The Genesis Flood

[Duckybill]

My opinion is not a charge against the Bible! I am not teaching or correcting anyone's doctrine. The fact is, you cannot tolerate a different opinion on doctrine without perceiving it as an attack. There is no way to prove if the Flood Myth really happened or not - you choose to believe it did happen I choose to believe that it may have happened or it may not have happened. The word 'myth' which you have redefined as 'lie' or 'man's tradition' leaves the possibility open for an event to have happened or not. I am being reasonable and you are being rigid and resorting to slander and challenges to my very faith! Shame on you!

In other words you made up your 'myth' charge.

2 Peter 2:4-6 (ESV)
[sup]4 [/sup]For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; [sup]5 [/sup]if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; [sup]6 [/sup]if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

 

[aspen]

In other words you made up your 'myth' charge.

2 Peter 2:4-6 (ESV)
[sup]4 [/sup]For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; [sup]5 [/sup]if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; [sup]6 [/sup]if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

I see all you want to do is fight and condemn. I think there is definitely 'a hole in the bucket' when it comes to your circular reasoning. All you are interested in doing is proving that my opinion is an opinion and than condemn me for having an opinion.

Why are you choosing to fight with so many people on this board, Ducky? Is everyone who doesn't think as small and rigidly as you an enemy of you/The Bible, which apparently you believe ar the same thing? I guess tilting at windmills makes you feel powerful,

Well, I am getting off the merry-go-round.

 

[Duckybill]

I see all you want to do is fight and condemn. I think there is definitely 'a hole in the bucket' when it comes to your circular reasoning. All you are interested in doing is proving that my opinion is an opinion and than condemn me for having an opinion.

Why are you choosing to fight with so many people on this board, Ducky? Is everyone who doesn't think as small and rigidly as you an enemy of you/The Bible, which apparently you believe ar the same thing? I guess tilting at windmills makes you feel powerful,

Well, I am getting off the merry-go-round.

Come back when you have Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood was 'myth' Aspen. Your personal remarks are simply a smoke screen.

Matthew 24:37-39 (ESV)
[sup]37 [/sup]For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [sup]38 [/sup]For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, [sup]39 [/sup]and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

[rockytopva]

My dad at one time studied to be a Catholic priest and he was all the time questioning biblical truths...

I have a problem with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... - Dad

In which my position here is that if you want anything from God you have to...

1. Have faith
2. Go to the Father in Jesus name.

In which scripture says...

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - Romans 14:1

 

[Duckybill]

My dad at one time studied to be a Catholic priest and he was all the time questioning biblical truths...

I have a problem with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... - Dad

Thanks for your comments. Perhaps you can give us some more light how Catholics believe about the Bible? I have known some wonderful Catholics. Please elaborate. Thanks!

 

[Duckybill]

Still waiting of Biblical proof that the Flood was "myth".

Hebrews 11:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

 

[rockytopva]

Thanks for your comments. Perhaps you can give us some more light how Catholics believe about the Bible? I have known some wonderful Catholics. Please elaborate. Thanks!

I am not an authority on Catholicism. I do like the way they do mass. I think we can find pro's and con's to Catholicism just like we can any other church.

 

[Duckybill]

Here's one for you Aspen where God killed David's baby because of David's sins:

2 Samuel 12:15-18 (ESV)
[sup]15[/sup]And the Lord afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick. [sup]16 [/sup]David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. [sup]17 [/sup]And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. [sup]18 [/sup]On the seventh day the child died.

 

[aspen]

Here's one for you Aspen where God killed David's baby because of David's sins:

2 Samuel 12:15-18 (ESV)
[sup]15[/sup]And the Lord afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick. [sup]16 [/sup]David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. [sup]17 [/sup]And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. [sup]18 [/sup]On the seventh day the child died.

Yep. All good and bad events were attributed to God.

 

[Duckybill]

Yep. All good and bad events were attributed to God.

Nope. Allowed by God. See the diff?

 

[aspen]

Nope. Allowed by God. See the diff?

Natural consequences of a fallen world, which were set in motion after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, are allowed. We are called to love and forgiven through all the pain - the HS gives us the fortitude to do so. Learning to love as we were created to do is the only way to make it through this world and become citizens of Heaven.

The Amish, forgiveness of one of their own members who murdered children in their community is a good example of a Christian response.

Evil was not created to punish or teach us anything. We were supposed to love God and neighbor for eternity, but it didn't work out that way. God has decided to use what we created - sin, to teach us how to regain what we lost and to learn a higher lesson - forgiveness.

 

[Duckybill]

Natural consequences of a fallen world, which were set in motion after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, are allowed. We are called to love and forgiven through all the pain - the HS gives us the fortitude to do so. Learning to love as we were created to do is the only way to make it through this world and become citizens of Heaven.

