The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood

[Robert Gwin]

What PEOPLE say is irrelevant, and Jesus is not a liar.
.

Exactly, so then who did Jesus say was God sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I feel as though you are using me to get your personal views across. It is far easier to destroy than it is to build so with that in mind I feel compelled to put you on ignore. The same for Keiw.

Who are men saying Jesus is Coop? Do you agree with Jesus' reply? If not, why not?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, under the Old Covenant God was also supposed to lead His people, but He worked through the kings, priests and prophets. With those anointed persons, He worked directly even as He does with individuals today.

The common people in the OT were required to work through those anointed persons. There may have been exceptions like the parents of Samson, but with them their interchange with the angel was due to their unborn son, who was to be in another class of anointed person, a judge.

Today we do have anointed helpers as per... "he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

We have those helpers, but their functions are not precisely the same as the anointed ones in the OT although they certainly may overlap in places.

In the first century the account recorded in Eph is correct Amad, but the great apostasy had already set in by the time John recorded his last writings. He spoke about the antichrists in 2 Jn. The apostasy would continue until Jesus was enthroned as King, of course there was a small time of orientation as we entered into that last day period of gathering Jehovah's people Isa 2:2-4, and Jesus said he would assign a faithful slave to feed his sheep until his return Mat 24:45-47, so now during these last days Jehovah's people are fed through the faithful slave. The feed us incredibly well.

 

[amadeus]

In the first century the account recorded in Eph is correct Amad, but the great apostasy had already set in by the time John recorded his last writings. He spoke about the antichrists in 2 Jn.

Since Jesus was sent to us in the flesh, 2000 years ago, there have been those who were against him, the antichrists. Within believers even today there are also still the old man of them struggling to regain what has been lost by the person's acceptance and pursuit of the promises and Life itself. The battle rages, but the antichrists will lose. Those who remain on God's side to the end will, of course, win.

The apostasy would continue until Jesus was enthroned as King, of course there was a small time of orientation as we entered into that last day period of gathering Jehovah's people Isa 2:2-4, and Jesus said he would assign a faithful slave to feed his sheep until his return Mat 24:45-47, so now during these last days Jehovah's people are fed through the

faithful slave. The feed us incredibly well.

When is Jesus made the ruler/king of our hearts? For each of us, is that not a most important question?

I am eating well my friend. Remember that Elijah during the drought was fed by the ravens. God always has a way to provide what He knows those who love Him need. Will they recognize their need and partake? God may not use ravens today, but we do know what it is we are to eat:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life.
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:47-51

 

[Robert Gwin]

Since Jesus was sent to us in the flesh, 2000 years ago, there have been those who were against him, the antichrists. Within believers even today there are also still the old man of them struggling to regain what has been lost by the person's acceptance and pursuit of the promises and Life itself. The battle rages, but the antichrists will lose. Those who remain on God's side to the end will, of course, win.

When is Jesus made the ruler/king of our hearts? For each of us, is that not a most important question?

I am eating well my friend. Remember that Elijah during the drought was fed by the ravens. God always has a way to provide what He knows those who love Him need. Will they recognize their need and partake? God may not use ravens today, but we do know what it is we are to eat:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life.
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:47-51

Do you believe the faithful slave exists Amad?

 

[amadeus]

Do you believe the faithful slave exists Amad?

I must guess at what you mean here but perhaps you are speaking of this:

"If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever." Exodus 21:4-6

Servant:
db[ `ebed (eh'-bed); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 5650

1. slave, servant
   1. slave, servant, man-servant
   2. subjects
   3. servants, worshippers (of God)
   4. servant (in special sense as prophets, Levites etc)
   5. servant (of Israel)
   6. servant (as form of address between equals)

And then again...

