2:5, 11, & 12. Without Step1, can’t do Step2.

So, for us it is:
Step 1: The Lord’s Prayer for the forgiveness of sins
Step 2: In the name of Jesus Christ… miracle

But without the main ingredient, faith, nothing can be done. Even Jesus Himself could not perform miracles where there was no faith among people of that town (Mark 6:5).

He instructed His followers; to perform miracles in His name (John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18, Mark 9:39).

Go ahead, start praying this prayer daily. And pray it again in the presence of someone in need of a miracle. And don't freak-out when the miracle happens, it would show lack of faith. Jesus said we can move mountains (Matthew 17:20), and that we will do greater miracles than the ones He did! That's right, that's what Jesus said in John 14:12-14. And also in Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

We are there now; much closer to the "last days" now than they were back when Acts was written. I believe praying the Lord's Prayer properly will usher-in this new generation of people as predicted in John and Acts.
 
Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@amadeus
Thank you sir :). Although a new member here, I have been studying the Bible for over 30 years. Read the Bible cover to cover over 60 times. Researching, meditating, and waiting on God for wisdom. He revealed to me many truths. This was one of them. I only recently saw it clearly that the daily Bread is the Body of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. And was like a big light came on in my head. Ever since I've been wanting desperately to get this message to other believers. I'm happy I found this website, and this forum. I have a few more God-revealed new truths I will be sharing in other posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,446
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@amadeus
Thank you sir :). Although a new member here, I have been studying the Bible for over 30 years. Read the Bible cover to cover over 60 times. Researching, meditating, and waiting on God for wisdom. He revealed to me many truths. This was one of them. I only recently saw it clearly that the daily Bread is the Body of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. And was like a big light came on in my head. Ever since I've been wanting desperately to get this message to other believers. I'm happy I found this website, and this forum. I have a few more God-revealed new truths I will be sharing in other posts.
Well, I am with you already on praying what is known as the Lord's prayer daily. I have doing that for many years with those words being my opening. I move on from there.

You will undoubtedly encounter opposition here, but not everyone will be against you. I will see you around the forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pearl

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4

[9]This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name, [10]your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. [11]Give us this day our daily bread [12]and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us. [13]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

The “daily bread” is not our earthly necessities. The “Daily Bread” is the Body of Jesus.

This part of the prayer is one sentence:
“Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33).

Jesus would never instruct us to pray for earthy necessities, as clear from His teachings throughout the bible. Example, sermon on the mount: “don’t worry about earthly needs, but seek God first…” (Matthew 6:31-33)

It is obviously implied to say the Lord’s Prayer “daily”. It would be disrespectful of us not to say it daily. Do you truly believe in Him when you’re not saying this prayer daily as He instructed?

You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life spiritually, by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer acknowledging the meaning of every word in it.

You might say, "what's the difference? as long as we pray the prayer." Oh there is a huge difference. Our spiritual communication with God is about what we mean. The words are meaningless unless we mean what they are in our hearts.

If you examine the original Aramaic version of this prayer, you’ll find two important facts:
1. No punctuation. Punctuation was added later in the translation. And in the case of this prayer, the translators made an error by adding a period between “…daily Bread” and “and forgive us…” There should be no punctuation there. Not because I said so, but because of all the Bible references (provided here below) that are consistent with that.

2. There were two words: “sins” and “trespasses”. “Sins” was used in reference to God. We trespass against humans, but we “sin” against God! Trespass is a soft word that lessens the significance of the offense, but when it comes to God, it is a deadly offense; proper word for it is “sins”. Jesus used the word “sins” throughout the scripture, not “trespasses”(example in John 9:41). So it’s not “… forgive us our trespasses…” It is “… forgive us our sins…”


Bible references supporting this:
“daily Bread” = Body of Jesus, not earthly necessities


1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

John 15:5
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.


John 6
The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.


Wording crafted by God Himself

Many Christians think, “surely Jesus gave us this prayer as an example. That He didn’t mean for us to repeat it daily!”

He did!!; He [God] Personally word-smithed the words perfectly. Exactly as He did throughout history. After the fall He taught Adam and Eve how to present a sacrifice fitting to Him, He crafted the Leviticus law to Moses that had to be followed precisely, and finally the Lord’s Prayer, which is the optimum method compared to previous covenants. It's a prayer that we say in our hearts once a day. It keeps us close to God, and fulfills John 5:24: "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."

