When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[ewq1938]

That tells me Jesus did actually ascend from atop the Mount of Olives

No scripture says that.

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great

Bethany is the only place he ascended from.

even as those two angels testified that He would return in like manner.

Manner is not "place". Check any dictionary.

 

[Davy]

I already explained that our eternal body comes at the Rapture. Whatever spirit body believers have in heaven doesn't matter since their bodies are raised incorruptible at the Rapture. Why would this happen if they already had eternal bodies that were like Jesus'?

That's actually the old Jew's doctrine of soul sleep, and asleep in the ground, as if when we die were have awareness until resurrection. That is what many in the Old Testament times thought, but it is NOT what The New Testament shows.

Well, physical bodies are raised for believers at the Rapture. Meanwhile, did you think they were in the ground or ocean or etc still? No. We go to be with Him where He is when we die. Yet bodies are raised at the Rapture, so that is when we get our eternal body.

No, we do not put on new physical bodies, period. The idea of being raised from the ground is a metaphor, an expression. Who do you think Jesus preached The Gospel to in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 at His resurrection? Like God said, He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Here specifically is what you are not understanding.

The "spiritual body" is the "image of the heavenly", meaning it is simply the outward likeness image in the heavenly dimension. All the angels have it, so does Satan and his. It is not an eternal Life state in Christ Jesus, because the wicked are to have a 'resurrection' too (the "resurrection of damnation" per John 5:28-29 on the day of Christ's coming). What are the wicked then raised to, since they are to be resurrected too? They also will have the "spiritual body", simply because that is the BODY TYPE of the heavenly. For the earthly we have the body type of flesh for our outward likeness, being born through woman. In the heavenly, our body type will be the "spiritual body". But it's our soul which is the part that's "born again" in Jesus Christ.

However, and here's the difference between those in Christ, and the wicked. For those in Christ at His coming, "this mortal" part, meaning their soul, will be made immortal, and never able to die. For the wicked though, their souls will still be liable to die in the future "lake of fire". Apostle Paul actually taught this in the Greek of 1 Corinthians 15. The liable to die state AFTER Christ's return means still being subject to the "second death" of casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign.

No, not in any way did I do anything of the sort. See above, bodies are raised from people that have been in heaven a long time. Jesus was physical and spiritual when He rose and we will be like that. The folks in heaven now are not like that as far as I can see from the bible.
Both actually, He clarified He was not a ghost or spirit, but real. He ate food to prove it.

You keep using that word 'physical' and I don't think understand it. The "spiritual body" has a outward physical appearance or likeness, but it is not made up of flesh. It is made up of spirit. It's simply a body type of that other dimension of the heavenly.

So is that before the wrath of God, or do you not actually believe in that Rapture after all?

I do not believe in John Darby's teaching of a pre-trib rapture. Prior to his teaching that idea in a Christian Church in 1830s Great Britain, the Christian Church had always held to a post-tribulation coming of Christ and gathering of the Church. And the KJV Bible I use does not use that word 'rapture'; it uses the phrase "caught up". That rapture word has been much overused to create a pop fad. And that's all it is. It actually originates from the Latin.

Well, what do you believe? Hard to tell with the wiggling. So do you believe Jesus returns with the saints and then we rule for 1000 years or not?
On the contrary, you are confused and an accuser of saints.

Shouldn't be difficult to understand what I believe at all; all one need do is stay with the written Scriptures.

I accuse you of pushing false doctrines against God's Word, because if you actually believe in a rapture of the Church prior to the great tribulation, then you go directly against what Jesus taught in His Word. And shows you'd rather follow men instead of listen to Him. I can back that up in His Word too.

 

[Davy]

"The following question naturally ensues: do angels need to eat food like humans? Not likely, but again, the Bible doesn’t explicitly answer that. However, since angels are spirits, and do not inherently possess physical bodies, it can be deduced that they do not require physical food for sustenance. Why, then, did they eat with Lot? It’s ultimately a matter of speculation."

You are only dancing... around the Genesis 18 & 19 Scripture about the angelic eating man's food, even Christ Who was one of those "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door, and Abraham bowed and called Him Lord.

In the case of the risen Christ it is not any matter of speculation. He spelled it out.

Useless statement that proves nothing.

Says who? The eternal body being both physical and spiritual and eternal can do plenty that our physical bodies cannot do! Nowhere does the =bible mention some extra 'transfiguration' that Jesus underwent after being risen from the dead. You made that up.

Once again, you've missed relevant Scripture...

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
KJV

1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

None of those verses mention a garden or anything you posit.
Yet He left heaven to come here for us. It is better to say that wherever God is, there is heaven!

Now you reveal your vanity in telling lies, for you well know that God's Garden of Eden is shown being upon the earth in Genesis 2...

