Gluttony

[aspen]

Gluttony is a lifestyle sin that leads to drug and alcohol addiction, and obesity. American's are currently suffering from an epidemic of obesity and obesity related illnesses like diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure and joint disorders. Many people point out that gluttony does not necessarily cause obesity.....in fact, due to the large amount of Americans that are overweight, there is a big push to take out the morality from this disorder. In is true that a small amount of overweight people have co-current disorders that have contributed to their weight gain, but the primary causes of obesity are too many calories, poor diet and not enough exercise. Obesity kills millions more people per year than AIDS.

Like homosexuals, obese people have came together and formed political lobbies to force clothing companies to carry plus sizes and airlines and hotels to provide special accommodations.


After reading the many homosexual threads on Christian boards, I was surprised to find nothing on gluttony. Also, I was surprised to find many overweight Americans attending church.....some were even in the pulpit! So why is this? Why are we not warning all the overweight people we see that gluttony is a sin and that they are on the road to Hell? Why are we giving them false hope that they can be Christians and gluttons? Currently, there is no weight restriction for reciting the sinners prayer, being baptized, or being ordained - aren't we leading thousands of overweight people down to the Pit?

Calling all Christians! Next time you see a homosexual and you want to tell him he is going to Hell; turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell, before approaching the homosexual. Chances are that, unlike the homosexual, they have never heard that message before.

 

[Duckybill]

Aspen you clearly have a pro homosexual agenda. Why is that?

 

[aspen]

Aspen you clearly have a pro homosexual agenda. Why is that?

I have a pro-consistency agenda.

You clearly have an avoid the issue agenda, why don't you address the OP?

 

[Duckybill]

I have a pro-consistency agenda.

You clearly have an avoid the issue agenda, why don't you address the OP?

You stated that every homosexual you know is aware that the Bible condemns them. So why don't they repent???

 

[aspen]

You stated that every homosexual you know is aware that the Bible condemns them. So why don't they repent???

This thread is about Gluttony. I want to know why gluttons get a free pass.

 

[Duckybill]

This thread is about Gluttony. I want to know why gluttons get a free pass.

But they don't Aspen. Why are you saying they do????? You are defending the sin of homosexuality. The question becomes WHY?

 

[aspen]

But they don't Aspen. Why are you saying they do????? You are defending the sin of homosexuality. The question becomes WHY?

Gluttons don't get a free pass? Churches are filled with gluttons and so are pulpits, Why?

 

[Duckybill]

Gluttons don't get a free pass? Churches are filled with gluttons and so are pulpits, Why?

You have already proven that you are judging people. Why?????? Stop judging people Aspen!!!

 

[aspen]

You have already proven that you are judging people. Why?????? Stop judging people Aspen!!!

Here is a perfect example of questions you are refusing to answer.

Are you throwing a sin in my face that I have asked forgiveness for? Very serious, Ducky.

Who am I judging? I am asking why the sin of gluttony is ignored in the church. It is a very simple question.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I don't know how it got so out of hand. Some people have a natural tendency for wait gain, and pregnancy can take its toll on mothers, but as far as a lifestyle of overeating is concerned, I agree that there is a lot that hasn't been addressed about it in the church. It simply comes down to: anything in our lives that we run to for our comfort and security before going to God is in disagreement with how God wants us to relate to Him. A lifestyle of gluttony can represent a lack of self control, and it isn't the best witness. As temples of the Holy Spirit, we should understand that God could call us to and through many physical hardships, and if we haven't taken care of our bodies, those hardships could be devastating, or me may miss out on important tests altogether. If I am called to be a missionary in a place stricken with poverty and I have a problem with overeating, I'll probably be opposed to my calling and God will have to find someone else.

-Sarcasm Start-

I had an idea for a message. First the audience would come in and there would be Mc Donalds lined up on the tables free for anyone to eat while they enjoyed the teaching. I would start by talking about fellowship and enjoying one another and community, etc. Then, when they least expect it and their mouths are full, SLAM em with a fire and brimstone message on gluttony.

-Sarcasm End-

For some it has become more than a lifestyle choice and has become a bondage. It still requires the knowledge that it is a problem that we want God to deal with. For every problem and coping method we struggle with, we should make sure that we are slaves to nothing and no one but Christ Jesus. That would include our physical make-up, sexuality, intellectuality, and any other part of our lifestyle that have a tendency, whether or not by birth, to counter God's direction for our lives.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Gluttony?


Maybe for some.

