The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Cooper]

You want me to be disciplined for suggesting that men have always been saved by conversion through the blood of Jesus? That's wildly confusing. And you're the one who listed keeping God's commandments as one of Jesus's commands.

 

[BarneyFife]

I gave you a very good answer, but, you are not able to see it.

You gave no answer to the question I asked--just another example of your standard treatment of talking past people to say what you want heard.

Tho, now that you are more clearly revealed,

Yes, thank you, I am revealed as one accused falsely, by one who treats nearly everyone here with a bitter contempt that is completely foreign to the meek and lowly Savior.

i would imagine that even you will try to talk about the Cross, at some point.

I love talk of the Cross, but it is commonly given the treatment of a cheap commodity here, too often provided by those who couldn't be bothered to visit and kneel there, thus having no experiential knowledge thereof. And I don't provide it at the dare or the command of scoffers who trample underfoot the law of Christ and His Father.

You will continue to preach your self works and commandments,

And so you will continue to bear false witness against your neighbors, lest you be found keeping commandments which, according to your own reckoning, would condemn yourself as a "legalistic self-saver."

Speaking of commandments, one of your colleagues recently brought this to my attention:

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49​

.

 

[BarneyFife]

@Cooper

You want me to be disciplined for suggesting that men have always been saved by conversion through the blood of Jesus? That's wildly confusing. And you're the one who listed keeping God's commandments as one of Jesus's commands.

Well, thank you.

 

[Marymog]

Genetic fallacy ("How can any good thing come out of Nazareth?"). Why not just judge the material by its merits or lack thereof? I don't dismiss out of hand everything that originates from Catholicism.

For instance, I could just as easily have quoted from Catholic sources:

"Pope Miltiades worked diligently in a difficult time of transition. His edicts included forbidding the Christians to fast on Thursday and Sunday (the days during which the pagans kept their fasts) and directing that the Eucharist plate blessed by the bishop be carried to the various churches." -- From: Thursday of the Second Week of Advent - December 10, 2015 - Liturgical Calendar…...

Lol…..Hold on B5!! You are comparing the vague, lack of context with a personal attack (calling him a heathen) quote from your previous post which came from an anti-Catholic website (Roman Catholic tradition declares that in the time of Miltiades, bishop of Rome from A.D. 311 to 314, the heathen observed Thursdays and Sundays somewhat "as a "sacred fast." We are not specifically told just what the nature of this abstinence was.) to this more defining quote with facts in it from a Catholic website??? Just take a look at the two quotes and see how different they are when talking about the same subject. Can you not see how dishonest YOU and YOUR source are being? Be honest now…..Is there any real comparison between the two quotes you just provided???

When you do things like this it is hard to take you serious….

 

[Marymog]

So did you manage to come to the knowledge of the truth you hold without the aid of any "men?"

Dear B5,

I have made it VERY CLEAR from what men I obtain my “knowledge of truth” from. So why do you ask that question when you already know the answer? I get my truth from the men of The Church.

YOU are the one who has not made it clear from what men you get your truth from. Are you a member of the SDA denomination? Mormon? I don’t know what men you listen to and trust.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Oh, I'm just trying to alienate certain specific Catholic folk like Mary or others I've had run-ins with here, not necessarily all of 'em. But it's all in good fun.

Sometimes it takes a touch of humor and a little elbow in the ribs to get things back on track.

Now, ... where were we?

YES, the 10 Commandments!

You do know the 10 Commandments were given long before Mt. Sinai, don't you?

Which is more proof that they were not given only to the Israelites (Jews) present at that time.

Hmmmm….and what run-ins have you and I had that have hurt your feelings to the point where you think you have to “alienate” me, but not my fellow Catholics on here, that say the EXCACT SAME THINGS IS SAY?

Curious Mary

 

[BarneyFife]

Lol…..Hold on B5!! You are comparing the vague, lack of context with a personal attack (calling him a heathen) quote from your previous post which came from an anti-Catholic website (Roman Catholic tradition declares that in the time of Miltiades, bishop of Rome from A.D. 311 to 314, the heathen observed Thursdays and Sundays somewhat "as a "sacred fast." We are not specifically told just what the nature of this abstinence was.) to this more defining quote with facts in it from a Catholic website??? Just take a look at the two quotes and see how different they are when talking about the same subject. Can you not see how dishonest YOU and YOUR source are being? Be honest now…..Is there any real comparison between the two quotes you just provided???

When you do things like this it is hard to take you serious….

I realize I might have made a mistake here, Mary, but at the present, I just don't have the time to right the wrong, so I'll just have to concede the point to you and beg your forgiveness. I'll try to remember to come back to it if you wish.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Friend, do you think we will make good progress in our discussions with insults?