Gen 2:8-14
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV

The Hiddekel is the Tigris river. Both the Tigris and Euphrates are in modern day Iraq. A 1st grader can figure that out.

You made that up also. It does not say a garden was teleported into space! It says man could no longer go in.

Gen 3:23-24
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
KJV

That is when God removed His Garden of Eden, called Paradise per the Greek Setuagint Old Testament many early Christians used, and it is behind a symbolic veil now, protected from man, in that other dimension. This is we do not see the new Jerusalem having come down out of Heaven yet, which is to be placed UPON this earth (Revelation 21 & 22).

 

[Davy]

Well, if you are right, I was right in my assumption. I'll leave it at maybe we don't really know.

That sounds confused. At a lost what to say?

 

[Davy]

Yes we have a spiritual body when we die in heaven.

Nope. You already... have a spirit body, INSIDE your flesh body. At flesh death it merely steps out of your flesh body. That because it is a body type of the heavenly dimension. Your spirit is NOT made up of flesh material matter. Even the Jews old tradition about the soul believed that our soul was made up of material matter and dies with our flesh, only to be resurrected with the flesh in the casket, when their idea is false. No, our soul with spirit does not die... with our flesh body (Matthew 10:28). It continues back to God in the heavenly, just as Apostle Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 5. Our soul with spirit cannot be separated, but our soul with spirit can... be separated from our flesh.

We are eternal if saved. So the issue is why God raises bodies on earth also, later.

Eternal Life through Christ only happens IF we are 'born again'. Then at His coming, our 'soul' puts on "immorality". But all will have their "spiritual body" exposed on the day of His coming, including the wicked. The spiritual body does not mean automatic Salvation, because even the wicked are resurrection to the resurrection body. And what did Paul teach the kind of body the resurrection is? A "spiritual body".

My assumption is that our body in heaven is temporary (though we are eternal) until we return to earth with Him to have our former bodies raised up to meet Him (meet us and our spiritual bodies also if we already dead by then).

That idea is NOWHERE written. You are only pushing men's false pre-trib rapture theory. There is only ONE more coming of Christ that is written, and that is on the LAST DAY of this world.

The rest of what you wrote is so crazy, it doesn't bear repeating.

 

[ewq1938]

Nope. You already... have a spirit body, INSIDE your flesh body. At flesh death it merely steps out of your flesh body.

lol, no. I'd ask you to provide scripture but I already know that belief is not based on anything biblical.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection.

So, no body inside our bodies that "steps out" at death. The soul and spirit leaves the body at death and goes to either heaven or Hades.

 

[Davy]

As the commentary I posted said, we don't know.

Can't just try to default to Luke 24.

In Genesis 18, we KNOW Jesus was not born of woman yet. So who needs man's commentaries to tell us that?

Gen 18:1-8
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

3 And said, "My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, 'Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.'

7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
KJV

The two men with Jesus were then sent to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, revealing they were the "two angels" seen there. Jesus remained speaking with Abraham, with Abraham begging Him to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there were righteous found there.

Jesus was NOT in a flesh body, nor were the two angels that appeared to Lot. Yet they all ate man's food.

So what Jesus said in Luke 24 does not prove He was a new flesh body. All the other Scripture examples in The New Testament about His appearances to His disciples MUST be included to understand what type of body He was in.

Luke 24:30-31
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew Him; and He vanished out of their sight.
KJV

Luke 24:36-37
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
KJV

John 20:19
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
KJV

Those are NOT examples of a flesh body. Those are examples of a "spiritual body".

Can the "spiritual body" appear and feel like flesh? Evidently. Can it eat man's food? Evidently.

 

[Davy]

No scripture says that.

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great

Bethany is the only place he ascended from.
Manner is not "place". Check any dictionary.

The following Scripture contends with your interpretation...

Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV


Zech 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
KJV

 

[Davy]

lol, no. I'd ask you to provide scripture but I already know that belief is not based on anything biblical.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection.

So, no body inside our bodies that "steps out" at death. The soul and spirit leaves the body at death and goes to either heaven or Hades.

No need to try... and twist that 2 Corinthians 5 Scripture. Apostle Paul made it very plain.

If our outward fleshy shell were dissolved, i.e., destroyed, "we have" (PRESENT TENSE) a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Simple, if our flesh dies, right then our spirit body is REVEALED! Why right then? Because we ALREADY HAVE THAT SPIRIT BODY INSIDE OUR FLESH.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

You cannot juxtapose the two. Flesh is not spirit, nor is spirit of flesh.

Thus what your interpretation on this is, is a fleshy carnal doctrine from man's traditions, and not staying with God's Word as written.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not twisting the scripture. It plainly says the new body is in heaven not in our current bodies. You are just wrong and you have no defense so you default to attack me.

