The Genesis Flood
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I don't know Aspen and don't really care.
Well yeah, we "get caught up in whether it actually happen or not" because God said it was an example for all who live ungodly. I don't know how anyone can deny the Genesis Flood and then claim to believe any thing else in the Bible. Very inconsistent.
Excellent point!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
People have been sinning in barbaric ways, consistently, throughout time. There has been no increase or decrease in the amount of sin - we do not need to believe in a literal flood to recognize that people can be monsters, I just went to a news website the other day that had a story straight from Kings - a women microwaved their baby to death after a fight with her husband just to spite him. Evil is rampant.
If sin is sin - one socially accepted sin (consumerism/greed for example) is enough to warrant the destruction of an entire city or country. Multitudes of sin are not necessary for God to strike us down - yet the Flood account reads just like a morality tale - 'once upon a time, when all people were being really bad, God decided....' as if, many sins caused God to get more angry than simply one sin.
As far as you not understanding how people can disregard a literal Flood account and believe the rest of the Bible - I believe you. Unfortunately, you are stuck in a Modernist way of thinking - the lens you use to read the Bible is "is it literally true?" and you have decided that everything has to meet your standard or it is not valuable. My lens is 'love' - so I search to find how the scripture expresses God's love for us or our love for God - or our failure to love God and neighbor. I am intellectually curious - context, original language, and cultural aspect of the scriptures are all important for shedding light on God's Word. I do not believe the Flood is literally true because it appears to be a random act of incredible violence and completely improbable; more importantly, their is nothing loving, merciful, or just about the story - it reflects nothing I know to be true about God's character.
Thank the Lord for showing me this thread!!!!!!!
I have been studying Creation, and it is the most awesome thing in the world to show Gods Glory!!!!! From before the flood, to after!!!!!
I read the first few posts, and was too quick to reply without reading the others, so if I missed anything out, please ask me!!!!
Firstly, this is actually spiritual warefare, as evolutionists and people that deny God, they don't want you to learn how great is our God, and so you have been mislead to believe that Dinosaurs and the world is 65-135 millions years old, it is not, it is 6000 years old and we can prove it!!!!! This is easier doing it by discussion, but to reveal how great is our Lords creation, I will try here to type what I can.
Noahs ark has been found on Mount Ararat in Turkey, with the anchors stones above the ark (as the water receded the anchor stones were cut off). Some one posted that they were 40days and 40nights on the ark, that was wrong, it only rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they were on the arc for months before Noah could open up (the Lord was on the arc with them and told them when).
Before you want to talk about the flood, you have to understand what the earth was like before, it is not entirly like we know it today. There was actually two water bodies, first was the water chambers below the earth, and not sea's like we know it today, read Gen 1v6and 7, and verse 20, above where the birds fly is the second. You see there was two waters, one above the firmanent where the birds flew. When the flood happened, the chambers below the earth opened up, and the water above the firmanent collapsed. The faults where the water chambers from below opened can still be viewed today, as faultlines.
This is where we get all the oils and coal etc from today from all the animals that died in the flood. You are led to believe that oil and coal are millions of years old, an Australian univesrity made oil in 30 minutes from turkey gets, a Univesity I think in Texas did the same. You are led to believe fossils are millions of years old, I wish I could show you pictures a fossilised cowboy boot with the foot still inside, the boot was made in the 1950's. Or pictures of dinosaur bones with the blood still inside. Lumps of coal with Jewelry inside.
You also have to understand how differant the world was, with the layer of water above the firmanent, it stopped UV rays from getting in, it doubled the oxygen levels of today, even bits of tree sap found today from years ago, shows that they had twice the air pressure we have today. You could run hundreds of miles without needing a rest, but the wildlife and plant growth was amazing, plants actually grew 20x the size they do today.
Here is a good example of the flood, the Grand Canyon, I bet you were led to believe that the Colarado river has been carving it's way through the canyon for millions of years? That Canyon was probably formed in 30 minutes. Some parts of the canyon, are at a higher altitude than the source of the river!!!!!
