Faith Alone is Dead

[robert derrick]

Them of faith alone to be saved by, are ever quick to condemn being saved by works of man's own righteousness, and yet they never consider to condemn being justified by man's own faith alone.

Neither do they ever acknowledge the plain difference in Scripture, between works of man's own righteousness which saves not, and the works of God's righteousness that justifies a man of faith.

And being found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

Scripture in Paul condemned works of our own righteousness, as it were by the law, and by our own faith for eternal salvation.

Scripture never condemns doing the righteousness which is of God by faith for eternal salvation, as having fallen from grace.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Works of God's righteousness by faith justifies a man for eternal salvation. They do not condemn a man as fallen from grace.

Only the devil would say that man is fallen from grace by obeying God in all things through faith, to obtain eternal salvation and attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

The faith of Jesus is of God that saves and justifies with works unto the end.

Faith alone is of the devil that saves nothing unto death.

 

[Behold]

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

When you read those verses in JAMES......you have to understand the context.

James is saying this.....>"my works before OTHER PEOPLE .(men), show YOU my FAITH".

See that?
That is what James teaches........"I will show YOU......(people) my Faith by my WORKS"..

James does not have to show GOD his faith, as GOD can read the motive and intent of Jame's Heart.
So, that is why James says......>>"I will show YOU my faith, by MY WORKS".

What is he teaching?
He's teaching us that we can talk a good talk, but when people SEE what you DO, then they will KNOW YOUR WORKS, that prove your FAITH.

 

[robert derrick]

As the majority of posters will let you know (sooner or later), you are really the heretic sowing seeds of spiritual confusion. You just ignored Scripture to make a personal attack. Did you even understand what that passage was saying in order to refute your NONSENSE?

You just ignored Scripture to make a personal attack.

I just ignored your error of Scripture to return your accusation in kind:

You continue to misrepresent and contradict the doctrine of justification by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING.

I.e. to you, I am an heretic, and to me you are.

Did you even understand what that passage was saying in order to refute your NONSENSE?

I understand what you are adding to the passage is nonsense.

To which I did not ignore but refuted it:

justification by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Since you cannot see, or will not acknowledge, the contradiction of your words with Scripture, then there really is no basis for us to have any kind of common discussion.

And so, post what you like, as will I, but I left off trying to deal with you personally before, and will now do so again.

 

[Behold]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

You are not reading ALL that James says....

He says that he does those WORKS....before OTHER PEOPLE...........not before GOD.

So, He is explaining that if you (a CHRISTIAN) talk talk talk, but you do not DO the WORKS that people expect of a BELIEVER, then they will know your faith is DEAD....because it IS.
You are backslidden. You faith is COLD AS DEATH.

That is what James is Teaching.....when he explains....... "" I will show YOU my works"....I will show YOU my faith".

Not GOD.

But other PEOPLE.

Robert, put down the commentaries and STUDY THE NEW TESTAMENT.

 

[robert derrick]

Really?
Discussing Faith on a Christian forum, needs be clarified it is Spiritual Faith?

Spiritual faith? Where did that come from? What is that? Like faith alone in the air, that no man can see? I spiritually believe Him, though I physically disobey Him? Yeah, that sounds like OSAS of empty-headed faith me.

No Scripture speaks of 'spiritual faith' vs physically seen faith.

What needs to be clarified is the difference that Scripture makes between the faith of Jesus that obeys Him in all things, verses the faith of man alone that is dead, which may obey Him and may not, depending on the faith of the man.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have the faith of Jesus according to the Scripture, therefore I know I am commanded to obey Him from the heart in all things for eternal salvation.

I do not begrudge nor resent that, because I love Him and love to obey Him, and retain the fear of the Lord not to turn back from obeying Him.

I have no problem with doing righteousness in all things to be justified of Him and attain to His resurrection of the dead.

Them of faith alone to be saved by, have an ever abundant and persistent personal problem with obeying Him by commandment for eternal salvation.

They have a faith of their own for salvation, and reject the faith of Jesus to obey Him for their salvation.

There faith is their own and alone, and so their salvation is alone and their own, and no Scripture speaking of doing the works of God 's righteousness shall not enter therein:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Them not doing the righteousness of God at all times are neither justified of God nor blessed of God.

Faith without works is dead and can save no man.

Simple.

 

[Behold]

Faith without works is dead and can save no man.

Dont teach that Faith is the Savior..

Faith is not the Savior.
Faith can't save you.

God is the Savior, and the means is the Cross of Christ.
God saves you THROUGH your FAITH.....
So, its not faith that saves.....>Its GOD who saves you , when you give Him your faith in Christ.

