Faith Alone is Dead

[Rita]

@Taken @robert derrick I have been reading but just haven’t had much time over the last few days to sit and respond to what you have both said in response to my post. I am hoping to have some time today xx
Rita

 

[Taken]

@Taken @robert derrick I have been reading but just haven’t had much time over the last few days to sit and respond to what you have both said in response to my post. I am hoping to have some time today xx
Rita

No issue Rita. I think we all have constant multitasking things to address. Your posts indicate you have a busy full plate.
May God Bless you abundantly,

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Faith Alone is Dead
OP ^

Faith Alone is NOT Dead.
Faith is a Gift from God, Given to men in measures, From the size comparable of a mustard seed to the size of fullness.

Point being; God does not Give men “DEAD GIFTS”.

 

[MatthewG]

@Taken,

Here are the scriptures in which Robert was addressing.


“so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.

for as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also the faith apart from the works is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:17, 26‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

 

[Taken]

@Taken,

Here are the scriptures in which Robert was addressing.


“so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.

for as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also the faith apart from the works is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:17, 26‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

And the point?

Dead faith........means WHAT exactly?

 

[mailmandan]

I understand your point.

However, you are still equating being justified by works as being saved by works in a fallen way.

It is simple: God's doctrine of Christ includes both salvation and justification: by faith and by works, and there is not one without the other, so that to speak of the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God, as being saved apart from being justified by works, is false.

'Initially' is one of those words of man's faith that is neither found nor taught in Scripture. In fact, if anyone wants to speak of 'initially', then Scripturally they must speak of repenting 'initially' and then believing:

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

No man is 'initially' saved by faith alone apart from works, even as no man 'initially' loves God alone apart from loving His neighbor as Himself: it is love born in the heart by faith to do it.

Especially when that 'initial' stuff of faith alone is extended unto death as separate from the obedience of justification.

What is lacking with 'faith alone saves', is that Scriptural obedience begins in the heart, not in the body. There is no 'time difference' between 'initially' believing God and 'initially' obeying God, no more than there is any time difference between the Son obeying the Father.

Our obedience to the faith begins with faith in the heart to purify our hearts and cleanse our minds of all lust and vain imagination for thought of sin, before we ever begin to do so in the body, which becomes the evidence of the faith of Jesus seen by all.

What God sees that man cannot see, is our obedience to the faith in the heart, by which we have obedience to the faith in the body: God never sees faith alone anywhere, because it is dead, being without obedience.

Once any soul believes Jesus for eternal salvation, that soul obeys Jesus to purify their heart and mind, which will be immediately attacked by sin lying at the door.

Once we believe God unto salvation, we are cleansed by God's blood from all unrighteousness in the soul and lust from the heart, and the devil knows it, because he has been cast down and out as the prince and power of the air in our lives, to find himself with rage sitting at the door of our hearts, now looking in from the outside, while God by His Spirit looks outside from within:

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The justified works of obedience begins in the heart, and that is what God sees before man sees: the obedience to the faith in the heart, not dead faith alone that obeys nothing, that does not do the work of guarding the heart from lust at the door, and so does not keep the body from committing sins of the flesh:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The faith of Jesus is not the faith of man that is alone in the heart, without having obedience in the heart and over the body.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

This is the repentance we are commanded to do in the heart, that we may believe the gospel and seek to do His righteousness first in the body.

Doing God's salvation by faith does not begin in the soul, until we repent of all dead works from the heart. This is the only way of Christ to then do all his righteousness by faith: it is His new and living way justified by living His faith.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The faith of man alone does right some of the time and evil some of the time, only according to his faith at the time. That is not the fatih that saves the soul at all.

I do not equate being justified by works as being saved by works. (Romans 4:2-3) Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 4:5-6; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony

 

[MatthewG]

And the point?

Dead faith........means WHAT exactly?

Hello Taken,

The point is the scripture indicates on the subject of dead faith, my encouragement would be to read the entire book of James.

in love,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Rita]

No issue Rita. I think we all have constant multitasking things to address. Your posts indicate you have a busy full plate.
May God Bless you abundantly,

Glory to God,
Taken

Thanks taken,
I tried to respond but I just find myself agreeing with different aspects of what has been said , but not really able to put a response together. Lol

 

[robert derrick]

Faith Alone is Dead
OP ^

Faith Alone is NOT Dead.
Faith is a Gift from God, Given to men in measures, From the size comparable of a mustard seed to the size of fullness.