No need to try... and twist that 2 Corinthians 5 Scripture. Apostle Paul made it very plain.

If our outward fleshy shell were dissolved, i.e., destroyed, "we have" (PRESENT TENSE) a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Simple, if our flesh dies, right then our spirit body is REVEALED! Why right then? Because we ALREADY HAVE THAT SPIRIT BODY INSIDE OUR FLESH.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

You cannot juxtapose the two. Flesh is not spirit, nor is spirit of flesh.

Thus what your interpretation on this is, is a fleshy carnal doctrine from man's traditions, and not staying with God's Word as written.

 

[Oseas]

The Day of the Lord, that is the seventh and last Day in which we are living, or seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ, the millennium of Vengeance, and the millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, yeah, the LORD's Day HAS ARRIVED, and now, even in this seventh and last Day, the Old Testament and the New Testament both will pass away with a tremendous noise, as an earthquake, and the peoples shall melt with a fervent heat of the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD-as was prophesied, and now, even now, from now on, will fulfill LITERALLY , as follow:

For example Malachi 4:v.1-3, saying: Behold, the Day cometh that shall burn as an oven; (what Day? now, now, the seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day, or seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ, the millennium of Vengeance, the millennium of the RIGHTEOUS Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ determined to happens for this Day, in which we are living), and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the Day that cometh (What Day? the seventh and last Day, of course) shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch - yeah, neither root (what root? now, now, Genesis 3 shows the root), nor branches.
Yeah, the earth -the current esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Israel- and also the WORKS that are therein shall be burned up.

Get ready

But unto them which fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise -JESUS is the Sun of righteousness- with healing in his wings - two wings - the Old and New Testaments- ; and shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Get ready to tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of our feet in this seventh and last Day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Petter the Apostle also confirmed the prophecy of Malachi, saying: 2 Peter 3:v.11-12 and 7

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED / DISMANTLED, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of this (above) Day of GOD, wherein the heavens (the Old and the New Testaments) being on FIRE -GOD is a devouring FIRE- shall be DISSSOLVED/ DISMANTLED, and the elements - all things - shall melt with fervent heat?

7 For the heavens - the FIRST and SECOND celestial environments created by GOD- and the earth -the current Israel and the great city of Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt - , WHICH ARE NOW, by the same Word -the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD- are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment -the Lord's Day as above commented- and perdition of ungodly men.

Get ready

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please GOD. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, of course, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness, so if the Spirit of GOD-the Word is GOD-that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your MORTAL bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Timtofly]

Why are you bringing up ridiculous things which I never said or think? There is a difference between a physical resurrection and a spiritual resurrection. We have died and have been raised spiritually just like Paul said.

Did you see post #802?

It is ridiculous to confuse the physical resurrection with the spiritual birth. There is no spiritual resurrection. That would be coming back from the second death, the lake of fire. That is the only spiritual resurrection. I agree there is a difference. One can come back from physical death. Where in Scripture can any one come back from the Lake of Fire?

Revelation 20:4 is not a spiritual resurrection. It is a physical one, and those resurrected are immune from the Second Death in the LOF. They will never stand at the GWT. Neither will any of their offspring. Only those consumed by fire will stand before the GWT, and cast into the LOF. There is literally nothing symbolic in Revelation 20, except the dragon and we are told that is Satan, and Satan is not a symbolic thought. Satan is a literal created being. Humans are literal. Souls are literal. The physical resurrection is literal. The 1,000 years is literal. Jesus Christ is literal. Earth is literal. The reign is a literal reign.

 

[Marty fox]

It is ridiculous to confuse the physical resurrection with the spiritual birth. There is no spiritual resurrection. That would be coming back from the second death, the lake of fire. That is the only spiritual resurrection. I agree there is a difference. One can come back from physical death. Where in Scripture can any one come back from the Lake of Fire?

Revelation 20:4 is not a spiritual resurrection. It is a physical one, and those resurrected are immune from the Second Death in the LOF. They will never stand at the GWT. Neither will any of their offspring. Only those consumed by fire will stand before the GWT, and cast into the LOF. There is literally nothing symbolic in Revelation 20, except the dragon and we are told that is Satan, and Satan is not a symbolic thought. Satan is a literal created being. Humans are literal. Souls are literal. The physical resurrection is literal. The 1,000 years is literal. Jesus Christ is literal. Earth is literal. The reign is a literal reign.

No one can come back from the lake of fire but if there is no spiritual resurrection how would you explain the verse below?

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God

 

[Oseas]

Get ready

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please GOD. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, of course, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness, so if the Spirit of GOD-the Word is GOD-that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your MORTAL bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Timtofly]

You made that up also. It does not say a garden was teleported into space! It says man could no longer go in.