Obeisity problem? Yes, but what exactly are the reasons.
The biggest reason for obeisity is not over eating. It's not eating right. It's not getting enough sleep. It's stress. It's physiological. It's genetic.
I know personally of several people who have struggled with weight their whole lives. Their eating habits are hardly glutonous.

I plan on fighting in tournaments. Right now I'm in the "unlimited" catagory. That means I will be competing against 200lbs and up. In order for me to get to a weight class where I wont have to fight a 325lb guy I need to be down under something like 190lbs. Consequently, my supposed ideal weight is 180lbs. I'm 6'1" 205lbs. 10 days ago I was at 197lbs. a little over a month ago I was at 215lbs. (my 10 day vaction across the country changed my eating habits to higher carbs and more sugar).

Here is the diet plan I was on. I increased my training (which, there's actually no scientific corelation to losing weight and exercise, btw)

Breakfast, 1 12oz cup of protein shake (muscle milk), 2 hours later, 1 bowl of 2 packets of instant oatmeal. 2hrs later 4-6 hard boiled eggs without the yolk one with. Lunch 8oz to 12oz chicken breast with wild rice with a 12 bottle of milk, 2 hrs later or sometime inbetween all those a snack of 1/4 cucumber and 1/4 of a tomatoe. Not to mention the bananna somewhere inbetween. Preworkout/pretraining, I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a glass of milk. Post workout/training, I either ate a full meal or had a big bowl of raisin bran.

I lost 18lbs doing this.

On my vacation I ate 2 meals a day, which consisted one plate of some sort of meats mostly some sort of strange vegitable stuff, and another half plate of vegitables, fruit and a desert. Then, we spent 3 days in Colorado, where I ate 1 meal a day 1 an elk burger and fries, another taco bell, and another grilled skinless chicken breast and baked beans and walked all around the mountains.

This later caused me to gain almost 8 lbs. Which one sounds glutonous?

I've studied long and hard on dieting, and eating healthy and losing weight safely. I'm no expert, but, I'm not ignorant now. This experience has changed my mind on how I view over weight people.

Most obeise people just have poor eating habits, not glutony problems. People are very misinformed on diet and health, and it can become an overwhelming task to change eating habits and doing it safely and healthily.

Body Builders and fighters actually eat more than most people, and eat more than most obeise people. We just eat less calorie foods, and choose foods that supply our bodies with nutrients because we study and it's a part of our training.

Others don't because they don't fully understand, time doesn't dictate, and money doesn't dictate. Believe it or not, buying fresh fruits and vegitables get's more expensive than frozen burritos and corndogs with some chips and pop. Time doesn't allow people to eat a healthy meal throughout the day, and on top of being tired and worn out after a day of work, cooking a healthy meal doesn't happen because frozen pizza takes 10 minutes, and Little Czars is on the way home.

Some alcohol and drug related issues do stem from gluttony, however, most don't. As you being someone in the physcology field, I would expect that you know that already. (no disrespect intended).

 

[Rach1370]

This thread is about Gluttony. I want to know why gluttons get a free pass.

They don't. Or they certainly shouldn't. I think the biggest issue here is the fact that many overweight people don't consider themselves "gluttons". And to be honest, there is probably a chance that many obese people are not gluttons...they're just foolish. They throw nutrition and healthy eating away for convenience food that has the nutritional benefit of eating cardboard...flavour added by sugar and fat.
I think the real classification of "gluttony" comes when a person places actual value on food and eating. They think way too much of food, they gain an emotional comfort and high from eating. Food becomes their idol and their weight shows how much they worship their idol.
This is something I know about, sadly. My weight has always been an issue, not from bad eating really, just too much. It started young when my health began to decline...I was a comfort eater. And while I hated being big, it never really occurred to me that it might be a sin. But about a three years ago I began to listen to some of Mark Driscolls sermons...and he brought it to my attention. I started to really think about my eating then, what caused it etc, and realised that both food and comfort were becoming my idols. Not matter how hard in the past I had tried to 'diet' I had failed, but realising that there was a deeper root behind my behaviour I called out to God to help me. There was no way I was strong enough to beat this sin with my own self will....wasn't gonna happen. I spent weeks talking to God about it, really thinking through my problems, and I have no doubt that He answered me. Going on three months now I haven't eaten a single thing between meals. I don't even feel the need to, that need, that craving...it's just gone. I'm loosing weight, even being as sick as I am, and I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has had a huge hand in this.
I don't think it matters what kind of sin it may be, whether gluttony or homosexuality, but God truly does want to help us, and as hard as it may be to admit to a sin, it can only lead to freedom. I don't pretend to think that I won't have to be vigilant for the rest of my life, that it won't be a struggle at times, but having been set free from it I now know that Christ is the victor in all things, and that with His help, so am I!

