When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Like I said in previous post, you don't have a clue about such matters. You're like Nicodemus who Jesus tried to explain the difference between flesh and spirit (John 3).
In Genesis 18, Jesus with two angels appeared to Abraham, and Abraham prepared food and drink for them, and they did eat and drink. Same thing with the two angels that went to get Lot and his out of Sodom and Gomorrah. Food was prepared for them too and they did eat.
That shows the angelic body (a spirit body) is able to eat OUR food. And you know what? We also can eat the food of the angels, called "manna" from Heaven!\
Thus the angelic spirit body is NOT simply a ghost body of nothingness. It is simply a body OF THAT OTHER DIMENSION.
When Jesus appeared to His disciples for 40 days after His resurrection, He appeared to them in His transfigured spiritual body, because a flesh body CANNOT go through walls, nor suddenly appear out of nowhere in a closed off room, and likewise disappear out of nowhere while dining with His disciples.
Your not understanding this means you definitely don't have a clue as to how our Heavenly Father is going to return to live with His faithful ON EARTH...
Rev 21:3
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV
Ezek 48:34-35
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.
KJV
That is meant literally, because before the fall of Adam, God's Garden of Eden WAS UPON THIS EARTH (Genesis 2).
And wherever God's Eden is, that is where God is. At the end of Genesis 3 we were shown God removing His Eden off this earth to that other dimension, and setting up flaming cherubim to guard the way to the tree of life.
I already explained that our eternal body comes at the Rapture. Whatever spirit body believers have in heaven doesn't matter since their bodies are raised incorruptible at the Rapture. Why would this happen if they already had eternal bodies that were like Jesus'?
Well, physical bodies are raised for believers at the Rapture. Meanwhile, did you think they were in the ground or ocean or etc still? No. We go to be with Him where He is when we die. Yet bodies are raised at the Rapture, so that is when we get our eternal body.
No, not in any way did I do anything of the sort. See above, bodies are raised from people that have been in heaven a long time. Jesus was physical and spiritual when He rose and we will be like that. The folks in heaven now are not like that as far as I can see from the bible.
Both actually, He clarified He was not a ghost or spirit, but real. He ate food to prove it.
So is that before the wrath of God, or do you not actually believe in that Rapture after all?
Well, what do you believe? Hard to tell with the wiggling. So do you believe Jesus returns with the saints and then we rule for 1000 years or not?
On the contrary, you are confused and an accuser of saints.
No. He shall rule the nations and that is quite real and physical. Not pi in the sky
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Once again you are claiming something I have never said or believe. This is not a good way to debate taking cheap shots and adding things to the debate that are not said. We need to debate in love and grace and debate about the things which were said after all we are on the same side aren't we?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
They did not say they were flesh and blood and not spirits. Jesus became flesh and was raised from the dead with a new body. Still had wounds.
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
"The following question naturally ensues: do angels need to eat food like humans? Not likely, but again, the Bible doesn’t explicitly answer that. However, since angels are spirits, and do not inherently possess physical bodies, it can be deduced that they do not require physical food for sustenance. Why, then, did they eat with Lot? It’s ultimately a matter of speculation."
Do angels eat physical food?
In the case of the risen Christ it is not any matter of speculation. He spelled it out.
Says who? The eternal body being both physical and spiritual and eternal can do plenty that our physical bodies cannot do! Nowhere does the =bible mention some extra 'transfiguration' that Jesus underwent after being risen from the dead. You made that up.
None of those verses mention a garden or anything you posit.
Yet He left heaven to come here for us. It is better to say that wherever God is, there is heaven!
You made that up also. It does not say a garden was teleported into space! It says man could no longer go in.
You said this
"Well that’s not the New Testament but Jesus did stand on the mount of olives after Zechariah penned that verse and what Jesus did paved the way for the gospel to spread to the world"
So should we have taken you to mean that the prophesy of Jesus standing on the mount of Olives is good and will happen? If so why did you mention He already did it? Don't blame others for your murkiness. You ain't deep, you just ain't clear.
Davy
Well-Known Member
It's actually mentioned very clearly.
He was not on Mt of Olives when he ascended.
Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great
Here we see that they went to Bethany and he ascended there, which is a mile from the Mount of Olives and about 2 miles from Jerusalem. They left Bethany and returned to Jerusalem having to cross the Mt of Olives on their way back. See the map provided.
....
Luke 24:49
49 And, behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
KJV
Here is when Jesus ascended to The Father while upon the Mount of Olives...
Acts 1:8-12
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV
That tells me Jesus did actually ascend from atop the Mount of Olives, because His return per Zechariah 14 likewise is to be upon that Mount of Olives, even as those two angels testified that He would return in like manner.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
You obviously never understood Apostle Paul then... and I'm trying to help you with this:
2 Cor 5:1-8
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
"if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved" -- if our flesh body were dissolved.
"we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" -- the spiritual body. It is now, not later. And it is attached to our soul.
Paul is speaking that in the PRESENT tense, not future tense. In 1 Corinthians 15:44 when Paul said, "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body", he was speaking in the PRESENT tense, not future tense.
So the above verse is pointing to an event like suddenly our flesh body is totally destroyed, let's say like a direct hit upon a soldier by an artillery shell, that soldier still has a spiritual body that will manifest right then, in the heavenly dimension.
That is the only type body they will ever have after that, because that type of body is the type body of the resurrection, a spiritual body. It is a body type of that other dimension of the heavenly. And Jesus did point to it also when He said those of the resurrection are "as the angels of God in Heaven". The spiritual type body is... an angelic type body. It's simply a body of that other dimension. Apostle Paul even called it the "image of the heavenly" in 1 Corinthians 15.
That was actually shown first back in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 which revealed if the "silver cord" were loosed, then the flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. And since Jesus said don't fear those who kill your flesh body, but not your soul, that means our spirit and soul together go back to God at death of our flesh.
And in John 3, Jesus revealed that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. They are two completely separate operations, but while manifested in a flesh body on earth is held together by that "silver cord".
Davy
Well-Known Member
NOPE. Sorry, you cannot simply default to Luke 24. The subject is Jesus and two angels with Him appearing to Abraham at his tent door, and preparing physical food for them, and their eating man's food. You show you do not understand that, because Lord Jesus WAS NOT IN A FLESH BODY when He ate Abraham's food! If you say He was, then that would mean He was born of woman back in that time. No, He was in the Spirit type body He has always had, even that He still had after He was later born through Mary's womb!
Well, if you are right, I was right in my assumption. I'll leave it at maybe we don't really know.
The equation is that we reign over this actual world and actual nations as the bible says, regardless of how qualified you think you are.
Yes we have a spiritual body when we die in heaven. We are eternal if saved. So the issue is why God raises bodies on earth also, later. My assumption is that our body in heaven is temporary (though we are eternal) until we return to earth with Him to have our former bodies raised up to meet Him (meet us and our spiritual bodies also if we already dead by then). We then have our physical and spiritual body like He has. So then, our eternal bodies in heaven meet our former bodies at the Rapture, and so our eternal spirit body also becomes physical as well as spiritual like Jesus! No use arguing as we don't really know. I am happy either way. However, since I know we go to be with Him when we die, and that the bodies of the dead believers rise up at the Rapture, I see no other possibility. Unless you do not believe that we go to be with Him when we die??
As the commentary I posted said, we don't know.
"The following question naturally ensues: do angels need to eat food like humans? Not likely, but again, the Bible doesn’t explicitly answer that. However, since angels are spirits, and do not inherently possess physical bodies, it can be deduced that they do not require physical food for sustenance. Why, then, did they eat with Lot? It’s ultimately a matter of speculation."
Do angels eat physical food?
Jesus clearly said that He was not just a spirit. He had wounds still as you were told. He stated that He had flesh. That is what His body was like--both physical and spiritual. That is what we will be like.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
No...that is not the issue.
The issue, is that you are mixing the terms of this world with the terms of the Kingdom and not rightly dividing them accordingly. They can only be joined by God, but divided by the sword of Christ until the end--neither you nor I can mix them. The temple made with hands, does not mix with the Temple that is not, as you are attempting to do to explain your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
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