If lawless people dislike me for telling the truth, that's their problem to deal with, not mine. Jesus called the religious people of His day "vipers" and "children of Satan" because they played the same games with God's laws that modern antinomians do.

If antinomians don't like being told that they lack sense, then they should start accepting and practicing what is taught in the Bible instead of clinging to their lawless theology. Psa. 111:10 says the people who live by God's commandments have wisdom and possess understanding, therefore the opposite is inherently true of people who refuse to live by God's commandments.

I also suggest reading Isa. 1:3 sometime. In this passage, God says an ox had more sense than the ancient Israelites who rejected His commandments. When Jesus discussed the scriptures with the 2 people on the road to Emmaus, He called them ignorant and foolish because they failed to believe what was written in the OT.

What i do is not out of scriptural bounds, nor is it in the interest of being mean. That is biblical theology: anyone who rejects God's commandments or fails to believe the OT is ignorant and foolish. It is the scriptures that condemns antinomians for being who they are, not me.

To deny the teaching of Jesus in favour of Old Testament law is to deny the life and work of God with us, which only the anti-Christ would do.

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

50 Commands of Jesus - Practical Bible study - 15 lessons - What they mean today
.

Jesus didn't teach anything that was contrary to what Moses wrote, and He said that His followers are not to even think that it was His intention to do so:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." - Matt. 5:17-18

His words are pretty clear when He said that one stroke or letter in the Law will not stop being authoritative until all has been fulfilled, and that hasn't happened yet. The idea that Jesus contradicted the authority of Moses' writings doesn't come from the Bible.

You should really consider the profound lack of logic in your claim when you say that believing in the OT writings means denying Jesus' teachings. Nobody was a bigger believer in the authority of the OT writings than Christ, especially because He was the God that inspired those writings and commanded them to be written in the first place.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus didn't teach anything that was contrary to what Moses wrote, and He said that His followers are not to even think that it was intention to do so:
His words are pretty clear when He said that one stroke or letter in the Law will not stop being authoritative until all has been fulfilled, and that hasn't happened yet. The idea that Jesus contradicted the authority of Moses' writings doesn't come from the Bible.

You should really consider the profound lack of logic in your claim when you say that believing in the OT writings' authority means denying Jesus' teachings. Nobody was a bigger believer in the authority of the OT writings than Christ, especially because He was the God that inspired those writings and commanded them to be written in the first place.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath, and that has a bearing on the Saturday Sabbath we have just been talking about, i.e. he ignored it.
.

 

[GEN2REV]

Hmmmm….and what run-ins have you and I had that have hurt your feelings to the point where you think you have to “alienate” me, but not my fellow Catholics on here, that say the EXACT SAME THINGS IS SAY?

Nobody on the internet hurts my feelings. I was just trying to stir up some more debate about the topic of the thread. I didn't introduce the word 'alienate', I just responded to the person who did. Your name was the most recent that I'd had any exchange with.

Zealous Catholics can be an easy target for debate, but I was only stirring the pot to get more productive discussion going. The back and forth that was going on wasn't really in line with the topic of the OP.

All's well and God bless.

Do you not obey 8 of the 10 Commandments?

Catholics do adhere to idol observance more than any other denomination, do they not?

If you disagree, then you obey 9; 10 minus the Sabbath Commandment. Isn't that still hypocrisy, seeing as how you oppose Commandment Keeping?

 

[Michael S. Blanchard]

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Who are God's Children? Let's see.

God is a spirit. Those who worship Him (His Children) must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
John 4:24

Spiritual Israel are God's Children; NOT any physical/fleshly race - for "...they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:.."
Romans 9:8

Is God's Law a physical Law or a Spiritual Law?
"For we know that the Law is spiritual:..."
Romans 7:14

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, (those who do them and keep them may go to heaven.)...Ye shall not add unto (them), neither shall ye diminish (them)..., that ye might keep the Commandments of the Lord your God ..."
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

NOTE: this chapter speaks nothing of the Mosaic/Ceremonial laws. It is ONLY referring to the 10 Commandments which ARE God's Law.

"And He declared unto you ... Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on tables of stone."
Deuteronomy 4:13

And what if His Children stop obeying His Commandments?

"... the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,..."
Deuteronomy 4:27

We are living this reality today. Scattered far and wide; few and far between among the nations.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
(This next verse is PROOF POSITIVE that the Commandments are still valid to this very day.)
When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days (end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God; ) He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers (10 Commandments) which He sware unto them."
Deuteronomy 4:29-31

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

You are correct, in my view, humble as I may be, however, Israel as mentioned, are the descendants of Jacob. Who are the descendants of Jacob, who was renamed "Israel" by God. study in these books, Genesis, Dueteronomy, lay the foundations along with their prophesies for just who these descendants of Jacob, (Israel) are today. The next time we all read our bible, and read the word Israel, it means the descendants of Jacob. Who are these people? Not just Jewish. (my own opinion) May you all find the shelter of God the Almighty, in your true faith in Him who rules forever.