"the will of God is that you believe on JESUS whom God sent".

"all that call on the name of Jesus shall be SAVED"

WHY?
Because God said......if you will BELIEVE.....If you will give me your FAITH in MY SON.........I WILL SAVE YOU.
I WILL Give you my very Righteousness, and you will become 'Made Righteous"., and THAT is how you are saved.
You are 'made Righteous", by God. = Born again.

 

[robert derrick]

Did someone make that ridiculous claim?
Uh no.
So why are you wondering if that is so?

I have wondered in the past why the faith alone crowd have always demonized any and all works pertaining to salvation, and refuse always to make any difference between God's works by faith and man's works of his own faith.

They say any works having to do with, and accompanying God's salvation, is heresy of works for salvation by which we fall from grace.

I have wondered why they say so in the past, and now I know.

They want to believe in salvation by faith alone, independent of any and all works in this life, so that their salvation has no dependence on any works they may do.

Salvation by faith alone is untouchable by God or man: no good works must be allowed to accompany it for salvation, and no evil works can disannul their salvation unto eternal life.

Now, if you do not agree with that, and it is as strange to you as it is to me, then simply acknowledge no man can be saved by faith alone without works, even as man can only be justified by works, and not by faith alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Christ4Me]

Spiritual faith? Where did that come from? What is that? Like faith alone in the air, that no man can see? I spiritually believe Him, though I physically disobey Him? Yeah, that sounds like OSAS of empty-headed faith me.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

OSAS, but Jesus is warning believers to be ready for the Bridegroom or else be cut off, cast off, left behind, but still in His kingdom of Heaven.

No Scripture speaks of 'spiritual faith' vs physically seen faith.

We were discussing spiritual faith in by believing in him to be born again of the spirit and physically seeing that faith in God's providence when the issuer leads by example.

What needs to be clarified is the difference that Scripture makes between the faith of Jesus that obeys Him in all things, verses the faith of man alone that is dead, which may obey Him and may not, depending on the faith of the man.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have the faith of Jesus according to the Scripture, therefore I know I am commanded to obey Him from the heart in all things for eternal salvation.

I do not begrudge nor resent that, because I love Him and love to obey Him, and retain the fear of the Lord not to turn back from obeying Him.

I have no problem with doing righteousness in all things to be justified of Him and attain to His resurrection of the dead.

Them of faith alone to be saved by, have an ever abundant and persistent personal problem with obeying Him by commandment for eternal salvation.

They have a faith of their own for salvation, and reject the faith of Jesus to obey Him for their salvation.[/QUOTE]

To obey Jesus for their salvation is to believe Him that they are saved for believing in Him.

There faith is their own and alone, and so their salvation is alone and their own, and no Scripture speaking of doing the works of God 's righteousness shall not enter therein:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Them not doing the righteousness of God at all times are neither justified of God nor blessed of God.

Faith without works is dead and can save no man.

Simple.

Not so simple because running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily is not for obtaining our salvation, but for obtaining the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House received by the Bridegroom to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

Those who are not ready are still His, even former believers which deny Him and will be denied by Him, but because He is faithful, He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul gives an example of a former believer nevertheless even they are still called to depart from iniquity because that foundation stands sure as that seal of adoption which can never be removed.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Now may the Lord help you not to blink. If one departs from iniquity, they become vessels unto honor; so that means those who do not depart from iniquity are the vessels unto dishonor, but still in His Great House as vessels of wood & earth.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

I ask how can that be? The answer is so they can testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe, even in His name.

You need to acknowledge Him as your Savior now and running that race as a saved believer for the high prize of our calling to obtain that eternal glory which comes with our salvation of being that vessel unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver.

 

[robert derrick]

When you read those verses in JAMES......you have to understand the context.

James is saying this.....>"my works before OTHER PEOPLE .(men), show YOU my FAITH".

See that?
That is what James teaches........"I will show YOU......(people) my Faith by my WORKS"..

James does not have to show GOD his faith, as GOD can read the motive and intent of Jame's Heart.
So, that is why James says......>>"I will show YOU my faith, by MY WORKS".

What is he teaching?
He's teaching us that we can talk a good talk, but when people SEE what you DO, then they will KNOW YOUR WORKS, that prove your FAITH.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

However

He's teaching us that we can talk a good talk, but when people SEE what you DO, then they will KNOW YOUR WORKS, that prove your FAITH.

Scripture in James is not speaking of being a good witness to others, but is speaking of not being saved by faith alone.