You must not think the New Jerusalem can descend back down, just like God removed Paradise from earth? Did God just teleport the Tree of life, or the whole Garden?

 

[dad]

No...that is not the issue.

The issue, is that you are mixing the terms of this world with the terms of the Kingdom and not rightly dividing them accordingly. They can only be joined by God, but divided by the sword of Christ until the end--neither you nor I can mix them. The temple made with hands, does not mix with the Temple that is not, as you are attempting to do to explain your misunderstanding of the scriptures.

He rules the nations. When He comes, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of God. That is not now. Obviously. Don't call others confused when you grope in the dark so openly.

 

[ewq1938]

You must not think the New Jerusalem can descend back down, just like God removed Paradise from earth? Did God just teleport the Tree of life, or the whole Garden?

The garden of Eden was not moved. It was guarded.

Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[dad]

That's actually the old Jew's doctrine of soul sleep, and asleep in the ground, as if when we die were have awareness until resurrection. That is what many in the Old Testament times thought, but it is NOT what The New Testament shows.

I never suggested any such foolishness. I said we go to be where He is when we die. Our bodies, if you notice do not.

No, we do not put on new physical bodies, period. The idea of being raised from the ground is a metaphor, an expression. Who do you think Jesus preached The Gospel to in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 at His resurrection? Like God said, He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

The dead in Christ rise first actually. If they are not in the ground where are they?

The "spiritual body" is the "image of the heavenly", meaning it is simply the outward likeness image in the heavenly dimension. All the angels have it, so does Satan and his. It is not an eternal Life state in Christ Jesus, because the wicked are to have a 'resurrection' too (the "resurrection of damnation" per John 5:28-29 on the day of Christ's coming). What are the wicked then raised to, since they are to be resurrected too? They also will have the "spiritual body", simply because that is the BODY TYPE of the heavenly. For the earthly we have the body type of flesh for our outward likeness, being born through woman. In the heavenly, our body type will be the "spiritual body". But it's our soul which is the part that's "born again" in Jesus Christ.

Yet Jesus had a physical body as well as spiritual as He clearly stated and demonstrated. We shall be like Him.

However, and here's the difference between those in Christ, and the wicked. For those in Christ at His coming, "this mortal" part, meaning their soul, will be made immortal, and never able to die.

Who says? What soul, the spirit? The body? The dead believers first are raised incorruptible and go up in the air to meet Him. Then we that are alive follow. The dead in Christ have been with Jesus in heaven till this. You understand that? Nothing mortal about them. The change is that their old dead bodies rise up, and they then have a body like Jesus.

You keep using that word 'physical' and I don't think understand it. The "spiritual body" has a outward physical appearance or likeness, but it is not made up of flesh. It is made up of spirit. It's simply a body type of that other dimension of the heavenly.

Jesus had more than that. People hugged Him, touched Him, He had wounds still, He cooked a meal and ate with them. He stated empathically that He was flesh and bone. In others words, real. Not a spook.

I do not believe in John Darby's teaching of a pre-trib rapture.

I believe in the bible teaching that we are not destined to go through the wrath of God.

Also, who cares what 'the church' taught? They changed all the time. Some taught to follow the pope, and that they could pay their way out of some hellish limbo nonsense etc. We have God's word to tell us what is what.

I accuse you of pushing false doctrines against God's Word, because if you actually believe in a rapture of the Church prior to the great tribulation, then you go directly against what Jesus taught in His Word. And shows you'd rather follow men instead of listen to Him. I can back that up in His Word too.

The Tribulation is the wrath of God. If you teach we are to go through that guess who is pushing false doctrines contrary to Scripture?

 

[dad]

You are only dancing... around the Genesis 18 & 19 Scripture about the angelic eating man's food, even Christ Who was one of those "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door, and Abraham bowed and called Him Lord.

The commentary spelled it out, it is speculation as to why or how etc. In the case of Jesus it is gospel! Clearly stated truth. He was not a spirit only.

Now you reveal your vanity in telling lies, for you well know that God's Garden of Eden is shown being upon the earth in Genesis 2...

False accusations once again. That seems to be your native tongue.

The Hiddekel is the Tigris river. Both the Tigris and Euphrates are in modern day Iraq. A 1st grader can figure that out.

Point?

That is when God removed His Garden of Eden, called Paradise per the Greek Setuagint Old Testament many early Christians used, and it is behind a symbolic veil now, protected from man, in that other dimension. This is we do not see the new Jerusalem having come down out of Heaven yet, which is to be placed UPON this earth (Revelation 21 & 22).

Man, not the garden was removed.

 

[dad]

That sounds confused. At a lost what to say?

Nothing confusing about not knowing or needing to know.