After saying the Lord’s Prayer, the communication channels with God become wide open (through the Holy Spirit within us of course). Afterwards we can say our own prayers using our words, making our request known to God… And He will answer.

I can guess why this prayer is no longer recited daily (except occasionally at some sports games, as a tradition). It is because people are well provided for these days. And therefore, feel they don’t need to bother God by asking for the daily bread anymore (implying earthly necessities), as they have plenty of them now. And that is a sad fact of today’s people.

The other sad fact is, many people today equate earthly blessings to spiritual blessings - they drive up in their latest model SUVs to the biggest church in town… When it is the exact opposite. Having a lot of earthly riches actually equates to going to hell later (Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”"), unless God is truly in the center of our lives.

Accepting this Biblical-fact: that a true believer must pray the Lord’s Prayer daily may seem difficult at first. This is because most churches have brainwashed people for years into thinking “do nothing, nothing at all, just mark the front of your Bible with the date you were saved / born-again / etc.”. This daily prayer to God is not “works”. It is obedience of a true believer. No wonder there is no peace on earth yet (Luke 2:14). No one has been praying it properly.


Miracles happen when we pray the Lord’s Prayer

The moment we say this prayer we become "Righteous" in the eyes of God, and therefore become standing in the presence of God (through the Holy Spirit within us) (Luke 1:19, 1Kings 18:15).

A true believer can perform miracles at this moment.

This is how Jesus performed miracles:
Step 1: Forgive sins
Step 2: Miracle
Mark gave us a glimpse of this in Mark 2:5, 11, & 12. Without Step1, can’t do Step2.

So, for us it is:
Step 1: The Lord’s Prayer for the forgiveness of sins
Step 2: In the name of Jesus Christ… miracle

But without the main ingredient, faith, nothing can be done. Even Jesus Himself could not perform miracles where there was no faith among people of that town (Mark 6:5).

He instructed His followers; to perform miracles in His name (John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18, Mark 9:39).

Go ahead, start praying this prayer daily. And pray it again in the presence of someone in need of a miracle. And don't freak-out when the miracle happens, it would show lack of faith. Jesus said we can move mountains (Matthew 17:20), and that we will do greater miracles than the ones He did! That's right, that's what Jesus said in John 14:12-14. And also in Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

We are there now; much closer to the "last days" now than they were back when Acts was written. I believe praying the Lord's Prayer properly will usher-in this new generation of people as predicted in John and Acts.

You are so very correct sir, almost everyone prays it, yet few even know what they are asking for.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The moment we say this prayer we become "Righteous" in the eyes of God,
Are you saying that you start the day unrighteous, then you say the Lord's Prayer, and then you become righteous again? To repeat again the next day?

Aren't we made righteous being baptized into Christ?

Do we require fresh forgiveness each day? Or have we been forgiven of all our sins already by trusting in Christ?

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009
Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you saying that you start the day unrighteous, then you say the Lord's Prayer, and then you become righteous again? To repeat again the next day?

Aren't we made righteous being baptized into Christ?

Do we require fresh forgiveness each day? Or have we been forgiven of all our sins already by trusting in Christ?

Much love!

Well you can quote other verses from the Bible, but the reality remains, this is what Jesus instructed (not "what I'm saying"). And this is what it means based on the many Biblical references provided. Of course it is not a precise homework. Praying this prayer daily, forgives us our sins for that day. It is not meant to be precise - "before or after we sin etc." My point about the brain starting sinning the moment we wake up, is to point out that we are all sinners, and continuously in today's culture of continuous access to social media television etc. And this is exactly what the Bible is saying here about us sinning on the inside of us: Matthew 15:19, and Mark 7:21.

And let's examine the Bible closely before we get sinical about the things of God. For he demands utmost respect from us.
 

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4

[9]This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name, [10]your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. [11]Give us this day our daily bread [12]and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us. [13]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

The “daily bread” is not our earthly necessities. The “Daily Bread” is the Body of Jesus.

This part of the prayer is one sentence:
“Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33).

Jesus would never instruct us to pray for earthy necessities, as clear from His teachings throughout the bible. Example, sermon on the mount: “don’t worry about earthly needs, but seek God first…” (Matthew 6:31-33)

It is obviously implied to say the Lord’s Prayer “daily”. It would be disrespectful of us not to say it daily. Do you truly believe in Him when you’re not saying this prayer daily as He instructed?

You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life spiritually, by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer acknowledging the meaning of every word in it.

You might say, "what's the difference? as long as we pray the prayer." Oh there is a huge difference. Our spiritual communication with God is about what we mean. The words are meaningless unless we mean what they are in our hearts.

