Faith Alone is Dead

[Taken]

I came to look upon the faith/works recently in a different way when I realise the difference between our definition of works ( a physical act of doing something ) and the definition that it could also mean ‘ putting faith into action ‘ …which means trusting.
The verses you have shared kind of shows that, it was the mans faith that brought about an impact that was evident.
His faith showed it’s self as working.

Many define ‘ works ‘ as being good to others, but even non believers can do good works.
Just seen an ad for one of the local churches that I like, they are doing a series on James, they sum up what I was meaning by the title they have chosen ‘ Faith that works ‘
Thanks for the verses Taken x
Rita

Thanks Rita.

I get your point. And Agree. Faith is one thing. Works is another thing.
How Faith and Works mesh together is much broader, as Intent and Purpose regarding individuals is broad and varying.

I view Faith, as a Gift from God, FOR Hearing His Word. Hear More, Receive More Faith. Basic. Hear Less, Stop Hearing, Stop Receiving More. Reject what one has Heard, called Fallen From Faith.

Then the Works. I view works as a Labor. Different than a Service. Saying Labor ie. “works” is one thing. And “service” is a different thing. Service is “not” a “works”.

Anyone can DO “works”, that “benefit” themselves, or that “benefit” others...
Now the “benefit” (ie reward) comes into play.
* If I do works for an employer......example, my benefit (reward) is the employer Serves me with a “paycheck”.
* If I do works for an other......example, I help a neighbor build a fence, the neighbor may, simply say Thank you, or may Serve me a meal. My benefit (reward) is the Thank you, or the meal.
* So far...the “works” was “my” effort/labor. The “Reward” was “mine.”

* WHAT IS MISSING in this scenario?
* God!
* So HOW TO “enter” God into the scenario?
There are TWO WAYS...
~ 1) me, personally, via my relationship WITH God, ability to converse WITH Him...Thanking Him, that He Gave me the Strength, to me, MAKING me ABLE to DO, either of the Works.
~ 2) MY, opportunity, WHEN receiving my “reward”, to SPEAK UP and SAY, my WORKS were possible, are accredited to God.

Then there is the scenario, that Scripture also teaches... “Charity”.
That has multiply “reasonings”, per the individual. For examples;
* Giving for a TAX write off.
* Giving for the purpose of getting rid of your own nuisance junk.
* Getting piers, associates, etc. “kudos” for giving.
AGAIN...God is missing from that scenario.
AGAIN...man gets the benefit.

1 Cor 3:
[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

AGAIN...FOR God to BE Included...man has the Option TO INCLUDE GOD.
Thanking Him, Speaking UP giving in His Name, to His Credit.

The “CHARITY” giving, is entirely a focus on “GIVING” to an other... SOMETHING “YOU” value. (Time, money, items, etc.) AF IF ... God Himself is the One accredited with Giving to another....with NO reward for “yourself”.
It changes the scenario........of the Receiver to Focus ON God.
* When taking the “reward” and “focus” off the “individual giver”.... and putting the Focus On God....<—-> THAT GLORIFIES GOD, Gods Great Name.
* That IS the individual man.... SERVING GOD.

* WHEN...a man Serves God....God Rewards the man, For the Works he DID, (for others)...that DID Serve God, BY Glorifying Gods Great Name.

* Salvation IS a Gift from God, entirely different from Works a man does.
* Salvation IS a Gift TO man, FOR the mans Service unto God.

Pss 115:
[1] Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GEN2REV]

Among men it's called being all talk and no show, all mouth, puts on a good show only, plenty of faith on the inside and nothing on the outside, he talks a good game but does nothing about it, and finally there is Missouri the Show Me state:

Faith as wide as the ocean and deep as a puddle.

Many even claim that obedience to God is works salvation.

It's all in an effort to attack and diminish the Word of God.

It is Heresy that no longer bothers to wear a disguise.

The wolf strolls proudly among "professed" Christians now. Packs of his kin lead the masses.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Faith Alone is Dead
OP ^

Jesus says:

Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Mark 5:
[34] And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Luke 18:
[42] And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Mark 10:
[52] And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Who ya going to Trust?

