When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[Timtofly]

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2 Peter 3:3-9
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.



The topic Peter is talking about is the second coming. Thats what the scoffers are saying that Jesus is slow in His promise so they doubt it

Was the earth dissolved by Noah's Flood? Why would it be dissolved by fire, then?

There was a new heaven and earth, because the Flood literally changed the geography of the earth. The same will happen at the Second Coming. All the continents will change places again forming one single continent. The mountain ranges will all change positions as well.

The Second Coming is the restoration of earth back to the original state, prior to sin.

"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

The fire of 2 Peter 3 is part of the process to burn up man's works. Peter was being generic. John gives us more specific detail. Peter was told about it. John was an eye witness to the event.

 

[Marty fox]

At that point, yes. The church was already glorified at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. The martyred from the Cross until the Second Coming were already resurrected and glorified. I know Amil do not like defining a 42 month period where Satan is given full reign of the glorious throne in Matthew 25:31. They want to conflate it with the GWT of God. This glorious throne is not even the "ones" mentioned in Revelation 20:4. Those in that verse at that Resurrection are not named, nor their precise location. Yet we know that Christ already has a glorious throne set up in Jerusalem. He just dethroned Satan from it, so Satan can be bound in the pit. If this 42 months is not literal, it will not happen at all. It is literally symbolic of nothing in prophecy, but itself. Unless you think Satan is sitting on that throne right now?

If Satan is on a throne in Jerusalem right this minute, one could pinpoint Revelation 19, 42 months from the day Satan was given authority to sit on this throne.

The point of the beheaded being raised back to life in revelation 20:4 isn’t about people literally beheaded by the beast coming back to life it’s a message that you will live even though you die for Christ.

Revelation 3:21
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne

Revelation 20:4 ties directly to revelation 3:21 and revelation 3:21 was written to a certain people within a certain church about current events happening when John penned revelation. Don’t you see that?

It’s the very same in the verses below

Revelation 2:26-27
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

The same reigning to the ones who does His will till the end of their life. This also was to a certain church and certain people alive when John penned revelation.

If it’s literally only the ones beheaded by the beast then what about other saints that die for Christ in a different way anytime or even from the beast? Do you at least see what I’m saying and I am using scriptures in revelation to prove it?

These people alive when John penned revelation receive the very same promise as the ones in revelation 20:4 and they weren’t beheaded by the beast.

Fully literal interpretation takes away from the message that the biblical writer wanted to get across to the reader.

 

[Timtofly]

I never said that we don’t reign with Him for 1000 years I said it not with Him on the earth.

We are in the thousand years now it symbolic for the church age

How do you know it is symbolic of the here and now? Why on earth now, but not on earth then? It is mentioned after the Second Coming and tribulation. Are you saying the OT never happened but was only symbolic of the first coming of Christ?

The resurrection of Christ was not a symbolic spiritual thought in the mind of some human's imagination. Why would any resurrection be merely a symbolic spiritual thought?

In John 11, did a bunch of humans gather around, and imagine Lazarus symbolically spiritually rising from the dead, or was there a literal physical resurrection?

If you claim no one has a physical body in heaven now, how can any one be reigning without a resurrection? You deny even a physical resurrection? What other kind of resurrection is there?

 

[ewq1938]

The topic Peter is talking about is the second coming.

No, he is showing that people were denying there would be a coming. That isn't evidence that what he spoke about verses later was a different coming of a certain day (not the coming of a person) in which the world would be burned so a new one can replace it.


"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

The ungodly are not destroyed at the second coming but at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ).

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The above verses is when Peter was saying the ungodly would be destroyed and it's after the second coming in both doctrines.

 

[ewq1938]

Fully literal interpretation takes away from the message that the biblical writer wanted to get across to the reader.

At least it does not add to or remove from the text. Those things carry very serious consequences. The beheaded are killed in one way only, their heads are cut off. It's a specific group that dies a specific way for refusing the mark and worship of the beast etc. That can only happen in the future 42 month Great Tribulation.

 

[Timtofly]

The point of the beheaded being raised back to life in revelation 20:4 isn’t about people literally beheaded by the beast coming back to life it’s a message that you will live even though you die for Christ.

Revelation 3:21
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne

Revelation 20:4 ties directly to revelation 3:21 and revelation 3:21 was written to a certain people within a certain church about current events happening when John penned revelation. Don’t you see that?

It’s the very same in the verses below

Revelation 2:26-27
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

The same reigning to the ones who does His will till the end of their life. This also was to a certain church and certain people alive when John penned revelation.

If it’s literally only the ones beheaded by the beast then what about other saints that die for Christ in a different way anytime or even from the beast? Do you at least see what I’m saying and I am using scriptures in revelation to prove it?

These people alive when John penned revelation receive the very same promise as the ones in revelation 20:4 and they weren’t beheaded by the beast.

Fully literal interpretation takes away from the message that the biblical writer wanted to get across to the reader.

The book of Revelation is about the Second Coming. Should we not be prepared for the Second Coming?

Are you saying only those living in the year John delivered those 7 letters to the 7 churches, that they were the only ones in all of history who needed to be prepared for the Second Coming?

If you think the mark has been in place since Genesis 3, and only some have been beheaded for not taking the mark you are missing the whole point of those 42 months mentioned in Revelation 13. You are missing the entire point of Revelation 13.

You want to take a specific resurrection for a specific people and apply it to all of Adam's offspring since Abel. That is not being prepared for the Second Coming.

 

[dad]

Name one verse in the New Testament showing that Jesus returns and steps on the earth. Jesus never spoke about it in the gospels don’t you think that He would of if it happens?

His feet will land on the mount of Olives.

Zech 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

The same place He left is where He returns.

 

[dad]

No that’s not what I said please don’t claim things that I never said I said that there is a thousand years and I believe it is symbolic for the church age

Meaningless. He only rules after He returns. So you cannot try to place the years before.

 

[dad]

The text is about Jesus being slow in His coming and people doubt it

So what? Of course there are always doubters and scoffers. That changes nothing.

 

[ewq1938]

His feet will land on the mount of Olives.

Zech 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

The same place He left is where He returns.

He actually did not leave from the Mt of olives.

 

[dad]

His feet will land on the mount of Olives? For whom? Isn't it only for the saved?

Why don't you come out and honestly state what you are trying to say? Do you believe His feet will land or not? He returns to destroy His enemies and rule the world. What does that have to do with 'only for the saved'??

 

[dad]

He actually did not leave from the Mt of olives.

"
St. Luke narrates in the Acts of the Apostles how Jesus’ disciples gathered together and asked him a question. After Jesus’ final words were spoken, “as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight” (Acts 1:9).

Shortly thereafter St. Luke mentions, “they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away” (Acts 1:12). This is the same “Mount of Olives” where Jesus experienced his “agony in the garden” before being arrested and taken into custody."
https://aleteia.org/2019/05/29/where-did-jesus-ascension-into-heaven-take-place/

 

[ewq1938]

Shortly thereafter St. Luke mentions, “they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away” (Acts 1:12).

Doesn't this show that they went to Jerusalem and the Mt after the ascension?

 

[dad]

Doesn't this show that they went to Jerusalem and the Mt after the ascension?

Well, they came back from Olivet. That seems to indicate that is where He went up. Nowhere else is mentioned. I guess we could say we don't know for sure. However, He did rise from somewhere not far from Jerusalem, so it is safe to say he will return in the same place.