Someone asked about Kanagroos etc getting to Australia? After the flood, the seas were not so deep due to ice formations on the poles, (this will take ages to write out and explain), but basically there was land linking Australiia to Asia, it is probably only 30feet deep avearge between Australia and Asia, there are some cities buried in South Europe in 150 foot of water. The pair of Kangeroos that got of the Ark, were probably heading east and south, before the ice caps started melting and trapped them.
Everthing I can explain with science, I wish I had more time to type, but I will save this thread to my favorites, and keep checking.
God Bless!!!!
I have been studying Creation, and it is the most awesome thing in the world to show Gods Glory!!!!! From before the flood, to after!!!!!
I read the first few posts, and was too quick to reply without reading the others, so if I missed anything out, please ask me!!!!
Firstly, this is actually spiritual warefare, as evolutionists and people that deny God, they don't want you to learn how great is our God, and so you have been mislead to believe that Dinosaurs and the world is 65-135 millions years old, it is not, it is 6000 years old and we can prove it!!!!! This is easier doing it by discussion, but to reveal how great is our Lords creation, I will try here to type what I can.
Noahs ark has been found on Mount Ararat in Turkey, with the anchors stones above the ark (as the water receded the anchor stones were cut off). Some one posted that they were 40days and 40nights on the ark, that was wrong, it only rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they were on the arc for months before Noah could open up (the Lord was on the arc with them and told them when).
Before you want to talk about the flood, you have to understand what the earth was like before, it is not entirly like we know it today. There was actually two water bodies, first was the water chambers below the earth, and not sea's like we know it today, read Gen 1v6and 7, and verse 20, above where the birds fly is the second. You see there was two waters, one above the firmanent where the birds flew. When the flood happened, the chambers below the earth opened up, and the water above the firmanent collapsed. The faults where the water chambers from below opened can still be viewed today, as faultlines.
This is where we get all the oils and coal etc from today from all the animals that died in the flood. You are led to believe that oil and coal are millions of years old, an Australian univesrity made oil in 30 minutes from turkey gets, a Univesity I think in Texas did the same. You are led to believe fossils are millions of years old, I wish I could show you pictures a fossilised cowboy boot with the foot still inside, the boot was made in the 1950's. Or pictures of dinosaur bones with the blood still inside. Lumps of coal with Jewelry inside.
You also have to understand how differant the world was, with the layer of water above the firmanent, it stopped UV rays from getting in, it doubled the oxygen levels of today, even bits of tree sap found today from years ago, shows that they had twice the air pressure we have today. You could run hundreds of miles without needing a rest, but the wildlife and plant growth was amazing, plants actually grew 20x the size they do today.
Here is a good example of the flood, the Grand Canyon, I bet you were led to believe that the Colarado river has been carving it's way through the canyon for millions of years? That Canyon was probably formed in 30 minutes. Some parts of the canyon, are at a higher altitude than the source of the river!!!!!
Someone asked about Kanagroos etc getting to Australia? After the flood, the seas were not so deep due to ice formations on the poles, (this will take ages to write out and explain), but basically there was land linking Australiia to Asia, it is probably only 30feet deep avearge between Australia and Asia, there are some cities buried in South Europe in 150 foot of water. The pair of Kangeroos that got of the Ark, were probably heading east and south, before the ice caps started melting and trapped them.
Everthing I can explain with science, I wish I had more time to type, but I will save this thread to my favorites, and keep checking.
God Bless!!!!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
how this fossil get here?3000 ft. above sea level
An ocean covered the Earth for millions of years.