None of those passages disprove what OP said. The people in those passages had faith in Jesus' ability to heal them, and they acted on that faith. That's the kind of faith James and Paul spoke of. Why is it that a concept this simple continues to elude people's understanding?

 

[Taken]

None of those passages disprove what OP said. The people in those passages had faith in Jesus' ability to heal them, and they acted on that faith. That's the kind of faith James and Paul spoke of. Why is it that a concept this simple continues to elude people's understanding?

I was speaking of KNOWLEDGE period.
The OP presented his own mindset.....

Faith Alone is Dead

I presented Jesus’ Words....
Faith hath SAVED a particular person.
Faith has MADE a particular person WHOLE.

I am aware of the difference between...is NOT saved...and IS SAV-ED,
I am aware of the difference between...NOT WHOLE...and WHOLE.

I have NO misconception of what JESUS plainly SAID.
I have utmost consideration that what JESUS SAYS, is Absolute TRUTH.
* There was ZERO consideration (BY JESUS) of ANY “works” of the particular people Jesus was addressing.....
FOR Jesus to declare THEY were SAV-ED and THEY were WHOLE.

* SAVED and WHOLE....are ACCOMPLISHED...DONE DEAL! Can not be UNDONE...and NOTHING whatsoever to do WITH “works”.

One man hanging next to Jesus, physically being Crucified at the same time as Jesus’ body was being Crucified....One man Called out to Jesus, Addressed Him AS Lord, Appealed to Jesus to remember him....AND?
In that moment was that man, SAVED and WHOLE Because of his FAITH ALONE?
Yes.

I am NOT bound by Your Knowledge or by Your Understanding.
The Lord God Almighty SAVES and makes WHOLE whom He pleases, in the Fashion He pleases, in the Instant He pleases, without regard to Your knowledge or Your understanding.

 

[Behold]

OSAS, but Jesus is warning believers to be ready for the Bridegroom or else be cut off, .

All the born again are "ONE with God", "In Christ".
This is forever.
And notice.....God did this for you., which is the wonder of Salvation.
Its something that God does for you, and God always maintains........not because of you, but because of Jesus.

See, God accepts us and keeps us, not based on US.......but only based what Christ did for us on the Cross that is COMPLETED.

This is the GRACE of GOD.

ITs the GIFT of Salvation.

 

[Christ4Me]

All the born again are "ONE with God", "In Christ".
This is forever.
And notice.....God did this for you., which is the wonder of Salvation.
Its something that God does for you, and God always maintains........not because of you, but because of Jesus.

See, God accepts us and keeps us, not based on US.......but only based what Christ did for us on the Cross that is COMPLETED.

This is the GRACE of GOD.

ITs the GIFT of Salvation.

Those saints left behind are still saved. that is the truth overlooked here.

Thise not found abiding in Him and His words but are in iniquity ( Revelation 2:18-25 ) and those who are not willing to go because they love this life more than Him ( Luke 14:15-24 ) , will be left behind. This is not testifying to them losing salvation or that they were never saved, but for not being ready nor willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

 

[robert derrick]

Faith alone is faith of man alone, not of God. The only faith of God is the faith of His dear Son, the faith of Jesus:

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Faith alone is of man only, not of Jesus Christ.

Even as the man Christ Jesus is the risen true God, and not man alone, so the faith of Jesus is not the faith alone of man, who is only man and not of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Faith alone separates it's salvation from faith that obeys. Likewise, God separates His salvation from man's faith alone.

Faith alone is for man's salvation, not God's, because faith alone makes peace with the devil, to go on sinning from some more, and never ends in this life until the grave.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Man's faith alone is not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ: faith alone stumbles at the cornerstone of justification with God, which is only by works of His faith, and never by man's dead faith, being alone.

Man's faith alone forsakes the faith of God, and so God forsakes man's faith alone:

Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.

And this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them.

Them trusting in faith alone go a whoring after gods alone that are no gods, even as their faith is no faith.

Faith alone separates itself from faith that obeys, even as loving God in word and tongue separates itself from loving the brethren:

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

 

[robert derrick]

How can a man that has not works seen, have faith unseen? Can faith save Him?