Point being; God does not Give men “DEAD GIFTS”.

Faith Alone is NOT Dead.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Faith that is alone is dead.

Faith is a Gift from God.

The faith of Jesus is the gift of God that saves, not dead faith alone, which is of man, not of God, even as the faith of Allah is given by man, not by God.

Plainly contradicting Scripture is DOA, when trying to teach the faith of Jesus and doctrine of Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Thanks taken,
I tried to respond but I just find myself agreeing with different aspects of what has been said , but not really able to put a response together. Lol

Take your time. I look forward to any thoughtful Scriptural responses.

 

[robert derrick]

And the point?

Dead faith........means WHAT exactly?

Dead faith........means WHAT exactly?

Do what the man has said and read the Scriptures for yourself, and then you can answer the question for us:

What does God say dead faith is. Exactly.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Taken]

Dead faith........means WHAT exactly?

Do what the man has said and read the Scriptures for yourself, and then you can answer the question for us:

What does God say dead faith is. Exactly.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It seems you have a issue with justification. I don’t.

I believe God Himself Justified my Belief, by me doing what He set forth for me to Receive His Gift of Faith.

I believe God Himself Justified my Salvation, by me doing what He set forth for me to Receive His Gift of Salvation.

I believe God Himself Justifies my Works, that glorify Him, by me doing what He set forth as Works that glorify Him...

Rom 2:
[5] ....God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

and THE Son of Man, SHALL reward me WHEN HE RETURNS.
Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[PinSeeker]

Faith Alone is NOT dead. Faith is a Gift from God, Given to men in measures, From the size comparable of a mustard seed to the size of fullness. Point being; God does not Give men “DEAD GIFTS”.

Well, faith without works to validate it is dead. But yes, faith is a spiritual gift, given by God at the time of the conversion of one's heart by the working of the Spirit. Good works are the outward evidence of God-given faith. Without works, the "faith" one has, if it could be called faith at all, cannot be not God-given and therefore not of God, not of the Spirit, and is therefore dead.

Good works are the fruit of the Spirit, who is not present in those who remain unsaved, not born again of the Spirit. That person may do good things, and even a lot of them, but they are not honored or accepted by God but are rather filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), just as Cain's offering to God was. In that case, they're just failed attempts at self-justification, and therefore, again, dead.

This is what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2 when he writes:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."​

... and also in Philippians 2 when he (Paul) writes:

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."​

...and Peter is saying the same thing in 2 Peter 1 when he writes:

"Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."​

...and, finally, what James is saying in James 2 when he writes:

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? ... So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead... Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works... Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? ... You see that faith was active along with (Abraham's) works, and faith was completed by his works... You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."​

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Taken]

Well, faith without works to validate it is dead. But yes, faith is a spiritual gift, given by God at the time of the conversion of one's heart by the working of the Spirit. Good works are the outward evidence of God-given faith. Without works, the "faith" one has, if it could be called faith at all, cannot be not God-given and therefore not of God, not of the Spirit, and is therefore dead.

Agree, faith one HAS, gives one the ability to DO good works, that Glorify God.

Which is to say, Faith and works are separate things.
Faith is a gift from God, For Hearing the Word of God.
A man With Faith, is prepared to Confess His belief to God...
....or not....That is a mans freewill choice.
Works that Glorify God, comes after having received the gift of Faith...
...or not.... That is a mans freewill choice. (He can take credit for all good works he does) or (He can give God the credit for all good works he does.)
...Give the credit to God....The Son of man shall reward that individual.

Good works are the fruit of the Spirit, who is not present in those who remain unsaved, not born again of the Spirit. That person may do good things, and even a lot of them, but they are not honored or accepted by God but are rather filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), just as Cain's offering to God was. In that case, they're just failed attempts at self-justification, and therefore, again, dead.