James does not have to show GOD his faith, as GOD can read the motive and intent of Jame's Heart.

God is telling His people, that even as man cannot see their faith without works, neither does He. He wants to see doing His righteousness on earth even more than man does. He is telling us that He is not some spirit in the air that knows we are good in the heart, even if no man can see it in the flesh:

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Scripture in James is not speaking of showing others how saved we are, but is telling us God sees none of His faith in our hearts, if He sees not His righteousness in our lives: faith alone is dead and unseen by God Himself.

Faith evidenced by works is acknowledged by God as being of substance by which He can justify us in His sight.

God is telling us like any normal person on earth how faith unseen by works is dead and cannot be saving man.

God is telling us that He agrees exactly what man says about faith alone: Faith alone without works is dead and can justify no man, much less save him.

That is the common sense judgement of any sane person on earth, that Scripture confirms to rebuke them who like to think otherwise: "My works don't show it, but I'm saved anyway, because God sees my heart."

Both God and man says rubbish to that.

He is teaching us that the hypocrisy man sees is the same hypocrisy that God sees:

The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

When man judges that faith alone Christians, having not works to justify their claimed faith, are a bunch of hypocrites, God agrees.

If any Christian thinks for one second that Jesus sees past their dead works of the world to try and find faith in their hearts to save them by, they are worthy of greater judgement than the Assyrians that destroyed the kingdom of Israel.

 

[robert derrick]

Dont teach that Faith is the Savior..

Faith is not the Savior.
Faith can't save you.

God is the Savior, and the means is the Cross of Christ.
God saves you THROUGH your FAITH.....
So, its not faith that saves.....>Its GOD who saves you , when you give Him your faith in Christ.

"the will of God is that you believe on JESUS whom God sent".

"all that call on the name of Jesus shall be SAVED"

WHY?
Because God said......if you will BELIEVE.....If you will give me your FAITH in MY SON.........I WILL SAVE YOU.
I WILL Give you my very Righteousness, and you will become 'Made Righteous"., and THAT is how you are saved.
You are 'made Righteous", by God. = Born again.

Dont teach that Faith is the Savior.

Thank you. You are at least reading what I am saying and understanding the point.

However

So, its not faith that saves.....

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

I go by the faith of Scripture, not by the faith of man.

The faith of Jesus is His Word. We are born by faith and His word, and we are born to obey the faith, which is to obey Him.

The faith of Jesus and Jesus the Word are not separated in any way from one to the other: Christ is not divided from His faith.

You are 'made Righteous", by God. = Born again.

We are imputed righteousness by His faith. We are made righteous, when we do His righteousness and justified thereby.

If we are not doing His righteousness, it is because we are not made righteous by Him: made righteous is being righteous, and being righteous is doing righteousness.

Imputed righteousness is to be saved, and made righteous is to be justified: there is not one without the other, even as there is not the faith of Jesus without obeying Him in works of His righteousness.

No man is saved by faith alone, and no man is made righteous and justified by faith alone.

Salvation by faith is not separate from justification by works of faith.

That is the dead faith of man, not the living faith of God in them that are justified by living the faith:

The just shall live by faith.

The unjust shall die by faith alone.

 

[mailmandan]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

We need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[robert derrick]

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

OSAS, but Jesus is warning believers to be ready for the Bridegroom or else be cut off, cast off, left behind, but still in His kingdom of Heaven.



We were discussing spiritual faith in by believing in him to be born again of the spirit and physically seeing that faith in God's providence when the issuer leads by example.



I do not begrudge nor resent that, because I love Him and love to obey Him, and retain the fear of the Lord not to turn back from obeying Him.

I have no problem with doing righteousness in all things to be justified of Him and attain to His resurrection of the dead.

Them of faith alone to be saved by, have an ever abundant and persistent personal problem with obeying Him by commandment for eternal salvation.

They have a faith of their own for salvation, and reject the faith of Jesus to obey Him for their salvation.

To obey Jesus for their salvation is to believe Him that they are saved for believing in Him.



Not so simple because running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily is not for obtaining our salvation, but for obtaining the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House received by the Bridegroom to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

Those who are not ready are still His, even former believers which deny Him and will be denied by Him, but because He is faithful, He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul gives an example of a former believer nevertheless even they are still called to depart from iniquity because that foundation stands sure as that seal of adoption which can never be removed.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Now may the Lord help you not to blink. If one departs from iniquity, they become vessels unto honor; so that means those who do not depart from iniquity are the vessels unto dishonor, but still in His Great House as vessels of wood & earth.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

I ask how can that be? The answer is so they can testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe, even in His name.