Faith unseen with works unseen is dead faith, being unseen.

Works are faith seen: the evidence of faith unseen. Faith without works seen is without substance, being alone and dead, even as the body is without the spirit:

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Therefore faith that is alive is never separate from body of faith, which is works that are seen: no works, no faith.

Only works seen has faith unseen. Faith in heart is unseen, and works from heart is faith seen.

Faith and works are one: being faith unseen and faith seen:

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Even as God and His Spirit are One, so are faith and it's works are one: God commands the faith, and the Spirit does the work.

 

[robert derrick]

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived.

Scripture does not say: The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, except the unrighteous that are counted righteous by faith alone.

Faith alone salvation compels Christians to confess themselves sinners like the world, and yet all sin is unrighteousness with God, and so all sinners are the unrighteous.

No unrighteous sinner shall ever inherit the kingdom of God, no matter how much dead faith they like to think they have, and talk about amongst themselves.

Such hypocrisy is why the sinners of the world are given opportunity to mock the faith of Jesus that does save and justify by faith and works of His righteousness.

What the world, as with all Christians, ought be mocking is dead faith alone that justifies the unrighteous in their unrighteousness.

Sins of a Christian are not counted as sin.

So says, the faith alone hypocrite, who says he is counted as the righteous by faith alone, though he certainly is the unrighteous by works.

 

[robert derrick]

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Actions speak louder than words, and works show more than faith alone.

It takes more than faith alone to be justified with God.

 

[robert derrick]

It is so easy to have an instant expectation of disagreement with someone, such as yourself, who feels the need to set a premise with a mischaracterization, AS IF, that will buttress your point.

No one has demonized works!
Works are separate from Saving.

IF a mans works Glorify God, the man is rewarded.
IF a mans works do NOT Glorify God, the works are burned.
What does that have to do with a mans soul being saved or not? Nothing.

Are you saved by faith alone?

who feels the need to set a premise with a mischaracterization,

I don't make up anything about others, that I don't first hear from them saying it.

They say that anyone believing salvation is not by faith alone, but with works is fallen from grace.

In fact he only ones they judged going to hell is them that preaching God eternal salvation is only for them obeying and doing God's righteousness...at all times.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

What does that have to do with a mans soul being saved or not? Nothing.

Justification with God has everything to do with salvation by God, and man is only justified with God by works of faith: there is no justification with God, until the works of faith seen prove the faith unseen has any substance to it.

No man is saved by faith alone without works, because no man is justified with God by faith alone without works.

And of course faith alone is dead. No man is saved by dead faith.

No one has demonized works! Works are separate from Saving.

As I said, you just demonized any works having anything to do with salvation of the soul.

Scripture does demonize works without faith as it were by the law pertaining to salvation, as falling from grace.

You say anyone obeying Jesus and doing His righteousness for eternal salvation is falling from grace.

Since you want to trust in a dead faith alone to save you, you therefore believe even the works of God's righteousness has nothing to do with his salvation.

What does God save a soul to do, if not to live righteously, holily, and unblameably in this life. Celebrate grace going on still in unrighteousness?

If a mans works Glorify God, the man is rewarded. IF a mans works do NOT Glorify God, the works are burned.

I Cor 3 is about ministry: works of ministry.

The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, even if they do trust in dead faith alone and celebrate blind grace.

 

[Taken]

who feels the need to set a premise with a mischaracterization,

I don't make up anything about others, that I don't first hear from them saying it.

@robert derrick post #37
“I have wondered in the past why the faith alone crowd have always demonized any and all works pertaining to salvation.... “

Ya sure.

 

[MatthewG]

Consider this, reader,

Yes faith alone is dead. (Encouragement read all of the letter of James).

How can you have an active faith if you are not praying and seeking out to have a relationship with God that requires for you according to Jesus to love God first, with all your heart, mind, and soul and to love others as yourself?

How can you have any active faith if you’re not seeking out God? (Hebrews 11:6)

In love,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[robert derrick]

I came to look upon the faith/works recently in a different way when I realise the difference between our definition of works ( a physical act of doing something ) and the definition that it could also mean ‘ putting faith into action ‘ …which means trusting.
The verses you have shared kind of shows that, it was the mans faith that brought about an impact that was evident.
His faith showed it’s self as working.