Okay, thanks.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Faith Alone is Dead
OP ^

Faith Alone is NOT Dead.
Faith is a Gift from God, Given to men in measures, From the size comparable of a mustard seed to the size of fullness.

Point being; God does not Give men “DEAD GIFTS”.

I think people get confused by the wording

There is no such thing as faith alone. A dead faith is no faith at all. It is lifeless. It has no power to do anything. It is mere belief.

It can not save because it does not trust

It can not work, because it can not trust.

So the misnomer “faith alone” is just that, a misnomer, because there is no such thing.

 

[robert derrick]

It seems you have a issue with justification. I don’t.

I believe God Himself Justified my Belief, by me doing what He set forth for me to Receive His Gift of Faith.

I believe God Himself Justified my Salvation, by me doing what He set forth for me to Receive His Gift of Salvation.

I believe God Himself Justifies my Works, that glorify Him, by me doing what He set forth as Works that glorify Him...

Rom 2:
[5] ....God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

and THE Son of Man, SHALL reward me WHEN HE RETURNS.
Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

No answer to your own question of what is Dead faith according to the Scripture?

 

[robert derrick]

Well, faith without works to validate it is dead. But yes, faith is a spiritual gift, given by God at the time of the conversion of one's heart by the working of the Spirit. Good works are the outward evidence of God-given faith. Without works, the "faith" one has, if it could be called faith at all, cannot be not God-given and therefore not of God, not of the Spirit, and is therefore dead.

Good works are the fruit of the Spirit, who is not present in those who remain unsaved, not born again of the Spirit. That person may do good things, and even a lot of them, but they are not honored or accepted by God but are rather filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), just as Cain's offering to God was. In that case, they're just failed attempts at self-justification, and therefore, again, dead.

This is what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2 when he writes:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."​

... and also in Philippians 2 when he (Paul) writes:

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."​

...and Peter is saying the same thing in 2 Peter 1 when he writes:

"Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."​

...and, finally, what James is saying in James 2 when he writes:

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? ... So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead... Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works... Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? ... You see that faith was active along with (Abraham's) works, and faith was completed by his works... You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."​

Grace and peace to all.

Well, faith without works to validate it is dead.

I applaud you for proving me wrong. I said many times no one believing in being saved by faith apart from works, would ever even acknowledge the Scriptural difference between self-righteousness without faith, and doing the righteousness of God by faith.

You have done so.

That person may do good things, and even a lot of them, but they are not honored or accepted by God but are rather filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), just as Cain's offering to God was. In that case, they're just failed attempts at self-justification, and therefore, again, dead.

Admirably.

 

[PinSeeker]

Well, faith without works to validate it is dead.

I applaud you for proving me wrong. I said many times no one believing in being saved by faith apart from works, would ever even acknowledge the Scriptural difference between self-righteousness without faith, and doing the righteousness of God by faith.

You have done so.

That person may do good things, and even a lot of them, but they are not honored or accepted by God but are rather filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), just as Cain's offering to God was. In that case, they're just failed attempts at self-justification, and therefore, again, dead.

Admirably.

AH! Humility! I love it!

Grace and peace to you, RobertDerrick.

 

[robert derrick]

AH! Humility! I love it!

Grace and peace to you, RobertDerrick.

Well, If I wasn't humble, then I would be a sinner, no wouldn't I?

And God bless you for posting such good substance.

 

[robert derrick]

Agree, faith one HAS, gives one the ability to DO good works, that Glorify God.

Which is to say, Faith and works are separate things.
Faith is a gift from God, For Hearing the Word of God.
A man With Faith, is prepared to Confess His belief to God...
....or not....That is a mans freewill choice.
Works that Glorify God, comes after having received the gift of Faith...
...or not.... That is a mans freewill choice. (He can take credit for all good works he does) or (He can give God the credit for all good works he does.)
...Give the credit to God....The Son of man shall reward that individual.



Okay, thanks.

Agree, faith one HAS, gives one the ability to DO good works, that Glorify God.

True.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Which is to say, Faith and works are separate things.

False.

The only works 'separate' from faith are works of unbelief. Even as the only thing separate from the commandment is disobedience.

The faith one has is the faith one does: no doing, no having.