Gluttony

[aspen]

Welome to NAAFA.orgFounded in 1969, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) is a non-profit civil rights organization dedicated to ending size discrimination in all of its forms. NAAFA's goal is to help build a society in which people of every size are accepted with dignity and equality in all aspects of life. NAAFA will pursue this goal through advocacy, public education, and support.

Here is a common rationalization for the sin of gluttony by a Christian

http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-Obesity-a-Sin-in-Christianity?&id=4346305

Everywhere I look on the internet.....Christians show mercy for fellow Christians who are obese. Ministers and Christian leaders are allowed to be obese.

Foreigner mentioned that I am making assumptions about people who are obese - aren't you doing the same thing in regards to homosexuals?

 

[avoice]

I say again gluttony as used in the scripture isnt just being over weight you guys are reading what isnt said
its a certain attitude a behavior associated with over indulgance of anything ..

If you have a two burgers you over eat if you take the whole cow so that others cant have any and you save for yourself thats gluttony ....
Its a mind set accompained with over indulgenace. The same word is used to discribe rioutus eating in Pro 23:20 and the same word for gluttony is translated rioutus in Pro 28:7

You cant take a simple American meaning and just assume your idea is what God is talking about.

 

[Rach1370]

Everywhere I look on the internet.....Christians show mercy for fellow Christians who are obese. Ministers and Christian leaders are allowed to be obese.

Foreigner mentioned that I am making assumptions about people who are obese - aren't you doing the same thing in regards to homosexuals?

As a general rule obese people receive love and acceptance from most Christians, from most people....except themselves. Yes, there are those who cry out to be seen as the same as those who are thin...but the simple truth is....they are not. It can be for various reasons...not always sinful reasons, but the truth is that somewhere along the way weight became an issue. Now, in the cases that are truly caused by medical condition, well...they darn well should have the love and acceptance of Christians. But in most cases being overweight comes from two things...eating too much of the wrong thing, and not being active enough. Obesity comes from these things, not just in small doses, but a concerted effort over time. It's here that we see the outward showing of an inward condition. I really think that being a glutton is not defined by just being fat...as we know there can be many different reasons for weight gain that just don't equal sin. But someone who eats just to eat, because they love food, because they think of food all the time, who won't share food...that shows that food has a place of importance in their life that should be held by Jesus.

The other thing is, about the whole glutton/homosexual issue....I think that unless people know different, they like to assume that overweight people are that way because of some other reason...they don't want to automatically assume that the person with serious love handles next to them is succumbing to the sin of gluttony. You would also probably find that if a Christian knew a person...a friend if you will, was living up gluttony and didn't care, thought gluttony was just fine...well, they wouldn't approve. And here's the difference. Most homosexuals admit not only feelings for the same sex, but that they are living openly in the sin. That's why there is disapproval within the church. If we truly love Jesus and want to follow His words to us in scripture, then we cannot be approving of someone living in open sin. Doesn't mean we don't love the people...just that we can't smile and wave off their sin. It should be exactly the same with any other sin being lived in open rebellion as well.

 

[Etienne]

My opinion in short,

you dont to 300 pounds by living healthy. 130kg's + is bigger than the human tank Brock Lesnar. :blink:

When you reach , say , 200 pounds (113kg) and do not participate in some kind of muscle building sport, you should be quite BIG already. *

Here are some people of the same weight:

http://www.popeyesca...les/DELTS-3.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.../s320/rerun.jpg



and the difference between 120lbs and 250lbs.

http://www.likecool....lb-vs-120lb.jpg


* AND for interest sake, Fat vs muscle:

http://assets.thesan...at-v-muscle.jpg


(These are all safe for work)


Jimmy Carr: My friend said that the reason he is fat is because of a thyroid problem. I said, "What are you taking for that, pies?".
So true..



Anyways, OT: Gluttony for me is like an idol. Serving the food god.

 

[aspen]

I say again gluttony as used in the scripture isnt just being over weight you guys are reading what isnt said
its a certain attitude a behavior associated with over indulgance of anything ..

If you have a two burgers you over eat if you take the whole cow so that others cant have any and you save for yourself thats gluttony ....
Its a mind set accompained with over indulgenace. The same word is used to discribe rioutus eating in Pro 23:20 and the same word for gluttony is translated rioutus in Pro 28:7

You cant take a simple American meaning and just assume your idea is what God is talking about.