 

[Duckybill]

Are you throwing a sin in my face that I have asked forgiveness for? Very serious, Ducky.

Who am I judging? I am asking why the sin of gluttony is ignored in the church. It is a very simple question.

No, I am pointing out that you consistently defend the sin of homosexuality all the while falsely judging others. You're using a smokescreen Aspen.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Gluttony is a good topic.

Let's discuss exactly what we think it is.

When exactly is consumption of products gluttony?

Obviously we can't just look at someone overweight and automatically assume they're gluttons. So, let's not use someones size and shape define gluttony.
We've discussed eating habits, such as some chosing more healthy habits, all of this defined by budget, time, and education.

Here's something to consider for "over eating". Dehydration.

Most people don't realize that they're getting dehydrated. They drink pop, coffee, or tea throughout the day. They don't realize that these are diuretics. They're actually draining water from their muscles. This affects the organs. One of the signs of dehydration is hunger. This hunger can mimic a lack of nutrients, becuase they feel weak, and shaky and hungry. So, what happens? They eat. The stomach takes water to digest, and they get dehydrated more. So, they eat more.

Dehydration also decreases your metabolism by as much as 3%, which doesn't sound like alot, but, it actually is.

So, what happens here is, what could be considered overeating. But, is it really? Any normal person eats when they're hungry, but ocassionaly we have a snack.

There's also different times of day when your body "craves" certain things, salt, sugar, and for good reason, there is something lacking in the diet. Sugar is also addictive, and is considered just as if not more addictive than heroine.

If you saw me at a buffet you might think I'm a glutton, but, you wouldn't know that that's the only meal I've had all day and most of the time I don't eat after dinner and more than likely wont eat breakfast the next day. You also wouldn't take into consideration the choices of foods that I make while I'm there. Sometimes I become "miserably" full. Is that gluttony?

Another thing to consider is the time spent eating. Taking the buffet example.
When I arrive I'm famished. Due to my day to day schedule I'm a very fast eater. What takes people normally 20 to 30 minutes to eat, I'm done in around 5.

Eating fast doesn't give your body time to digest the food properly and also doesn't give the stomach time to signal the brain that you're now full. The result is, being full but still feeling hungry. So, manytimes, we eat until we feel full. Which the intention isn't to eat as much as you can, you just feel hungry and therefore keep eating until your brain get's the signal. Up to an hour later your brain is still waiting for the signal, and then you get the miserably full feeling. Woops! :blink:

So, how do we define gluttony? And is it for food and drink only? Or is it overindulgence of everything? Is it merely overindulgence or are there other things that go along with it?

I would think gluttony would be closer to selfishness, like hoarding food, or material possessions, or money. Taking the last piece out of the bucket to make sure you get your "fair share" despite someone else not having any. Purposely over consumption of food and drink, shopping sprees, hoarders like you see on TV, extreme cuponing and the like.

Seems to me that gluttony goes much deeper than those who are "comfort eaters", or make poor choices in diet. There is definately no relation for most people that being overweight and percieved as lazy because of it, that they're also gluttons.

Where and how exactly do we define gluttony? For once there's a "sin" that's not so cut and dry in my opinion.

 

[Foreigner]

If you check the scriptures you will see that Gluttony was one of the reasons God gave for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." - Ezekiel 16:49


Provers also warns about gluttony:

"for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags." - Proverbs 23:21




As I have said in every single thread where someone wants to know why homosexuals are being "singled out"...


Homosexuality is seen by God as sin...just as murder, theft, gluttony, dishonesty, infidelity, pre-marital sex, etc. etc. etc.


The difference is that murderers, thieves, rapists, cheaters, etc. do not actively lobby to have their lifestyle be taught as an acceptable alternative in schools, protected behavior in the workplace or housing, and celebrated by parades and festivals.


Murderers, thieves, rapists, cheaters, etc. also do not try to get people who will not support their lifestyle fired from their jobs, sued for speaking out against their behavior, voted out of office for "lack of tolerance," publically humiliated for being "closed-minded," etc. etc. etc.

 

[avoice]

Gluttony is not nessarily aquinted with just overeating thats our american idea
the word used in scriptupre is sometimes translated as riotus or riotus eaters
the diffention is .......
1) to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant,

2) to make light of, squander, be lavish with

So its more about an certain attitude of selfisness that one has while being gluttonus ..