If you examine the original Aramaic version of this prayer, you’ll find two important facts:
1. No punctuation. Punctuation was added later in the translation. And in the case of this prayer, the translators made an error by adding a period between “…daily Bread” and “and forgive us…” There should be no punctuation there. Not because I said so, but because of all the Bible references (provided here below) that are consistent with that.

2. There were two words: “sins” and “trespasses”. “Sins” was used in reference to God. We trespass against humans, but we “sin” against God! Trespass is a soft word that lessens the significance of the offense, but when it comes to God, it is a deadly offense; proper word for it is “sins”. Jesus used the word “sins” throughout the scripture, not “trespasses”(example in John 9:41). So it’s not “… forgive us our trespasses…” It is “… forgive us our sins…”


Bible references supporting this:
“daily Bread” = Body of Jesus, not earthly necessities


1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

John 15:5
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.


John 6
The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.


Wording crafted by God Himself

Many Christians think, “surely Jesus gave us this prayer as an example. That He didn’t mean for us to repeat it daily!”

He did!!; He [God] Personally word-smithed the words perfectly. Exactly as He did throughout history. After the fall He taught Adam and Eve how to present a sacrifice fitting to Him, He crafted the Leviticus law to Moses that had to be followed precisely, and finally the Lord’s Prayer, which is the optimum method compared to previous covenants. It's a prayer that we say in our hearts once a day. It keeps us close to God, and fulfills John 5:24: "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."

After saying the Lord’s Prayer, the communication channels with God become wide open (through the Holy Spirit within us of course). Afterwards we can say our own prayers using our words, making our request known to God… And He will answer.

I can guess why this prayer is no longer recited daily (except occasionally at some sports games, as a tradition). It is because people are well provided for these days. And therefore, feel they don’t need to bother God by asking for the daily bread anymore (implying earthly necessities), as they have plenty of them now. And that is a sad fact of today’s people.

The other sad fact is, many people today equate earthly blessings to spiritual blessings - they drive up in their latest model SUVs to the biggest church in town… When it is the exact opposite. Having a lot of earthly riches actually equates to going to hell later (Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”"), unless God is truly in the center of our lives.

Accepting this Biblical-fact: that a true believer must pray the Lord’s Prayer daily may seem difficult at first. This is because most churches have brainwashed people for years into thinking “do nothing, nothing at all, just mark the front of your Bible with the date you were saved / born-again / etc.”. This daily prayer to God is not “works”. It is obedience of a true believer. No wonder there is no peace on earth yet (Luke 2:14). No one has been praying it properly.


Miracles happen when we pray the Lord’s Prayer

The moment we say this prayer we become "Righteous" in the eyes of God, and therefore become standing in the presence of God (through the Holy Spirit within us) (Luke 1:19, 1Kings 18:15).

A true believer can perform miracles at this moment.

This is how Jesus performed miracles:
Step 1: Forgive sins
Step 2: Miracle
Mark gave us a glimpse of this in Mark 2:5, 11, & 12. Without Step1, can’t do Step2.

So, for us it is:
Step 1: The Lord’s Prayer for the forgiveness of sins
Step 2: In the name of Jesus Christ… miracle

But without the main ingredient, faith, nothing can be done. Even Jesus Himself could not perform miracles where there was no faith among people of that town (Mark 6:5).

He instructed His followers; to perform miracles in His name (John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18, Mark 9:39).

Go ahead, start praying this prayer daily. And pray it again in the presence of someone in need of a miracle. And don't freak-out when the miracle happens, it would show lack of faith. Jesus said we can move mountains (Matthew 17:20), and that we will do greater miracles than the ones He did! That's right, that's what Jesus said in John 14:12-14. And also in Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

We are there now; much closer to the "last days" now than they were back when Acts was written. I believe praying the Lord's Prayer properly will usher-in this new generation of people as predicted in John and Acts.

Jesus is the bread of life, not our daily bread.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And let's examine the Bible closely before we get sinical about the things of God.
Yes, let's do, and let's not!

You've sidestepped all my questions. Do you simply not wish to answer, but with an appearance of having replied?

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009
Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is the bread of life, not our daily bread.

Hello Curtis,
You are mistaken sir. Look at these Bible references that say that Jesus is the daily Bread in His prayer:

1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

John 15:5
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.

John 6
The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.
 