I am not applying an American meaning to the word gluttony. I am applying the word gluttony to an American problem, which is often overlooked within Christianity. Not surprisingly, based on the many defenses Christians have for being overweight, Conservative Christians are among some of the most overweight people in our nation.

http://scholar.googl...s=1&oi=scholart

And you are right, gluttony has a wider meaning than simply overeating - consumerism, which is often displayed on the hips, thighs, guts and butts of Americans.

Some have talked about how obesity can have multiple causes - true, but the fat doesn't appear from nowhere. You have to consume food in excess for the fat to accumulate in fat cells. Sure, once you reach a certain point, a few extra calories are immediately stored as fat, but it takes years of overeating and eating the wrong foods to reach that point.

Look, every time an obese person sits down to a full meal, served in a broth of butter at the Cracker Barrel, they are ignoring reality and giving into their sin nature. Just like the homosexual who lapses.

Unfortunately, the homosexual is condemned by the very same Christians who wear their excess on their bodies.

Now, am I advocating the condemnation of obese people? No!! I am advocating the same mercy obese people receive in the church for all sinners, even homosexuals. Humans are weak - we need the Holy Spirit's conviction and Christ's sanctification. If we purged our churches of lifestyle sinners - they would be even more empty than they are now - the South alone would be void of Christians, simply due to the Southern diet.

The fact that many of you have developed reasonings and understanding for why obese Americans are indeed, overweight shows that obesity is more accepted than homosexuality or other sexual sins, for that matter.

 

[avoice]

Most of this conversation has little to do with gluttony saying obese people are all guilty of gluttony is ridiculous

Here's the perfect example of Biblical Gluttony

The leader of North Korea spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to import the best food items and drink for him and his family ....
While the people of North Korea have been known to eat bark and grass to avoid starvation.
THIS IS GLUTTONY
The leader can weigh 80 pounds or 380 it makes no difference what size he is he is guilty of gluttony


Anyone of any size can be guilty of gluttony
you can be guilty once or have a life time pattern

while it may true that if one is guilty of gluttony like the North Korean leader he could possibly become obese
its equally true everyone that is obese is not guilty of gluttony. The N.Korean leader is small man but he is still guilty of gluttony

In fact if we took American citizens in general and compared them to some places in Africa we are all gluttons

God doesnt judge people on how they look and there can be 100's of reasons why one is obese or overweight
If one eats to much fat and is obese they will suffer health effects ..they are not caring for the Temple body
but to assume they are all guilty of gluttony is just wrong and not biblical.

If three people are in the desert with one bottle of water and one grabs the bottle and drinks it all down
himself while denying the others a share he is a glutton..... His weight doesnt matter...

If armed thugs eat all the food in a village themselves
leaving the people to starve they are guilty of gluttony. ...Its doesnt mean they are obese

 

[Foreigner]

Foreigner mentioned that I am making assumptions about people who are obese - aren't you doing the same thing in regards to homosexuals?

-- How many "Celebrate Obesity" events have you seen held in public?
-- How many non-Obese people were threatened because they dared come to those events but didn't agree with the Obese?
-- How many "We're Fat, That's That, Get Used To It" chants have you heard during "Obesity Awareness" parades?
-- How many "Obesity is an accepted lifestyle" programs have been incorported into schools at the demands (threats) of the Obese?
-- How many politicians have been picketed, threatened and threatened with recall because they do not publically sanction the Obese lifestyle?
-- How many Obese people do you know insult Christians and reject Christ because Scripture doesn't suport their lifestyle?

So much for your silly question.

Everywhere I look on the internet.....Christians show mercy for fellow Christians who are obese. Ministers and Christian leaders are allowed to be obese.

-- Really? This is your response?

Simply assume that all Christian Leaders and Ministers that are obese are doing nothing to address their size and are REJECTING what God says about it?
Dude, that's sad. Any way you slice it, that's just indefensible.

So, basically your whole point comes down to this: A gay person who rejects God because Christianity doesn't support his lifestyle is exactly the same as an obese person currently sitting in a pew, regardless of their situation or condition or relationship with God, etc.

Yeah, that's sorry.

I was wrong in assuming you wanted to have an actual dialog with people here about this.