Examples might be
.If one is a contuious drunkard and becomes vile and rioutous, we'veall seen or heard of mean violent drunks

Or a rich indivdual lavishes himself with all indulgencies
while giving none to the needy.

Just overeating or being overweight alone doesnt in itself make one a glutton.
Anymore than a glass of wine with dinner makes one an acholic ...

IMO ..A glutton is anyone that over indulges in anything to the point of having a self serving squanderous attitude without thought of others or their own sins.

 

[Rach1370]

If you check the scriptures you will see that Gluttony was one of the reasons God gave for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." - Ezekiel 16:49


Provers also warns about gluttony:

"for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags." - Proverbs 23:21




As I have said in every single thread where someone wants to know why homosexuals are being "singled out"...


Homosexuality is seen by God as sin...just as murder, theft, gluttony, dishonesty, infidelity, pre-marital sex, etc. etc. etc.


The difference is that murderers, thieves, rapists, cheaters, etc. do not actively lobby to have their lifestyle be taught as an acceptable alternative in schools, protected behavior in the workplace or housing, and celebrated by parades and festivals.


Murderers, thieves, rapists, cheaters, etc. also do not try to get people who will not support their lifestyle fired from their jobs, sued for speaking out against their behavior, voted out of office for "lack of tolerance," publically humiliated for being "closed-minded," etc. etc. etc.

Very nice post Foreigner. I think you highlighted the issues very well. As Christians we don't (well, most of us) single out homosexuality as a sin above the rest....it's just the same as the rest of them. As you say, the real problem comes from society pushing this sin as something we can and should hold up.
Again, well said.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

If you check the scriptures you will see that Gluttony was one of the reasons God gave for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." - Ezekiel 16:49


Provers also warns about gluttony:

"for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags." - Proverbs 23:21

I agree with you except I made this one change. The last part was the sin. Because if excess of food was a sin, then prosperous ease would be as well. Proverbs also says that getting drunk is not for the princes and kings but for the poor man so he can forget his troubles.

Although, we do know for a fact that being a drunkard is a sin.

Either way, good post.

 

[aspen]

No, I am pointing out that you consistently defend the sin of homosexuality all the while falsely judging others. You're using a smokescreen Aspen.

So because I believe that the sin of homosexuality is consistently preached against and focused on by Christians, I am not allowed to talk about other sins without being accused of defending homosexuality? You are dodging the question, Ducky.

I appreciate Foreigner's post - I learned something new - I didn't realize that gluttony was part of the sin of S&G.

So, how should the church handle this sin, which seems to have our society in it's grip?

 

[Foreigner]

Like homosexuals, obese people have came together and formed political lobbies to force clothing companies to carry plus sizes and airlines and hotels to provide special accommodations.

-- First off, clothing companies have never been 'forced' to carry plus sizes.
They are happy to do it, seeing as there is a big market for it and they can charge more for the added material that goes into plus sizes.
Don't believe me? Walk into a Target store and price the colored tshirts. S, M, L, XL are $7.00. XXL is $9.00.

A number of companies have sprung up catering just to plus sizes because they know there is a big (no pun intended) market and money to be made. Big and Tall stores are a dime a dozen in big cities.

The same for hotel rooms. If you Google "Hotels acommodate plus size" you will find scores of hotels catering to larger people.
Why? Because there is money in it.

But even if that WASN'T the case, hotels already have large beds, large tubs, free limitless breakfast buffet, elevators, etc.
And brand new hotels - as well as hotels doing remodeling - are already putting in LARGER bed and LARGER tubs, as well as LARGER furniture in the lobbies.

Again, why? Because they know that people are willing to spend extra in places where they feel welcome and comfortable.
Translation: There is money in it.

I have yet to find a single article about a person being turned away from a hotel or charged more for a room because they were fat. I do know that a number of hotels will bring in extra "rollaway" beds for those who are larger (at no charge) and have accomidated obese people by putting them in rooms with walk-in showers.

Your claims about clothing companies and hotels are simply false.

As far as planes go, a number of lawsuits have found in favor of the airlines because they charge XX amount of dollars for a specific amount of space and need to be able to fill all spaces to maintain profit. The very reasons you elude to actually support the airlines. If someone is fat, they should do something about it. Don't like paying for more space? Get skinnier.