Here's the thing Aspen, love is only one of God's attributes. Yes He is loving, merciful and kind, but He has other attributes, and they are equal in nature to His love. He is also wrathful and Judge. He is righteous. It is, in fact, unrighteous to let evil actions go unpunished. Sin must be punished, there is no way around that but Jesus. Unrepentant, stubborn sin will be, must be punished. Then it was done then by the flood, in the future it will be done in fire. That may not seem loving, until we consider the action God took so that we may be free from this punishment. Jesus, God himself died horribly so that we may escape this punishment...that is love, and ultimately it will be love that sets us free. Those unsaved do not love Jesus, and while they may be seen as 'descent' people, sadly those not for God are against Him. That is why we were told to go forth and spread the gospel to every corner of the earth...that's why human history has stretched on so long...God would have as many people saved as possible. But ultimately those unrepentant will be punished....God can do no less.
tomwebster
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You guys don't understand the reason for the flood of Noah. It wasn't just because of sin; it was to destroy the progeny of the son of God (fallen Angels) that had children by the daughters of man. They were giants and evil men.
Yeah, sorry, I don't believe that's what the bible tells us. Feel free to yourself, I don't believe it to be a salvation issue, but I just don't see it.
If you're referring to the Nephilim, I believe the "sons of God" to be men who believed in God, and the "daughters of men" to be pagan women. I don't see any 'supernatural' things going on, just sinful people.
tomwebster
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Doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it is what Jude 1: 6 is talking about, the angels that left their first estate. They are coming back you know.
Gee Aspen, with all the evils going on today, why would you deny the Biblical account of God drowning everyone but 8? Don't you remember Jesus' Words how it would be the same in the last days as in the days of Noah?
According to whom?
I would suggest to you tom, that you get interested in NT salvation rather than being obsessed with your theories. It would be much more profitable to you.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I am exhausted.....
Too much posting for me, I think I need a break.
All I can say is the God I know and worship has been misunderstood as vengeful and wrathful for centuries......He cannot be Loving and wrathful at the same time - Rach, you recognized that we cannot fear and love Him at the same time, how can He be wrathful and loving? Is it really just to euthanize people for failing to love when we have forgotten how to do it? Like I have said many times before, I treat my dogs better than that.
Think about it; the only way God can really be angry and vengeful and wrathful against us is if we are equal to Him and we are not. Even lowly humans are not threatened by animals or children, so we do not hold them to the same standards as adults. Could you imagine being personally offended by the behavior of a poorly behaved hamster or turtle?
I believe Hell exists, but Judgment Day is not going to be a day of vengeful, wrathful, self-righteous indignation form God towards those who remain unredeemed - it will be a time of sorrow and loss for everyone involved.
I am truly sadden to see so many people who post here appear so angry, tight-fisted and RIGHT about their understanding of doctrine........
I see many good people like Robbie, Templar and Selene, dropping away from this board because of the intolerance.....I worry about how long Rach can stand it.....
I need a break.
Too much posting for me, I think I need a break.
All I can say is the God I know and worship has been misunderstood as vengeful and wrathful for centuries......He cannot be Loving and wrathful at the same time - Rach, you recognized that we cannot fear and love Him at the same time, how can He be wrathful and loving? Is it really just to euthanize people for failing to love when we have forgotten how to do it? Like I have said many times before, I treat my dogs better than that.
Think about it; the only way God can really be angry and vengeful and wrathful against us is if we are equal to Him and we are not. Even lowly humans are not threatened by animals or children, so we do not hold them to the same standards as adults. Could you imagine being personally offended by the behavior of a poorly behaved hamster or turtle?
I believe Hell exists, but Judgment Day is not going to be a day of vengeful, wrathful, self-righteous indignation form God towards those who remain unredeemed - it will be a time of sorrow and loss for everyone involved.
I am truly sadden to see so many people who post here appear so angry, tight-fisted and RIGHT about their understanding of doctrine........
I see many good people like Robbie, Templar and Selene, dropping away from this board because of the intolerance.....I worry about how long Rach can stand it.....
I need a break.
Aspen, you MUST decide whether you believe in the God of the Bible or not. You clearly haven't made up your mind which.
tomwebster
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d, you will never understand the end if you don't understand the beginning. You will not know who the enemy army is, they are coming back.
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What doesn't make sense...
If the bible said that Jonah swallowed the whale and swam to Nineveh I would believe that
If the bible said that waters came out of Noah's mouth and flooded the Earth I would believe that.