I should have know better the minute you posted: turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell,"
but instead I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt. Silly me.



I was right in what I said in my previous post. You haven't actually witnessed to a person who is lost before.
You know - what God calls all Christians (yourself included) to do.

Have never from your heart told them that you too were a sinner but you turned away from sin and gave your life to Jesus and only through that were you saved.

Never told them that Jesus loves them right now - sin and all - just as much as He loves you and wants to wash them clean and give them salvation.

Never sincerely told them that Jesus died for their sins as well and all they have to do is turn away from their sin and accept Him in order to receive eternal salvation.

Never led them through the sinners prayer and welcomed them into the Kingdom of God.

Never saw the unadulterated joy on their face.

No, I suppose not.



A person who is willing to make a repeated blanket accusation that any Christian who has shared the Gospel with a homosexual has ONLY done it in a damning, condescending, accusitorial, judgemental manner is a person has obviously never actually shared the God's truth out with a lost soul out of love before.


If you truly believe that about that is the only way Christians witness then perhaps it is best that your religious conversations with the lost are kept to a minimum.


.

 

[rockytopva]

When I got hired on at the factory I would work third shift and farm during the day. I was very thin! When I decided to go for a couple of degrees and was promoted into the lab my metabolism slowed down and I began to gain weight. Now I have a StairMaster, elliptical, and weights downstairs and I try to do 10,000 calories a month working out. It's easy to gain weight in today's society! I was talking to a friend earlier in the month and he was talking about his daughter taking SOL's. He said she was struggling in geometry and spent all day Sunday cramming for the exam. He visited her before she went to sleep and she had her head folder in her arms crying. I told my friend that our generation as kids were much more inclined for fun and play! I can remember living my life like Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer. I would be outside playing or fishing on pretty days without a care in the world. With all that fun and play I did not worry about what I ate.

As I don't get my metabolism up as in times past I have got to eat less and work out more. In which, in today's society, I don't think our system can take too much gluttony and live to see social security!

 

[Rach1370]

Look, every time an obese person sits down to a full meal, served in a broth of butter at the Cracker Barrel, they are ignoring reality and giving into their sin nature. Just like the homosexual who lapses.

Unfortunately, the homosexual is condemned by the very same Christians who wear their excess on their bodies.

Now, am I advocating the condemnation of obese people? No!! I am advocating the same mercy obese people receive in the church for all sinners, even homosexuals. Humans are weak - we need the Holy Spirit's conviction and Christ's sanctification. If we purged our churches of lifestyle sinners - they would be even more empty than they are now - the South alone would be void of Christians, simply due to the Southern diet.

The fact that many of you have developed reasonings and understanding for why obese Americans are indeed, overweight shows that obesity is more accepted than homosexuality or other sexual sins, for that matter.

Hey Aspen....I think you might be missing what we are trying to say. You say the homosexual that lapses should receive support from the church just as a recovering glutton who slips and indulges should. And you would be right. But that whole premise is based on every homosexual within the church is actively fighting their sin nature. We know this is not true. Many gay people within the church are claiming that God supports their lifestyle....as we are seeing we now have homosexual pastors. These are not people fighting their nature, only to lapse...which lets fact it, is only human. They are proud in their sin. This is not right, as it is not right should a glutton be proud in their sin.
Any sinner...ANY sinner who by the grace of God is fighting their sin, should receive the love and support of the church...even if they do lapse now and again. Be that homosexual or glutton. But anyone who prances around the church, demanding positions of leadership within it, who is proud of their sin, who excuses their sin, who claims God supports and is okay with their sin....well, that it spitting in the face of Christ. That's the point we're trying to make, and I hope you really do see the distinction.

 

[aspen]

Hey Aspen....I think you might be missing what we are trying to say. You say the homosexual that lapses should receive support from the church just as a recovering glutton who slips and indulges should. And you would be right. But that whole premise is based on every homosexual within the church is actively fighting their sin nature. We know this is not true. Many gay people within the church are claiming that God supports their lifestyle....as we are seeing we now have homosexual pastors. These are not people fighting their nature, only to lapse...which lets fact it, is only human. They are proud in their sin. This is not right, as it is not right should a glutton be proud in their sin.
Any sinner...ANY sinner who by the grace of God is fighting their sin, should receive the love and support of the church...even if they do lapse now and again. Be that homosexual or glutton. But anyone who prances around the church, demanding positions of leadership within it, who is proud of their sin, who excuses their sin, who claims God supports and is okay with their sin....well, that it spitting in the face of Christ. That's the point we're trying to make, and I hope you really do see the distinction.