After reading the many homosexual threads on Christian boards, I was surprised to find nothing on gluttony. Also, I was surprised to find many overweight Americans attending church.....some were even in the pulpit! So why is this? Why are we not warning all the overweight people we see that gluttony is a sin and that they are on the road to Hell? Why are we giving them false hope that they can be Christians and gluttons? Currently, there is no weight restriction for reciting the sinners prayer, being baptized, or being ordained - aren't we leading thousands of overweight people down to the Pit?

-- I must say, I don't understand you sometimes.
First off, your premise assumes that all people sitting in church who are fat are fat by choice and none are working on it.
It also holds the false premise that none have actually been spoken to about it.
A number of churches (mine included) have weekly meetings and support groups for those wishing to lose weight.
Voluntary but very popular.

I know many people who are fat and trying their hardest (with limited success) to get skinny.
And fear of hell is NOT their motivator. Personal health and self-image often are.

Some have glandular issues for which are very difficult to address and some are 200 pounds but if you knew them a year ago they were well over 300.

Some have dietary issues and, while you do not see the efforts or the progress, are not sitting in the pew singing "God loves me although I'm fat. He'll take me just where I'm at."

Some also have more dire personal issues that drive them to food (or some other vacant filler) and are currently working to turn to God as their crutch.

You also make the unfair assumption that those people in church have never been spoken to about it or have no personal concern about it.

Just as gays are welcome in church but it is up to them to work to change, the same is for other sinners, including gluttons.
If they choose not to work on changing or fail in repeated attempts, do you really think the church doors should be closed to them?

Calling all Christians! Next time you see a homosexual and you want to tell him he is going to Hell; turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell, before approaching the homosexual. Chances are that, unlike the homosexual, they have never heard that message before.

-- You really don't have much experience in witnessing, do you?
You may have seen some people speak to Gays that way, but you, likely through lack of exposure to actual witnessing Christians, fail to see that is NO WHERE NEAR a normal (or accepted) thing a practicing Christian does.

You have more than once made the implication that ALL Christians "witness" that way to gays. That is nowhere near true.

You don't witness to a person because they are (insert specific sin here)...
You witness to them because they are lost. Most of the people I have shared the gospel with, I didn't find out what things oppressed/obsessed/distressed them until AFTER they gave their lives to Jesus.

Pornography addiction, infidelity, gambling issues, violence toward spouse and/or children, theft from the company they work for, etc. etc. etc.

Please get this: They weren't witnessed to because I knew these were their sins ^ ^ ^ ^ ^. They were people who, by thier own admission didn't know God or thought they knew about Him but had the totally wrong idea.

I never witnessed to them based on these things unless they brought them up during the course of the conversation (either to say that because they do this or that they know God won't love them, or to confirm that God would actually forgive a sin that serious or chronic.)

Also, during the course of witnessing I let them know that God loves them RIGHT NOW, and just as much as He loves me.
I also let them know the sins that I had to turn away from to follow Him.
I pointed out that some of my sins were obvious. Some I needed someone to show me and explain why they were considered a sin.
(I was sexually active with my girlfriend and even afte I became a Christian thought that since I loved her and planned on marrying her some day, God would have no problem with this.)
And some I realized over time through the help of the Holy Spirit.

You really need to get this:
They aren't going to hell just because there is sin in their lives. They are going to hell because they have not accepted Jesus as their savior. You introduce them to Jesus and when they know Him and know they are loved as who they are, their sin (whatever it is) is much easier for them to address. Not easy. But easier.

It is the relationship with Jesus, not the specific sin, that you witness about. Fat, skinny, gay, straight, ex-con, prostitute, drug addict...it matters not.

A large person may have given their lives to Jesus a year ago and have lost tons of weight....or lost very little....but they are making progress.

But you seem to take a snapshot and - based on appearance - make a snap judgement about that person. Your words themselves show that just by how you speak of overweight people in church.
You say it with your words,"turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell,"

You know nothing about their relationship with Jesus, the efforts they have made, the victories they have had so far, the failures they have overcome.

That is not an okay thing for you to do.

"But that's what you're doing to gays!" you say? That is incorrect. If a person states that Jesus loves them just as they are and since He made them gay they have nothing to worry about, that is very different, it is not "standing in judgement" to help them understand they are wrong. Their very souls depend upon you sharing that information.

Just the same as the person who says, "Jesus loves me and since He does he loves me as I am. My one-a-day Bundt cake and Mt. Dew diet is just fine with Him," they are incorrect to.

Have people had to have that conversations with other Christians. Absolutely
But most, if they truly seek God, with know what they must do.
In some cases, when they address other areas of difficulty in their lives, this area takes care of itself.



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