You need to acknowledge Him as your Savior now and running that race as a saved believer for the high prize of our calling to obtain that eternal glory which comes with our salvation of being that vessel unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver.[/QUOTE]
More than glad to see you here. Always a pleasure, I assure you. You are one of the few that answers with Scripture and discretion, without blanket denial of something you don't like to hear. I am the same.

I delayed starting this thread, until after your last post on Justification by Works, because I didn't want to intrude upon your time in answering my last statements.

I was going to give my objects to your doctrine of two faiths to save our souls and to bless others by (which I used in a previous post above), but if you would like, we could do so in private first.

Here however is another unique teaching of yours I alluded to elsewhere, about not finishing the race, yet not be destroyed thereby.

You are unique indeed, and I have no doubt whatsoever you seek at all times to do the righteousness of God by faith without hypocrisy, even though I disagree with your faith alone doctrine for salvation.

It's not so much the doctrine itself that is destructive in itself, but what it certainly leads to them that seek license to do so: ongoing unrepented sins and trespasses unto death, yet believing in unconditional salvation of the soul despite it.

I do not make these things up, but only report them as I have seen them declared from others.

 

[ScottA]

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

That would be true in more ways than one.

If one were saved on their death bed, could do nothing but had faith, then died...the same would be true.

 

[robert derrick]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

We need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

I understand your point.

However, you are still equating being justified by works as being saved by works in a fallen way.

It is simple: God's doctrine of Christ includes both salvation and justification: by faith and by works, and there is not one without the other, so that to speak of the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God, as being saved apart from being justified by works, is false.

'Initially' is one of those words of man's faith that is neither found nor taught in Scripture. In fact, if anyone wants to speak of 'initially', then Scripturally they must speak of repenting 'initially' and then believing:

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

No man is 'initially' saved by faith alone apart from works, even as no man 'initially' loves God alone apart from loving His neighbor as Himself: it is love born in the heart by faith to do it.

Especially when that 'initial' stuff of faith alone is extended unto death as separate from the obedience of justification.

What is lacking with 'faith alone saves', is that Scriptural obedience begins in the heart, not in the body. There is no 'time difference' between 'initially' believing God and 'initially' obeying God, no more than there is any time difference between the Son obeying the Father.

Our obedience to the faith begins with faith in the heart to purify our hearts and cleanse our minds of all lust and vain imagination for thought of sin, before we ever begin to do so in the body, which becomes the evidence of the faith of Jesus seen by all.

What God sees that man cannot see, is our obedience to the faith in the heart, by which we have obedience to the faith in the body: God never sees faith alone anywhere, because it is dead, being without obedience.

Once any soul believes Jesus for eternal salvation, that soul obeys Jesus to purify their heart and mind, which will be immediately attacked by sin lying at the door.

Once we believe God unto salvation, we are cleansed by God's blood from all unrighteousness in the soul and lust from the heart, and the devil knows it, because he has been cast down and out as the prince and power of the air in our lives, to find himself with rage sitting at the door of our hearts, now looking in from the outside, while God by His Spirit looks outside from within:

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The justified works of obedience begins in the heart, and that is what God sees before man sees: the obedience to the faith in the heart, not dead faith alone that obeys nothing, that does not do the work of guarding the heart from lust at the door, and so does not keep the body from committing sins of the flesh:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The faith of Jesus is not the faith of man that is alone in the heart, without having obedience in the heart and over the body.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

This is the repentance we are commanded to do in the heart, that we may believe the gospel and seek to do His righteousness first in the body.

Doing God's salvation by faith does not begin in the soul, until we repent of all dead works from the heart. This is the only way of Christ to then do all his righteousness by faith: it is His new and living way justified by living His faith.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The faith of man alone does right some of the time and evil some of the time, only according to his faith at the time. That is not the fatih that saves the soul at all.

 

[robert derrick]

That would be true in more ways than one.

If one were saved on their death bed, could do nothing but had faith, then died...the same would be true.

That is a reasonable thought, however:

could do nothing but had faith.

There is never doing nothing but having faith in this life.

The good fight and work of defending the faith in the heart, from the devil seeking to put lust back in the heart, begins immediately upon repenting and believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The devil our adversary never rests, but only flees when we resist Him by submitting ourselves to God in repentance of dead works.

The weapons of our warfare begin in the heart: even on and especially on the death bed, we are to cast down every imagination and thought for sin against the devil seeking to get back in.