I understand your point. The problem is that obesity is never seen as a result of the sin of gluttony in the church. It is not confronted, nor does it bar people from leadership positions in the church. No one knows if the gluttonous, obese person (as opposed to the glandular obese person) even views their behavior as sinful because it is considered rude to confront them. Yet, it appear to me that the same Christians would consider it unloving to not confront a homosexual - I am wondering why.

 

[avoice]

Most of this conversation has little to do with gluttony saying obese people are all guilty of gluttony is ridiculous

Here's the perfect example of Biblical Gluttony

The leader of North Korea spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to import the best food items and drink for him and his family ....
While the people of North Korea have been known to eat bark and grass to avoid starvation.
THIS IS GLUTTONY
The leader can weigh 80 pounds or 380 it makes no difference what size he is he is guilty of gluttony


Anyone of any size can be guilty of gluttony
you can be guilty once or have a life time pattern

while it may true that if one is guilty of gluttony like the North Korean leader he could possibly become obese
its equally true everyone that is obese is not guilty of gluttony. The N.Korean leader is small man but he is still guilty of gluttony

In fact if we took American citizens in general and compared them to some places in Africa we are all gluttons

God doesnt judge people on how they look and there can be 100's of reasons why one is obese or overweight
If one eats to much fat and is obese they will suffer health effects ..they are not caring for the Temple body
but to assume they are all guilty of gluttony is just wrong and not biblical.

If three people are in the desert with one bottle of water and one grabs the bottle and drinks it all down
himself while denying the others a share he is a glutton..... His weight doesnt matter...

If armed thugs eat all the food in a village themselves
leaving the people to starve they are guilty of gluttony. ...Its doesnt mean they are obese

right Aspen its not addressed in church for a simple reason because its not the biblical meaning of gluttony

 

[aspen]

right Aspen its not addressed in church for a simple reason because its not the biblical meaning of gluttony

Actually, your example of 'Biblical gluttony' could easily be classified as greed and theft. Gluttony is the over consumption of goods - food, alcohol, drugs, or products.

 

[avoice]

Actually, your example of 'Biblical gluttony' could easily be classified as greed and theft. Gluttony is the over consumption of goods - food, alcohol, drugs, or products.

So could be a drunkard it changes nothing the N.Korean leader fits the exact biblical description
as do my other examples
According to the bible one must have have an evil thought or ulterior motive or no thought of others

Simply over eating to no ones detrement except self affects you only and would go to health laws of dishonering your body as the temple of God not the biblecal diffention of gluttony

 

[Rach1370]

I understand your point. The problem is that obesity is never seen as a result of the sin of gluttony in the church. It is not confronted, nor does it bar people from leadership positions in the church. No one knows if the gluttonous, obese person (as opposed to the glandular obese person) even views their behavior as sinful because it is considered rude to confront them. Yet, it appear to me that the same Christians would consider it unloving to not confront a homosexual - I am wondering why.

I do see your point, and yes, there are many cases where sin is overlooked. But I'm afraid you are lumping all churches and Christians together. Yes, there are some churches where the pastor is overweight...perhaps a sign he is a glutton, but there are also churches that teach that those who do not speak in tongues are going to hell. But on the flip side there are many churches who do their very best to follow scripture. They preach against gluttony as much as against any other sin. There are churches who love the sinners while still teaching the sin is bad and needs to be fought against. There are churches where the Christians will offer those struggling with sin...whatever that sin may be, with love and support as they fight against the nature within trying to drag them down.
You can't make sweeping generalisations, because they're just not accurate. Half the time maybe they are, and that's really saddening, but the other half is being done very poorly by from those statements. Yeah?

 

[avoice]

According to your description Aspen the over indulgent drug user or drunkard that is skinny as a rail then is not a glutton then only the guy who eats to many twinkies ?
This is why your description is not biblical ...God doesnt judge on looks or metablism or gentics or disease or certain medications one might need there are 1000 of reason for one to be overweight and only God knows them and he judges by whats in one's heart ...