 

[Michael S. Blanchard]

Jesus worked on the Sabbath, and that has a bearing on the Saturday Sabbath we have just been talking about, i.e. he ignored it.
.

I kinda always thought that he went there to re sanctify the Sabbath by violently kicking out all of the "money changers", businessmen who were doing business in the temple on the Sabbath. Just off the cuff from what I have read. I could be wrong, but I will read it again later. Also after the Resurrection and Ascension, the Apostles in their books mention the continuation of the Sabbath. This is in the New Testament. God's Laws and Covenants do not change. The bible holds all the answers for me. Listen to the word...read the word...pray to The Eternal Living God... Please God bless all who read this may find your path of Salvation. Amen

 

[GEN2REV]

To deny the teaching of Jesus in favour of Old Testament law is to deny the life and work of God with us, which only the anti-Christ would do.

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

50 Commands of Jesus - Practical Bible study - 15 lessons - What they mean today
.

Great list. I kept a link.

Obeying the 10 Commandments doesn't contradict any of those commands in the least. I understand you were responding to somebody else's post, but it also seems you were stating that all those commands of Jesus are somehow being cast aside if somebody obeys the 10 Commandments.

Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[GEN2REV]

So they killed the Messiah, and people are still preaching the same message on here as those horrible people did who crucified Jesus.
.

No.

Nobody is claiming we must obey the 10 Commandments, or any commandment for that matter, in order to receive salvation.

 

[GEN2REV]

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. (Romans 10:4 KJV)
If you believe in Jesus and accept him as your Lord and Saviour from sin, why are you preaching law-keeping?

• Jesus fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the Law and the Prophets in that He brought full revelation.

• Jesus fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the Law and the Prophets in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows.

• Jesus fulfilled the moral and legal demands of the Law and the Prophets in that He fully obeyed them and He reinterpreted them in their truth.

• Jesus fulfilled the penalty of the Law and the Prophets for us by His death on the cross, taking the penalty we deserve.
.

Cooper, you obey (keep) 9 of the 10 Commandments.

Are you a hypocrite?

 

[Cassandra]

Jesus did not ignore the Sabbath, nor did He work on it.

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus did not ignore the Sabbath, nor did He work on it.

No. He did not.

He was in the Synagogue every single Sabbath His entire life to observe the Sabbath Day.
Luke 4:16

 

[mailmandan]

Of course Jesus observed the sabbath day.

Galatians 4:4 - But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.

 

[GEN2REV]

Of course Jesus observed the sabbath day.

Galatians 4:4 - But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.

We've been through this exact line of comments before in this very thread not too many pages back, dan.

Your theory doesn't line up with scripture.

If the point you're trying to make were Biblical, 1 John 2:6 wouldn't be in the Bible.

We are to live just as Jesus lived.

Jesus not only observed the 4th Commandment, to observe the 7th Day Sabbath, but He obeyed all the 10 Commandments.
John 15:10

Your translation of Galatians 4:4 is faulty.

Regardless, John tells us we are to do just exactly as Jesus did. So apparently, whatever 'Law' you believe Jesus had to obey, we too must obey.

The only thing that changed upon His death was the Ceremonial/Sacrificial Ordinances due to His perfect sacrifice to do away with all sacrifice to come.

Where is the immediate proof?

Jesus' disciples obeyed the Sabbath Commandment the very night of His crucifixion, after He had already died on the Cross.
Luke 23:54-56

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The only thing that changed upon His death was the Ceremonial/Sacrificial Ordinances due to His perfect sacrifice to do away with all sacrifice to come.

Circumcision had nothing to do with sacrifice for sin, yet it was laid aside in favor of the spiritual reality it pointed to. In the same way, and for the same reason, the sabbath command is laid aside in regard to it's required literal fulfillment in deference to the spiritual reality it points to.

I've been a Spirit-filled Christian for 34 years despite the fact that I have not ever kept the command to keep a literal sabbath day observance. It has had zero bearing on my relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. But you know what has? 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. The Spirit dries up when I don't keep that command. That is what has mattered in my relationship with God, not the literal observances of the old covenant. That's where the non-sabbath keeping church is at. It hasn't kept us from God in any way shape or form. It doesn't make or break a relationship with God. Just like literal circumcision doesn't make or break a relationship with God.