No man obtains eternal salvation in the end by faith alone without the good work of God to resist the devil and endure temptation unto the end.

The lie of the devil before believing Jesus for forgiveness of all sins that are past, is that Jesus will not forgive us. And the lie of the devil after believing Jesus for cleansing us of all sins from the soul, is that we are not truly cleansed, but we must still go on to sin some more.

All sin begins with lust allowed in the heart to be drawn away from the faith of God thereby (James 1), and it is allowing the devil to put lust in the heart that is disobedience to the faith of Jesus, who never allowed lust to take hold of His mind, that He should obey it in the body:

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The war to overcome sin in the body begins in the heart to obey His faith, and it is this good fight that God sees in the heart that is counted for righteousness and justified by works.

Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness, and Abraham resisted the lies of the devil in the heart, that God was lying to him. He was thus justified when He offered up Isaac on the altar, believing that God would raise him from the dead if necessary, no matter what fiery darts the devil was throwing at him all the while:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Faith and works worked together to perfect faith and be justified by works: there is not one without the other.

Faith alone is dead, because faith of man alone will not resist the lies of the devil and guard the heart from lust by his own will: only them with the faith of Jesus will do so by the commandment of the Father and the power of the Spirit:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Obedience to the faith begins in the heart to bring into captivity every thought to obedience of Christ: this is when we have the mind of Christ in deed and in truth to both believe and to do of His good will, and not just in our own imagination by faith alone, thinking doing it has nothing to do with being saved by it.

 

[Christ4Me]

More than glad to see you here. Always a pleasure, I assure you. You are one of the few that answers with Scripture and discretion, without blanket denial of something you don't like to hear. I am the same.

I delayed starting this thread, until after your last post on Justification by Works, because I didn't want to intrude upon your time in answering my last statements.

I was going to give my objects to your doctrine of two faiths to save our souls and to bless others by (which I used in a previous post above), but if you would like, we could do so in private first.

I sincerely hope you are asking Him if you are not missing anything or that there is something preventing you from seeing the truth in that regard.

I trust Him to do the same for me.

Here however is another unique teaching of yours I alluded to elsewhere, about not finishing the race, yet not be destroyed thereby.

You are unique indeed, and I have no doubt whatsoever you seek at all times to do the righteousness of God by faith without hypocrisy, even though I disagree with your faith alone doctrine for salvation.

I do wonder what the Good News of Jesus Christ for you is. How can you testify that Jesus is your Savior unless you are saved by believing in Him?

It's not so much the doctrine itself that is destructive in itself, but what it certainly leads to them that seek license to do so: ongoing unrepented sins and trespasses unto death, yet believing in unconditional salvation of the soul despite it.

I do not make these things up, but only report them as I have seen them declared from others.

Then refer them to this thread and pray for them; What Happens To Willfully Sinning Christians

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Taken]

Faith without works is dead and can save no man.
Simple.

Faith is a Gift To Man, From God, For the man Hearing Gods Word.
A Gift of Faith a man receives requires Gods Works to Save the man.
There are no works a man MUST DO, to receive Gods Works of God Giving the man Salvation.

So who’s works are you talking about?
Gods Works?
A mans works?

 

[Taken]

I have wondered in the past why the faith alone crowd have always demonized any and all works pertaining to salvation....

It is so easy to have an instant expectation of disagreement with someone, such as yourself, who feels the need to set a premise with a mischaracterization, AS IF, that will buttress your point.

No one has demonized works!
Works are separate from Saving.

IF a mans works Glorify God, the man is rewarded.
IF a mans works do NOT Glorify God, the works are burned.
What does that have to do with a mans soul being saved or not? Nothing.

 

[Christ4Me]

Faith without works is dead and can save no man.

Simple.

Would the issue be resolved by knowing what expectations God has in men as sinners and even after we get saved?

God's Trust in Us

 

[Rita]

Faith Alone is Dead
OP ^

Jesus says:

Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Mark 5:
[34] And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Luke 18:
[42] And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Mark 10:
[52] And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Who ya going to Trust?

I came to look upon the faith/works recently in a different way when I realise the difference between our definition of works ( a physical act of doing something ) and the definition that it could also mean ‘ putting faith into action ‘ …which means trusting.
The verses you have shared kind of shows that, it was the mans faith that brought about an impact that was evident.
His faith showed it’s self as working.

Many define ‘ works ‘ as being good to others, but even non believers can do good works.
Just seen an ad for one of the local churches that I like, they are doing a series on James, they sum up what I was meaning by the title they have chosen ‘ Faith that works ‘
Thanks for the verses Taken x
Rita