 

[Duckybill]

According to your description Aspen the over indulgent drug user or drunkard that is skinny as a rail then is not a glutton then only the guy who eats to many twinkies ?
This is why your description is not biblical ...God doesnt judge on looks or metablism or gentics or disease or certain medications one might need there are 1000 of reason for one to be overweight and only God knows them and he judges by whats in one's heart ...

Very true, being overweight does not condemn anyone to Hell. A homosexual life does.

 

[aspen]

So could be a drunkard it changes nothing the N.Korean leader fits the exact biblical description
as do my other examples
According to the bible one must have have an evil thought or ulterior motive or no thought of others

Simply over eating to no ones detrement except self affects you only and would go to health laws of dishonering your body as the temple of God not the biblecal diffention of gluttony

The over consumption of goods includes your requirement of 'no thought of others'

I do see your point, and yes, there are many cases where sin is overlooked. But I'm afraid you are lumping all churches and Christians together. Yes, there are some churches where the pastor is overweight...perhaps a sign he is a glutton, but there are also churches that teach that those who do not speak in tongues are going to hell. But on the flip side there are many churches who do their very best to follow scripture. They preach against gluttony as much as against any other sin. There are churches who love the sinners while still teaching the sin is bad and needs to be fought against. There are churches where the Christians will offer those struggling with sin...whatever that sin may be, with love and support as they fight against the nature within trying to drag them down.
You can't make sweeping generalisations, because they're just not accurate. Half the time maybe they are, and that's really saddening, but the other half is being done very poorly by from those statements. Yeah?

I am glad that you see my point about how some churches overlook the sin of gluttony. My larger point is that many Christian churches rank sin. I think it is wrong of us to do this. I also think it is sad that many Christians that have been involved in this conversation are proving my point and at the same time, appearing angry that I am asking people to recognize the fact that we do rank sin.

Homosexuals are the Samaritans / lepers / Ninivites of our day. According to the law they are guilty, just like the rest of us; but like Jesus who came to break down the walls between Samaritans and Jews / men and women / Jew and gentile; we are called to love and allow the HS to convict.

According to your description Aspen the over indulgent drug user or drunkard that is skinny as a rail then is not a glutton then only the guy who eats to many twinkies ?
This is why your description is not biblical ...God doesnt judge on looks or metablism or gentics or disease or certain medications one might need there are 1000 of reason for one to be overweight and only God knows them and he judges by whats in one's heart ...

My definition of gluttony is the over-consumption of a substance or product. There are many ways to be a glutton; over-eating is only one of them.




Here is the wikipedia definition of gluttony:

Gluttony, derived from the Latin gluttire meaning to gulp down or swallow, means over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink,intoxicants or wealth items to the point of waste. In some Christian denominations, it is considered one of the seven deadly sins—a misplaced desire of food or its withholding from the needy.

If it looks familiar, it is because it is very similar to my own definition.

Very true, being overweight does not condemn anyone to Hell. A homosexual life does.

But being a glutton does condemn a person to Hell.

It appears some what to play semantics and provide alternative reasons for why people are obese, besides gluttony. Why all the compassion? Gluttony hits us right where we live - if we are not gulping down fast food to excess, until we are bulging out of our clothing; we are consuming products, wasting electricity, over-watering our lawns, living the consumer-lifestyle, without shame......why not? All our churches are going to do is either interpret our lifestyle as blessed or sign us up for a leadership position.

Gluttony is truly the American sin. We have no right to disqualify anyone who suffers from a minority sin; one we are not even tempted by.

 

[Duckybill]

But being a glutton does condemn a person to Hell.

How do you prove that someone is a glutton? Admitted homosexuals provide the proof themselves. What are you trying to prove Aspen?

 

[aspen]

How do you prove that someone is a glutton? Admitted homosexuals provide the proof themselves. What are you trying to prove Aspen?

Ducky - what are you trying prove? You refuse to see what Rach has recognized........churches overlook this sin.

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky - what are you trying prove? You refuse to see what Rach has recognized........churches overlook this sin.

Just that a lot of charges of 'gay bashing' by Christians are just the opposite, Christian bashing by gays for pointing out that gays are going to Hell. Can you prove anyone is a glutton? Anyone???