They have to do verse 39 at Matt 23--its been over 1950 years, they outright refuse.
Spiritual Israel-meaning Gods chosen are the the ones who belong to God now, out of every nation.
Jesus is Michael
- Thread starter Keiw
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
They have to do verse 39 at Matt 23--its been over 1950 years, they outright refuse.
Spiritual Israel-meaning Gods chosen are the the ones who belong to God now, out of every nation.
It say, all of God's angels. As is so typical . . . It says "all", but means "some" . . . So the thing with me, I just believe what it says.
Much love!
Interesting idea, but how do you support that? I see something different in the Bible myself.
Much love!
Then please tell us all how God has a God( John 20:17, Rev 3:12) and that God must be in subjection-1Cor 15:24-28)
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Um . . . I'm not JW . . .
I believe Jesus to be none other than YHWH, the Creator God.
Much love!
Is that your big "Gotcha" question?
Will I convince you? The answers to these questions are simple. Jeremiah called God the "God of all flesh", and when Jesus Christ, the Son of God, took on flesh, He took on all that came with it.
Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In this passage, above - didn't I ask you this before? - Jesus "took upon him the form of a servant", what was He before that?
One more . . .
He humbled Himself, and He became obedient. What was He before that? Was He sovereign? Glorious? Do you have any other answer?
Much love!
Satan was a fallen angel. Prob8:22-25 the being sent to earth tells all he was created long before the earth was formed or other things. This is the one named Jesus as a mortal-created direct-first and last.
Yes Jesus lived before Abraham-- There is no-i am that i am in the Hebrew written ot-only in trinity translations-- they mistranslated that statement- the Hebrew scholars say-i will be what i will be is the correct translation of that passage. They know the language better than any trinitarian does.
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Most of your "evidence" is this, that it claims that the Bible is incorrect and mistranslated, or faulty.
You are discrediting as much as you can, and stomping out the Word, in order to get this thing to work. The more I read, the more clear to me, that is occultic mysticism nonsense.
*When nothing makes sense, it all makes sense."
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Galatians 1:6-9
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
You should know better. Will pray you learn better.
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
You should know better. Will pray you learn better.
I truly do not understand this reply.
Again . . . where in the Bible does it tell us when angels were created? I'd say in cross referencing Job and Psalms we find the answer, but what do you say? Something about Proverbs 8? Can you quote the passage?
Much love!
Your both wrong... Jesus is not Michael as taught by Paul
Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through (on account of) whom also He made the world.
and Jesus did not create "all things"
Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities."
Jesus never claimed credit for the original Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth.
He was in no doubt that the universe was God's handiwork.
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God (my Father) created until now, and never will be.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word (ῥῆμα/ rhēma) of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Please note that the word used here is not Logos as it is used in John 1 but rhēma .
Psa 89:26 He shall cry to me, 'You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.' 27 And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. 28 My steadfast love I will keep for him forever, and my covenant will stand firm for him. 29 I will establish his offspring forever and his throne as the days of the heavens.
In the spirit of prophecy, God announces that this king’s superior position is a matter of appointment, not the time of birth.
Furthermore, God makes his appointed king "the highest [in status and rank] of the kings of the earth." Thus, when the apostle applies the term “first-born” to the son of God in Colossians 1, he is using a well-known OT Messianic description. In fact, the expression is repeated a few verses later, where Paul writes, “He is also head of the body, the church; and he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead” (v.18). The different qualifier here is noteworthy. Whereas in verse 15 the Son is the “first-born” of all creation,” here the Son is the "first-born from the dead.” If we take into account the Hebrew literary style of parallelism, where the same idea is repeated but in slightly modified form, it is quite reasonable to suggest that the qualifiers "of all creation" and "from the dead" means the same thing. The thought is clearly that Jesus the son of God is the first man of God's new creation, because he is the first man ever to be raised to immortality.
I'll ask you the same thing I ask others, which no one answers me. Perhaps you will answer me.
Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
He humbled Himself. What was He before? Glorious?
He became obedient. What was He before? Sovereign?
Much love!
Let's take your words at face value . . .
Jesus is not either the heavens themself, or the earth itself. You still have Jesus creating Himself.
Colossians 1:16-17 KJV
16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
A careful reading shows us, the contents of heaven and earth are included as being created by Jesus, while heaven and earth are not excepted. And the statement is itself made, all things were created by him, and for him.
When you read that to mean, all things which were persons and things in heaven and on earth were created by a created person in heaven or on earth, well, you must see the problem with that.
Much love!
The same way a Pentagon general has a general. The same way a lot of doctors have a doctor.
Similar threads