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well you can quote other verses from the Bible, but the reality remains, this is what Jesus instructed (not "what I'm saying"). And this is what it means based on the many Biblical references provided. Of course it is not a precise homework. Praying this prayer daily, forgives us our sins for that day. It is not meant to be precise - "before or after we sin etc." My point about the brain starting sinning the moment we wake up, is to point out that we are all sinners, and continuously in today's culture of continuous access to social media television etc. And this is exactly what the Bible is saying here about us sinning on the inside of us: Matthew 15:19, and Mark 7:21.

And let's examine the Bible closely before we get sinical about the things of God. For he demands utmost respect from us.

Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors refers to what Jesus taught, that we must forgive others so God will forgive us, or God will take back His forgiveness of our sins, per the parable of the unforgiving servant.

The Christians sins as a believer are forgiven by confessing the sin (to God - not to some priest) per 1 John 1:9.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
this is what Jesus instructed
Where exactly did Jesus tell you to daily repeat these words to daily receive forgiveness? I'm not seeing that.

Jesus taught those under the Law to pray in a manner that reflects their lives under the Law.

To the one born from God in the New Covenant, God teaches us to forgive others as we have been forgiven by God, not to forgive others so that we can receive forgiveness from God.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Maybe saying, Give us today our "daily bread" is to distinguish this from the Bread from Heaven? That saying "daily bread" is to let us know that Jesus was in fact talking about our daily provision? I think there is a certain simplicity to the Scriptures.

Much love!
 
Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where exactly did Jesus tell you to daily repeat these words to daily receive forgiveness? I'm not seeing that.

Jesus taught those under the Law to pray in a manner that reflects their lives under the Law.

To the one born from God in the New Covenant, God teaches us to forgive others as we have been forgiven by God, not to forgive others so that we can receive forgiveness from God.

Much love!

Hello marks,

He said to pray it "daily" within the prayer itself: "Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins". He didn't say this-week/weekly or this-month/monthly. He said this-day/daily. And He was very clear about it. Why do we need to even be talking about this? I'm sure you're a very intelligent person. I hope you're not one of these people in Matthew 11:25.

Lovingly,
Christian Believer
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello marks,

He said to pray it "daily" within the prayer itself: "Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins". He didn't say this-week/weekly or this-month/monthly. He said this-day/daily. And He was very clear about it. Why do we need to even be talking about this? I'm sure you're a very intelligent person. I hope you're not one of these people in Matthew 11:25.

Lovingly,
Christian Believer
It seems to me that you are taking something that was given to a certain people at a certain time, and you are treating it as a "New Covenant Law", or something like that, to apply to a different people in a different time. I don't think that works.

We are justified by faith in Christ, but you seem to want me to think I need to do some certain thing daily to be justified by God. So then are you saying my reconciliation to God is based on Christ's propitiatory sacrifice and my daily performance of forgiving others?

Much love!
 
Jan 27, 2022
67
19
8
78
Frisco
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It seems to me that you are taking something that was given to a certain people at a certain time, and you are treating it as a "New Covenant Law", or something like that, to apply to a different people in a different time. I don't think that works.

We are justified by faith in Christ, but you seem to want me to think I need to do some certain thing daily to be justified by God. So then are you saying my reconciliation to God is based on Christ's propitiatory sacrifice and my daily performance of forgiving others?

Much love!

Yes it is new in some ways, because most have forgotten an essential teaching form Jesus, His Prayer. Yes I am bringing it to the attention of everyone, that Jesus taught us to say this prayer daily, and most are not saying it. And a lot of churches are not teaching it. Why? You calling it "something that was given to a certain people at a certain time" doesn't change anything. It was Jesus in the same Bible talking to the same people, where your church pulled the verses it deemed useful for their purpose.

"We are justified by faith in Christ," yes, and the Lord's Prayer fulfils it. And whether you like it or not, He did say daily. But this statement "but you seem to want me to think I need to do some certain thing daily to be justified by God" is completely contradicting to the Jesus teaching in Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4. It is not me saying, it is Jesus saying. And you would say anything to reject it so your church's teaching fits. Where is your loyalty? To your church? Or to God? I am giving you enough evidence here, with Biblical references for you to question your church teaching. But all you do is find the next answer to say no. This is exactly why we need to leave the churches and go seek God on our own by reading the Bible.