Why is a hard thing for God to confound we small pathetic earthlings? Compared to the size of the universe we are very small!
From Noah came three sons....
Japheth... Europeans
Shem... Asians
Ham... Africans
I believe that there was a land bridge between Russia and the US that allowed the native Americans to make their way to the new world before anyone else. In the works of Josephus there were two pillars built by Seth...
Adam predicted the earth would be destroyed by fire & flood, so Seth’s people made 2 pillars & inscribed their inventions of astronomy on them so future descendents would know the stone one remains in Siriad today.
If the bible said that Jonah swallowed the whale and swam to Nineveh I would believe that
If the bible said that waters came out of Noah's mouth and flooded the Earth I would believe that.
Why is a hard thing for God to confound we small pathetic earthlings? Compared to the size of the universe we are very small!
From Noah came three sons....
Japheth... Europeans
Shem... Asians
Ham... Africans
I believe that there was a land bridge between Russia and the US that allowed the native Americans to make their way to the new world before anyone else. In the works of Josephus there were two pillars built by Seth...
Adam predicted the earth would be destroyed by fire & flood, so Seth’s people made 2 pillars & inscribed their inventions of astronomy on them so future descendents would know the stone one remains in Siriad today.
tomwebster
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We are all under the curse of sin. Red, yellow, black, or white.... And we can all be liberated in Jesus Christ.
Yeah, again, I don't see that that's what Jude is saying. But I suppose we'll see, won't we! :)
I can reconcile the two natures of God because that's what the Bible tells me about Him. I cannot ever hope to conceive of God Himself for I am way to limited. If the Bible tells me He is both loving and wrathful, then I believe it. It also helps to consider it like this. A man is brought before the court system today. He is charged (and there is enough evidence to know he is guilty beyond a doubt) with the horrific beating, rape and murder of several women. Is it a loving action for the judge or jury to wave their hands and say 'I do not convict you, go free'. The very earth would cry out at that injustice. This man must be punished, or at the very least not allowed to go free to continue his horror. Well, so is our nature of sin against God almighty. We all deserve punishment for our sin. It is only those who are under the blood of Jesus who escape this punishment. I do not fear a wrathful God, because through Jesus I have become His daughter, and I am secure in His love and kindness for me.
I might become offended if said hamster or turtle decided they should rule the earth and then committed violent and sinful acts to topple us off the top of the food chain!! 'Cause that's what we really did to God!
Take a break Aspen. It is a good thing, I think, for us to retreat into God's word. I know where you're coming from, it can be wearying, even depressing at how many here seem to follow odd doctrines that do not originate in scripture. They way I cope? I'm learning that I only have conversations with those whose posts show a true love of God. Doesn't mean I always agree with them or them me, but there's truly no point being dragged into an argument by those who do not wish to discuss the truth, they only want to stamp their opinionated ideas on others.
It can be tough sometimes, but I really feel that we all need to come to this board with two things: a firmness in what we believe; that being our core beliefs in Jesus and what the Bible says. But also a willingness and openness to learn and grow through what others reveal to us. I do not mean that we compromise those core beliefs, but that when we discuss something with others, even should we disagree with them, we should take something away from it. Your perspectives Aspen, while I do not always agree with them, they have been really good in enabling me to put myself in other peoples shoes. I really think it's hard for us to show Gods love, or even scriptural disapproval in cases, until we really understand people. Once we understand others better we can really help and love them. I really think it's all about learning and growing, even on discussion boards where the majority of people disagree.
So yeah, go renew yourself, but don't give up. Each day is a day where we learn something more for or from God!
tomwebster
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Look, I'm not pretending to be a know-it-all. I'm well aware that I could be very wrong on several points in the Bible. The thing I am 100% sure in is Jesus, His grace and my salvation. So, in the end, yes, I may indeed see, but I will always be prepared and saved in Christ. And as long as you have the same assurance, then I have absolutely no quarrel with you!
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