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Matt 20:25-28

Servant:
dou'loß Doulos (doo'-los);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun, Strong #: 1401

1. a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
   1. a slave
   2. metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men
   3. devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
2. a servant, attendant

Minister:
diakonevw Diakoneo (dee-ak-on-eh'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 1247

1. to be a servant, attendant, domestic, to serve, wait upon
   1. to minister to one, render ministering offices to
      1. to be served, ministered unto
   2. to wait at a table and offer food and drink to the guests,
      1. of women preparing food
   3. to minister i.e. supply food and necessities of life
      1. to relieve one's necessities (e.g. by collecting alms), to provide take care of, distribute, the things necessary to sustain life
      2. to take care of the poor and the sick, who administer the office of a deacon
      3. in Christian churches to serve as deacons
   4. to minister
      1. to attend to anything, that may serve another's interests
      2. to minister a thing to one, to serve one or by supplying any thing

 

[Robert Gwin]

I must guess at what you mean here but perhaps you are speaking of this:

"If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever." Exodus 21:4-6

Servant:
db[ `ebed (eh'-bed); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 5650

1. slave, servant
   1. slave, servant, man-servant
   2. subjects
   3. servants, worshippers (of God)
   4. servant (in special sense as prophets, Levites etc)
   5. servant (of Israel)
   6. servant (as form of address between equals)

And then again...

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Matt 20:25-28

Servant:
dou'loß Doulos (doo'-los);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun, Strong #: 1401

1. a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
   1. a slave
   2. metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men
   3. devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
2. a servant, attendant

Minister:
diakonevw Diakoneo (dee-ak-on-eh'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 1247

1. to be a servant, attendant, domestic, to serve, wait upon
   1. to minister to one, render ministering offices to
      1. to be served, ministered unto
   2. to wait at a table and offer food and drink to the guests,
      1. of women preparing food
   3. to minister i.e. supply food and necessities of life
      1. to relieve one's necessities (e.g. by collecting alms), to provide take care of, distribute, the things necessary to sustain life
      2. to take care of the poor and the sick, who administer the office of a deacon
      3. in Christian churches to serve as deacons
   4. to minister
      1. to attend to anything, that may serve another's interests
      2. to minister a thing to one, to serve one or by supplying any thing

I am sorry Amad, I should have included the passage, it is easy to get lost in following conversations here. What I was asking was do you believe the faithful slave that Jesus assigned to shepherd his sheep during the last days is here. This is the passage sir: (Matthew 24:45-47) 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

If you believe we are deep in the last days, this slave should be easily identified.

 

[amadeus]

I am sorry Amad, I should have included the passage, it is easy to get lost in following conversations here. What I was asking was do you believe the faithful slave that Jesus assigned to shepherd his sheep during the last days is here. This is the passage sir: (Matthew 24:45-47) 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

Thanks for the apology, but there was really no need. We are both heading toward the goal...toward the Light, toward the end of our course.

If you believe we are deep in the last days, this slave should be easily identified.

The last days? For whom? I am 78 years old. Do you not suppose that I have passed the half-way or even the ¾ mark of the time of my personal course? Seems very likely to me in either case. If God wants me here longer, let it be so according to His will.

As for mankind in general or even the Church [the Body of Christ] in particular, who am I to concern myself too much on such matters. I must keep my eye on the goal that God set before me. I must do the work that He has assigned to me as my part. How does or will it all fit together in and with the whole? Through darkened glass still in much do I see things. I simply move in the Light of my next step sometimes not seeing any farther ahead than that. Do I need to know or to speculate...? God knows!

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

 

[Robert Gwin]

Thanks for the apology, but there was really no need. We are both heading toward the goal...toward the Light, toward the end of our course.

The last days? For whom? I am 78 years old. Do you not suppose that I have passed the half-way or even the ¾ mark of the time of my personal course? Seems very likely to me in either case. If God wants me here longer, let it be so according to His will.

As for mankind in general or even the Church [the Body of Christ] in particular, who am I to concern myself too much on such matters. I must keep my eye on the goal that God set before me. I must do the work that He has assigned to me as my part. How does or will it all fit together in and with the whole? Through darkened glass still in much do I see things. I simply move in the Light of my next step sometimes not seeing any farther ahead than that. Do I need to know or to speculate...? God knows!

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

Congrats on your age Amad, you are a mighty man Ps 90:10 I hope you are granted life eternal, and seeking the Kingdom first is the only way in reality. Of course therefore, one must know what the Kingdom is, and become citizens of it now, as it appears citizens are being gathered, unless of course we are not in the last days Isa 2:2-4, although most of us think we are deep into them.