In today's world of internet and social media, we have all we need at our disposal to study the Bible on our own. God never intended to have all these denominations collecting donations, and confusing people with their different interpretations. We need to be loyal to God, not our denomination's interpretation.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,794
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4

[9]This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name, [10]your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Welcome to the forum. :)

We know that a message is from the Lord when it has two levels of meaning...both in righteousness AND in holiness. The above verse can mean two things. Either the kingdom to come in the future or the presence of the kingdom at the present time.

Examples of this duality abound in the bible. Even something as basic as "the just will live by his faith" can mean his own faith...or else His faith...the faith of Jesus. The first inference is according to righteousness and the deeper meaning is according to holiness.

[11]Give us this day our daily bread [12]and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us. [13]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

The “daily bread” is not our earthly necessities. The “Daily Bread” is the Body of Jesus.

This part of the prayer is one sentence:
“Give us this day our daily Bread and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33).

Jesus would never instruct us to pray for earthy necessities, as clear from His teachings throughout the bible. Example, sermon on the mount: “don’t worry about earthly needs, but seek God first…” (Matthew 6:31-33)

It is obviously implied to say the Lord’s Prayer “daily”. It would be disrespectful of us not to say it daily. Do you truly believe in Him when you’re not saying this prayer daily as He instructed?

You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life spiritually, by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer acknowledging the meaning of every word in it.

You might say, "what's the difference? as long as we pray the prayer." Oh there is a huge difference. Our spiritual communication with God is about what we mean. The words are meaningless unless we mean what they are in our hearts.

If you examine the original Aramaic version of this prayer, you’ll find two important facts:
1. No punctuation. Punctuation was added later in the translation. And in the case of this prayer, the translators made an error by adding a period between “…daily Bread” and “and forgive us…” There should be no punctuation there. Not because I said so, but because of all the Bible references (provided here below) that are consistent with that.

2. There were two words: “sins” and “trespasses”. “Sins” was used in reference to God. We trespass against humans, but we “sin” against God! Trespass is a soft word that lessens the significance of the offense, but when it comes to God, it is a deadly offense; proper word for it is “sins”. Jesus used the word “sins” throughout the scripture, not “trespasses”(example in John 9:41). So it’s not “… forgive us our trespasses…” It is “… forgive us our sins…”


Bible references supporting this:
“daily Bread” = Body of Jesus, not earthly necessities


1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

John 15:5
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.


John 6
The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.


Wording crafted by God Himself

Many Christians think, “surely Jesus gave us this prayer as an example. That He didn’t mean for us to repeat it daily!”

He did!!; He [God] Personally word-smithed the words perfectly. Exactly as He did throughout history. After the fall He taught Adam and Eve how to present a sacrifice fitting to Him, He crafted the Leviticus law to Moses that had to be followed precisely, and finally the Lord’s Prayer, which is the optimum method compared to previous covenants. It's a prayer that we say in our hearts once a day. It keeps us close to God, and fulfills John 5:24: "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."

After saying the Lord’s Prayer, the communication channels with God become wide open (through the Holy Spirit within us of course). Afterwards we can say our own prayers using our words, making our request known to God… And He will answer.

I can guess why this prayer is no longer recited daily (except occasionally at some sports games, as a tradition). It is because people are well provided for these days. And therefore, feel they don’t need to bother God by asking for the daily bread anymore (implying earthly necessities), as they have plenty of them now. And that is a sad fact of today’s people.

The other sad fact is, many people today equate earthly blessings to spiritual blessings - they drive up in their latest model SUVs to the biggest church in town… When it is the exact opposite. Having a lot of earthly riches actually equates to going to hell later (Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”"), unless God is truly in the center of our lives.

Accepting this Biblical-fact: that a true believer must pray the Lord’s Prayer daily may seem difficult at first. This is because most churches have brainwashed people for years into thinking “do nothing, nothing at all, just mark the front of your Bible with the date you were saved / born-again / etc.”. This daily prayer to God is not “works”. It is obedience of a true believer. No wonder there is no peace on earth yet (Luke 2:14). No one has been praying it properly.
The meaning of bread has two layers of meaning. It can mean the daily provision of temporal necessities that God gives to the righteous...as in "I have never seen the righteous to want"...and also, as you say, the daily Bread of resurrection life in a moment by moment walk.

I don't believe that a certain formula of prayer has more effect on the Lord than any other. It's where the prayer comes from in us that counts! :)

Peace <><
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
for you to question your church teaching.
I'm sorry, I've not said a single thing about what a church teaches.

Where are we going here?

I've questioned you on a couple of points, and is your reply to me, Don't just listen to my church? That's kind of non-sequitor, wouldn't you say?

Much love!