The Amish, forgiveness of one of their own members who murdered children in their community is a good example of a Christian response.

Evil was not created to punish or teach us anything. We were supposed to love God and neighbor for eternity, but it didn't work out that way. God has decided to use what we created - sin, to teach us how to regain what we lost and to learn a higher lesson - forgiveness.

A lot of comments. No Scripture. Bottom line: God allows all of it. After all, He created every one who commits evil, including Satan.

 

[aspen]

A lot of comments. No Scripture. Bottom line: God allows all of it. After all, He created every one who commits evil, including Satan.

Sin is the failure to conform to the purpose we were created for. Satan had a purpose and he choose to rebel against it and God. We were created to love God and each other - anything less than love is sin. Sin is choosing the lesser good choice. We are called to love perfectly - if every person loved perfectly, sin would not be possible.

 

[Duckybill]

And still, no Scripture Aspen. Very strange for a Christian.

 

[aspen]

And still, no Scripture Aspen. Very strange for a Christian.

I see you are not interested in a Christian conversation. You appear to only be engaging me in order to judge my responses. Face it Ducky, you have already admitted that you are only in this to save yourself from Hell. You worship your god because he is the biggest bully on the block - you have no choice but to worship him so he doesn't smite you into eternal torture. Therefore, we worship different gods. No point in following your habit of prooftexting scripture to support the God of the Bible - you seem to be unable to recognize Him. I really am praying for you.

 

[Duckybill]

I see you are not interested in a Christian conversation. You appear to only be engaging me in order to judge my responses. Face it Ducky, you have already admitted that you are only in this to save yourself from Hell. You worship your god because he is the biggest bully on the block - you have no choice but to worship him so he doesn't smite you into eternal torture. Therefore, we worship different gods. No point in following your habit of prooftexting scripture to support the God of the Bible - you seem to be unable to recognize Him. I really am praying for you.

And I see you are not interested in Biblical Truths. God created EVERYTHING. You'll have to blame Him. You don't quote Scripture because you know it condemns your beliefs. You are correct on one thing. You and I have a different God. My God is the God of Genesis and all of the Bible. You still have not said who your God is, because you don't know. You created him to please you.

 

[aspen]

And I see you are not interested in Biblical Truths. God created EVERYTHING. You'll have to blame Him.

Sin is lesser good. For example, the creation of a musical instrument provides the potential for incredible music, and the potential for less. Humans are the same as instruments. We made the choice to not live up to our potential, everyday - sin.

[font="tahoma][/font][/color][/size] [size="3"]You don't quote Scripture because you know it condemns your beliefs.

I quote scripture when I please. I do not like to prooftext.

You are correct on one thing. You and I have a different God.

Absolutely.

My God is the God of Genesis and all of the Bible.

Not according to your own testimony - once again, you have admitted that you are in this Christianity thing to escape Hell. Your faith is fear-based. You believe that fear rather than awe is the foundation of your faith, despite:

[font="tahoma][font="Verdana][color="#FF0000"]1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.[/font][font="Verdana] [/font][/font][/color]

[/size][size="3"]You still have not said who your God is, because you don't know.

This is a lie. I have already posted my personal creed - you have not.

You created him to please you.

No need - my God makes Himself known to those who love Him. He is ethical and merciful and loving - He is faithful to us and to His own character. Your god does whatever he pleases and demands that you call atrocities 'good' despite:

[font="Verdana][color="#ff0000"]Matthew 7:9-11
[sup]9[/sup] “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? [sup]10[/sup] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? [sup]11[/sup] If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him![/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#ff0000"] [/color][/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#ff0000"] [/color][/font]

 

[Duckybill]

Not according to your own testimony - once again, you have admitted that you are in this Christianity thing to escape Hell. Your faith is fear-based. You believe that fear rather than awe is the foundation of your faith, despite:

You finally got something right Aspen. I got saved to escape Hell. What better reason is there? Please answer if you can.

[font="tahoma][font="Verdana][color="#FF0000"]1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Wise up Aspen.

[/font][/font][/color]Psalm 111:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

This is a lie. I have already posted my personal creed - you have not.

So who is your God if not Jesus who drowned everyone on Earth but 8? I keep asking but you keep dodging.

Matthew 24:37-39 (ESV)
[sup]37 [/sup]For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [sup]38 [/sup]For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, [sup]39 [/sup]and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

No need - my God makes Himself known to those who love Him. He is ethical and merciful and loving - He is faithful to us and to His own character. Your god does whatever he pleases and demands that you call atrocities 'good' despite:

Well yes, the true God does whatever He pleases. He doesn't have to ask anyone.