Many define ‘ works ‘ as being good to others, but even non believers can do good works.
Just seen an ad for one of the local churches that I like, they are doing a series on James, they sum up what I was meaning by the title they have chosen ‘ Faith that works ‘
Thanks for the verses Taken x
Rita

Many define ‘ works ‘ as being good to others, but even non believers can do good works.

Scripture defines works of faith as works of God's righteousness in all things, and only them that do it are them that afre made the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor 5)

‘ putting faith into action ‘ …which means trusting.
Good point, which gets to the heart of how faith alone is dead: it doesn't exist. It has no Spirit of life to live it.

Which means doing the faith first by purifying our hearts and ourselves in this life, even as He is pure: to purge all lust of the world.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Obedience to the faith of God begins in the heart, to resist the temptation of the devil, that he should flee from us.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Them who trust in faith alone to save a man by, which Scripture says no to, also say they have no responsibility for their salvation, and so their faith alone is DOA, since they refuse obeying the faith in the heart and from the heart has anything to do with being saved by God.

God forgives and cleanses every soul believing on His Son and trusting in His blood, to make us new creatures with a complete new beginning, where all sins that are past are washed away and forgotten by God.

The devil knows this, being cast outside the door that is opened to Jesus to enter in, and so he immediately begins to lie in wait at the door to enter in again with His lust of the world.

It is the Christian's responsibility of salvation and duty for our soul's sake to obey the faith and to cast down every vain imagination and thought for lust and sin: to guard and keep our hearts pure, our minds clean, and our souls from sin and transgression against God.

Only in this way can the Christian then answer the high calling of God in Christ Jesus to be saints: depart from all iniquity with clean hands unblameably in this life.

There is no faith, where their is no works of obedience in the heart and with the body.

The faith of Jesus is the faith of God's substance to obey God in the heart and from the heart.

Faith without obedience to the faith is not the faith of Jesus that saves the soul, but is the faith of man alone that trusts in himself to be saved by dead faith alone.

Just because we really want to believe something is true, doesn't make it so, which is why God has His Word written for us to know the difference between good and evil: the faith of Jesus is all good, and faith alone is evil because it's all dead.

 

[robert derrick]

No man is saved by faith alone apart from works of faith, even as no man is loving God alone apart from loving the brethren and our neighbors as ourselves:

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Faith unseen is no faith at all.

Faith with substance is seen by all.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

It's not possible to show faith without works, being alone and dead.

Let's hear from them trusting in faith alone to be saved by, also declare how loving God is alone, not needing loving others to prove it.

There is no loving God without loving our neighbor, and there is no believing God without loving God:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.

Faith alone is as dead as loving God only in the heart.

 

[robert derrick]

Consider this, reader,

Yes faith alone is dead. (Encouragement read all of the letter of James).

How can you have an active faith if you are not praying and seeking out to have a relationship with God that requires for you according to Jesus to love God first, with all your heart, mind, and soul and to love others as yourself?

How can you have any active faith if you’re not seeking out God? (Hebrews 11:6)

In love,
Matthew Gallagher

How can you have any active faith if you’re not seeking out God? (Hebrews 11:6)

And His righteousness first.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Robert,

Who is the righteousness of God?

in love,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[robert derrick]

Hello Robert,

Who is the righteousness of God?

in love,
Matthew Gallagher

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

His saints in Christ Jesus obeying the faith of Jesus, not trusting in dead faith alone to be 'saved by'.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

No: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.

Faith alone is dead, because salvation alone without doing the righteousness of God is a lie of the devil.

In love of righteousness,
Robert Derrick

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Robert,

My desire is to share these four scriptures from Romans Chapter 10 with you,


“Brethren, the pleasure indeed of my heart, and my supplication that [is] to God for Israel, is — for salvation; for I bear them testimony that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, for not knowing the righteousness of God, and their own righteousness seeking to establish, to the righteousness of God they did not submit. For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:1-4‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

In love,
Matthew Gallagher