[font="Verdana][size="3"]Matthew 7:9-11
[sup]9[/sup] “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? [sup]10[/sup] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? [sup]11[/sup] If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

And I'm still asking for your Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood is a myth as you claim. Did you just make that false charge against Jesus and the writers of the Bible? How about an answer? If you don't give your proof then you are calling Jesus and the writers of the Bible liars. [/size][/font]

 

[aspen]

You finally got something right Aspen. I got saved to escape Hell. What better reason is there? Please answer if you can.

Love. I accepted Jesus's invitation to learn how to love Him and my neighbor perfectly, as I was created to do. My faith is not fear-based. I freely choose to worship the Good, Merciful, Just, Loving God of the Bible, despite the fact that his people have continually maligned His character throughout the ages.


Wise up Aspen.

Psalm 111:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

So you have chosen to stick to your tired, incorrect interpretation of a prayer from David, along with a snide comment from yourself? How disappointing.

So who is your God if not Jesus who drowned everyone on Earth but 8? I keep asking but you keep dodging.

Personal Creed

1. I believe in the Trinity, the infallibility of the written and oral word, the incarnation of Christ, and the justification and sanctification of the soul.

2.I believe in the resurrection of Jesus, the forgiveness of sin, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

3.I have a personal, participatory, justified and sanctifying relationship with my Savior, Jesus Christ.

4.I am called to carry out God’s will by loving God, loving myself (recognizing God’s love for me and knowing who I am), and loving my neighbor through service.

5.I believe we are called to root out personal sin by working with Jesus in the sanctification process, which teaches our heart to love and results in perfection after death and resurrection.

6.My primary concern is to store up my treasure in Heaven by promoting a saving relationship in Christ, through the process of creating and participating in deep, loving relationships with my neighbors.

7.The ability to recognize the tragedy of personal sin in my neighbor serves a twofold purpose: to act as a mirror for my own sin, thereby aiding in my personal sanctification; to teach me perspective taking skills, empathy, radical love, acceptance of my neighbor, and the highest form of love; forgiveness.

8.I believe the existence of pain in the world is to teach us to trust, love and forgive through the pain; gain perspective on Christ’s sacrifice and God’s pain, loss and triumph; reveal Christ’s love for His children through service.

9.I believe the main subject in the OT is the omnipotence of God and the full array of human response to this truth. The main point of the NT is God’s response to His own omnipotence, which is love and forgiveness embodied in the man-God Jesus Christ, our ultimate example and only salvation.

10. All truth is God’s truth; therefore all religions, academia, and laws contain varying degrees of truth and are profitable for the development of our mind and relationships with others.

Peace

Well yes, the true God does whatever He pleases. He doesn't have to ask anyone.

Anyone who does whatever He pleases without regard for ethics cannot be just, merciful, good or knowable because His character always changes. Your god cannot be trusted or known. How do you expect to follow such a god? He certainly is not the god of the Bible. And nice job ignoring the verse I provided, I see scripture really is important to you.

And I'm still asking for your Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood is a myth as you claim.

Then you will have to keep asking until Christ returns and tells you to loosen up because the Flood Myth is an inspired story; the Bible does not say whether it really happened or not. That is why I call it a myth because it leaves the possibility open for it to be a literal account or an inspired story - you simply do not like the answer I am providing so you are throwing a tantrum. Grow up.

Did you just make that false charge against Jesus and the writers of the Bible?

I didn't charge anyone. I described a story in the Bible. You can pretend it is an attack if you want to - it only reveals how frighten you truly are.

How about an answer?

The answer is no.

If you don't give your proof then you are calling Jesus and the writers of the Bible liars.

If they claimed the story really happened my opinion would simply be inaccurate. See, I have no problem being wrong about this, Ducky - like I have said three thousand times before....if I am wrong about this, Jesus and I will have a good laugh about it someday. I am not arrogant enough to declare that an event really happened when all the scientific evidence tells us that it didn't and it is not going to impede my sanctification. What I am saying is, loosen up!

"There's a hole in the bucket, dear Aspen, dear Aspen.....there's a hole in the bucket, dear Aspen, a hole......"

"Then fix it, dear Ducky, dear Ducky.....then fix it dear Ducky then fix it!!"

"With what dear Aspen, dear Aspen......with what dear Aspen with what etc, etc,.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................."
"But there's a hole in the bucket dear Aspen, dear Aspen............there's a hole in the bucket, dear Aspen, a hole!"

And the merry-go-round of Ducky's reasoning keeps on turning!

 

[Foreigner]

And still, no Scripture Aspen. Very strange for a Christian.

-- Good point, Ducky.

Aspen criticized me in another thread for not providing a scripture to back up my position when I questioned the idea of praying to dead saints or to Mary instead of directly to Jesus.

But he himself said it is fine for him to do it....even though there is no scripture to support it.

Yup, that is the exact same word I was thinking.